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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 24, 2011, at 17:22:43
I've been watching about ten YouTube versions of Ms. Winehouse singing "Rehab". It might be catchy with a hook, but the words are not funny. I think people have overlooked that in a tabloid driven world.
I made my husband laugh. This is what happened. After about the 12th YouTube comment that Ms Winehouse deserved everything she got and even one that said that the commentor *hoped* she was in h*ll, I posted that if there was rehab for idiocy, it would be fuller than the prison system.
I don't get this idea about being happy about h*ll. H*ll deserves an asterisk. But I admit this is an I statement, and I have been very recently radicalized.
Posted by Christ_empowered on July 24, 2011, at 19:49:41
In reply to Amy Winehouse, posted by floatingbridge on July 24, 2011, at 17:22:43
People harbor such hatred against those who stumble and fall in life. When I was a drug user (and afterwards, when I was a burned out ex-drug user), people were cruel. Vicious. Even people my age who were doing the same things I had done/was doing--the cruelty was mind-blowing. Now that I'm healthy and reasonably attractive again (thank you, retin-a), people are suddenly polite, sometimes even kind. Amy Winehouse will never get to experience this, unfortunately.
I don't know how to feel about the situation. I mean, its tragic and I don't have any contempt for Amy Winehouse, but a part of me just thinks its all so...pointless. Banal, even. Another artist dead too soon; the tabloids go wild, then there will be another victim. The cycle goes on and on...
Nice post, by the way.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 24, 2011, at 20:36:43
In reply to Amy Winehouse, posted by floatingbridge on July 24, 2011, at 17:22:43
Why the hatred I wonder? I would think it'd be prompted by something other than killing oneself with drugs. I don't get it.
Posted by hyperfocus on July 25, 2011, at 1:19:04
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse » floatingbridge, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 24, 2011, at 20:36:43
The Internet just turns people into harmless trolls. 99% of those people wouldn't think to say stuff like that in a face-to-face conversation. It's just harmless fun really. I admit I did the same thing when Vancouver had the riots after they lost the Stanley Cup.
I never really listened to Amy much when she was alive but I have since she died and it's pretty good. I love her style and the poof - it's so awesome somebody wears their hair and makeup and everything like that. I like seeing her perform. I guess she always did her own thing, had her own talent and style that she nurtured and it's sad to lose somebody like that. Especially with the manufactured oversexed crap that passes for music these days.
It is a reminder though, that you could have everything in this world, but still have depression and addiction making you feel worthless. Most people don't understand that depression has nothing to do with your circumstances.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 25, 2011, at 1:35:55
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse » floatingbridge, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 24, 2011, at 20:36:43
> Why the hatred I wonder? I would think it'd be prompted by something other than killing oneself with drugs. I don't get it.
I don't know. I haven't paid attention to the point of not even knowing what kind of rehab she sings about. Alcohol, street stuff (which I am now out of touch with except for meth which is huge here :-/), heroin?
I think she used to fight or get combative? I don't know. I
certainly know what it's like to get wicked pissed.I think Ms Winehouse was a street kid and had a messy life. It's not a crime or a sin to have a messy life.
If anyone watches 10 versions of Ms. Winehouse sing 'rehab', each one is different. Sometimes she kinda' grooves, but to me she looks deeply spooked. A young, shaky woman
with talent becomes a sensation. The pressure, I imagine, to perform and present must have been enormous. I imagine people tried to help her. I don't know. Who wants to be a f*ck up? Who wakes up and says, today I'm gonna fulfill my goals as a f*ck up?So, yeah, sg. Why the hatred? Maybe CE is right on target with her post. I had to get off YouTube because people would post a clip titled 'what's up with Amy's face.'. Holy Mackrel.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 25, 2011, at 1:49:36
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse, posted by hyperfocus on July 25, 2011, at 1:19:04
HP, we cross posted :-). Thanks for being so non-inflammatory. I can get worked up. You think it's more benign? But, I have such school damage, and people started making fun of her face....
And to say she deserved what she got? I guess my depression makes it too personal. I don't even know her, but feel sad. I am just going with the positive that the people who knew her will mourn, and there will always be 'the peanut-crunching crowd who will push in to see', as Sylvia Plath once wrote. Make sure they have lots of peanuts, (non-GMO), and keep the police tape up.
Sigh. Thanks for the reality check.
> The Internet just turns people into harmless trolls. 99% of those people wouldn't think to say stuff like that in a face-to-face conversation. It's just harmless fun really. I admit I did the same thing when Vancouver had the riots after they lost the Stanley Cup.
>
> I never really listened to Amy much when she was alive but I have since she died and it's pretty good. I love her style and the poof - it's so awesome somebody wears their hair and makeup and everything like that. I like seeing her perform. I guess she always did her own thing, had her own talent and style that she nurtured and it's sad to lose somebody like that. Especially with the manufactured oversexed crap that passes for music these days.
>
> It is a reminder though, that you could have everything in this world, but still have depression and addiction making you feel worthless. Most people don't understand that depression has nothing to do with your circumstances.
Posted by hyperfocus on July 25, 2011, at 2:06:42
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse » hyperfocus, posted by floatingbridge on July 25, 2011, at 1:49:36
lol fb if you leave the safe confines of PB and go mingle with the unwashed you'll see a heck of a lot of behavior worse than that. Any public forum is gonna play host to all kinds of hatred and stupidity - most of it from bored people safe in the anonymity of the 'net, and some of it by a bit more inspired people seeking to provoke the feelings and actions you found yourself in. I guess that's why Dr. Bob keeps such a tight rein here.
It's a jungle out there but you don't have to take it seriously if you don't want to.
Posted by Dinah on July 25, 2011, at 8:04:35
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse, posted by hyperfocus on July 25, 2011, at 1:19:04
I don't get it. I really don't.
I can't imagine anything more likely to be "face to face". At least if you're being b*tchy and gossiping with friends, you can look around and make sure you're alone. You can assess the feedback of your friends and see if you're inadvertently hurting them with comments that might strike too close to home.
On the internet, you are talking on a forum that might directly reach her family, friends, people who look like her, people with issues of addiction and mental health, people who have lost loved ones to those issues. The audience is larger and the potential for harm is larger.
I am not sure there are "harmless" trolls.
They cause harm to me, even if they hit no issue buttons with me. Hate and cruelty hurt me. They make me ashamed to be human.
If they do happen to hit my own issues, they make me feel ashamed, alone, and sometimes hopeless. Reading comments like those makes me feel despised by the world and deserving of any harm that comes my way.
The internet is just a way for people to lash out and hurt a larger number of people with a smaller chance of consequences for themselves. How is that harmless? Why do the major sites allow it to happen?
Posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2011, at 13:40:27
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse, posted by Dinah on July 25, 2011, at 8:04:35
Off topic but I see some that take med combos that could cause the same. As they take meds they chose not consulting with docs. Could have same outcome. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on July 25, 2011, at 21:50:38
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse, posted by Dinah on July 25, 2011, at 8:04:35
> On the internet, you are talking on a forum that might directly reach her family, friends, people who look like her, people with issues of addiction and mental health, people who have lost loved ones to those issues. The audience is larger and the potential for harm is larger.
>
> I am not sure there are "harmless" trolls.This interests me, Dinah.
>
> They cause harm to me, even if they hit no issue buttons with me. Hate and cruelty hurt me. They make me ashamed to be human.
>To be cruel and err is human. It's tough to be sensitive and be capable of internalizing. But even in our mistakes, humans derserve love. Elephants are complex. Left without their elders, the young males have been known to form gangs and truly bully younger elephants. But I have never heard a naturalist say it's a shame to be an elephant. Or a dog.
I am only beginning to understand the enormity of shame in all it's complexity. To even understand it's functionnwithin our species. To feel ashamed is painful. Then again, there are those who's shame function has been stunted. They just go and go and project outward.
I just think you are such an amazing thinking person, Dinah.
Again, I don't know why some sites permit such statements to be published. I stopped reading. Then I vented here. I didn't mean to provoke any painful feelings here. I forget how sensitive a group we can be.
> If they do happen to hit my own issues, they make me feel ashamed, alone, and sometimes hopeless. Reading comments like those makes me feel despised by the world and deserving of any harm that comes my way.
>
> The internet is just a way for people to lash out and hurt a larger number of people with a smaller chance of consequences for themselves. How is that harmless? Why do the major sites allow it to happen?
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 25, 2011, at 22:59:04
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse, posted by Dinah on July 25, 2011, at 8:04:35
> I don't get it. I really don't.
>
> I can't imagine anything more likely to be "face to face". At least if you're being b*tchy and gossiping with friends, you can look around and make sure you're alone. You can assess the feedback of your friends and see if you're inadvertently hurting them with comments that might strike too close to home.
>
> On the internet, you are talking on a forum that might directly reach her family, friends, people who look like her, people with issues of addiction and mental health, people who have lost loved ones to those issues. The audience is larger and the potential for harm is larger.
>
> I am not sure there are "harmless" trolls.
>
> They cause harm to me, even if they hit no issue buttons with me. Hate and cruelty hurt me. They make me ashamed to be human.
>
> If they do happen to hit my own issues, they make me feel ashamed, alone, and sometimes hopeless. Reading comments like those makes me feel despised by the world and deserving of any harm that comes my way.
>
> The internet is just a way for people to lash out and hurt a larger number of people with a smaller chance of consequences for themselves. How is that harmless? Why do the major sites allow it to happen?It's a good question Dinah.
We've seen a bit of this issue play out here.
I don't know that we've caught up yet with our technology. The internet offers greater ability to say what you otherwise (hopefully!) would not say.
a literal (blank?) screen that we can throw all our crap at.
Posted by sigismund on July 27, 2011, at 18:40:25
In reply to Amy Winehouse, posted by floatingbridge on July 24, 2011, at 17:22:43
Years ago there was a worried father here who went to the Australian Federal Police, saying that his son was into drugs and considering importing them. The AFP informed the Indonsian authorities and the son, at the age of 19, was caught with lots of heroin he was being loaded up with. He was tried and given the death penalty. Naturally his parents are devastated. This is the last outcome they wanted
Even in this situation there were people who rushed to say the usual things....sympathy is misplaced, what did he care about those dying from heroin addiction.
People just do not realise how awful they are. Many people.
Posted by sigismund on July 27, 2011, at 18:46:43
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse, posted by sigismund on July 27, 2011, at 18:40:25
The point of that is, of course, that he was caught in Indonesia, rather than Australia or, even better, somehow prevented from leaving.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 28, 2011, at 23:56:37
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse, posted by sigismund on July 27, 2011, at 18:40:25
>
> People just do not realise how awful they are. Many people.Forgive them for they know not what they do?
Posted by Phil on July 29, 2011, at 15:24:38
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse » sigismund, posted by floatingbridge on July 28, 2011, at 23:56:37
i've followed amy thru her uk forum daily for 5 years. since her death, i've seen what became a sleepy little forum welcome back 2000 people. I cried for 3 days when i found that amy died. i just had a strong connection with her as most of her fan base did. we're all wrecked.
amy was a genius and talented beyond many peoples comprehension. if you read her lyrics you know that she was more than just one of the best jazz singers in history...she was an amazing writer.
i could write a book on her and her downfall but most of it boiled down to having her first album, frank, rack up huge sales in the uk. cool
but when back to black hit big, she wasn't ready for all that comes with it.
amy was a simple girl. if it was left up to her, she would have just sung in bars in her beloved camden, had babies, and lived a simple life..ironing washing clothes. that's what she liked. that's what made it even more tragic.one thing many don't know is that amy was diagnosed years ago manic depressive. she refused treatment.
well, i'll stop here. i'm 58 y.o., when i would talk to people about amy, i see a look of confusion on their face. when i tell them i never met her but love her as my own, they are perplexed. when she died and they saw how i felt, they shut up.
there are just no words to descibe how much i, still, love amy. i'm not alone.
Posted by hyperfocus on July 29, 2011, at 15:43:23
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse, posted by Dinah on July 25, 2011, at 8:04:35
I get triggered too sometimes when I see bullying and other people ganging up on one person. But I'm more likely to get upset on a moderated forum like PB where it's intentional and deliberate, than wild and wooly public forums like Youtube. I guess after 10 years of participating in online communities I've grown a thick skin. I know it can be hard to look past the comments people make, but it takes like 5s to type out something mean and hurtful. Saying something good and meaningful takes time and effort.
You might not believe it but the dedicated trolls, hackers, etc. have their own code of ethics that they stick to. There was this troll group who raided a forum for epileptic kids and posted flashing, animated images hoping to cause seizures in the kids. That actually got a huge amount of disapproval from people on the sidelines. If you spend most of your time in front of a computer, then your popularity in high school is probably not that great. A lot of the people in these organized groups have first-hand experience with bullying and tend to avoid taking advantage of weaker people like that. Most of the organized trolling by pseudo-groups like Anonymous are directed towards orgs like Scientology or in support of WikiLeaks or people who committed suicide because of bullying. Not everybody is into this 'white-knighting' but a lot of people are.
I think some of the unkind commentary has to do with Amy Winehouse's popularity. It's just the cool thing to be counter-culture and be disparaging towards pop culture icons. If it had been Britney Spears or Mariah Carey it would have been 100x worse.
One lesson I had to learn the hard way is not to ever try to understand people who derive pleasure from hurting others. If your brain is not put together like that then you will never, ever understand. So when I see it or if it's directed towards me, I just zone out and skip over it, like TV ads. It's a real survival skill you have to learn today.
Posted by Dinah on July 29, 2011, at 19:32:15
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse, posted by Phil on July 29, 2011, at 15:24:38
((( Phil )))
When I heard the news, I thought of you. I hadn't heard about the bipolar diagnosis. It does make sense, I'm afraid.
It's good that there is an online community where you can share your feelings.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 29, 2011, at 21:12:08
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse, posted by Phil on July 29, 2011, at 15:24:38
>
> one thing many don't know is that amy was diagnosed years ago manic depressive. she refused treatment.
>
> well, i'll stop here. i'm 58 y.o., when i would talk to people about amy, i see a look of confusion on their face. when i tell them i never met her but love her as my own, they are perplexed. when she died and they saw how i felt, they shut up.Seems to me we just like and love who we do. I think folks here might understand that devotion. I'm so sorry Phil.
> there are just no words to descibe how much i, still, love
amy. i'm not alone.
I think you're in some good company in your grief. You aren't alone.
Posted by Phil on July 31, 2011, at 19:48:40
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse » Phil, posted by Dinah on July 29, 2011, at 19:32:15
hard to even know if her dx was true. probably was but everthing was all smoke and mirrors around amy. we just sorted out one story after another as they came.
it's easy now, wait till the books on her life come out.
lots of money on the table for any lowlife to collect.ps..i totally forgot that i posted this...duh
Posted by Phil on July 31, 2011, at 19:50:11
In reply to Re: Amy Winehouse » Phil, posted by floatingbridge on July 29, 2011, at 21:12:08
a special gal for sure.
This is the end of the thread.
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