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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by floatingbridge on April 23, 2011, at 23:13:15
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd » floatingbridge, posted by sleepygirl2 on April 22, 2011, at 18:06:53
Yes, thank you. A good thought, methinks.
I spoke with a friend who is a massage therapist, and she was helpful for thinking from the doctor's side--overworked, pressured for time because of insurance. She thought the word choice could be better, that odd can be found offensive and is also pretty meaningless--therefore open to over-interpreted. And that maybe my doctor would benefit by knowing that.
By the time I see her next week, my blood pressure and paranoia should be stable :D
It is sooooo difficult being a human being worth being. For me.
I always wanted to draw. My proportion is awful; then I let wrong-headed perfectionism guide me, and I shut down. I love pencil drawings. Also ink.
I try to use color and texture since my graphics ability is not strong. My son loves drawing, and I stay out of his way, only quietly hanging a picture or squirrelling away favorites before they are demolished on the floor of his room.
Hope you are having at least one episide of hijinks this weekend. Or bike-riding.
> How about "I couldn't help but notice from my records that you very clearly wanted to communicate that my psychiatric issues were significant. Can you tell my why?"
>
>
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 25, 2011, at 23:13:46
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd, posted by floatingbridge on April 23, 2011, at 23:13:15
I wouldn't necessarily take it as an insult. In your medical chart, the doctor is supposed to describe their interactions with you like a scientist would, and it's not supposed to be a place to make value judgments about your personality. So "odd" may just be a way of hinting at possible psychiatric issues, while not trying to diagnose them since psych is not her specialty. If she is really just airing her judgments of you in the chart, she is not acting like a good doctor.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 26, 2011, at 10:16:09
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd, posted by mtdewcmu on April 25, 2011, at 23:13:46
Yes, MtDew, methinks you're right. The charge seems to have exhausted itself. I'll just ask her about it, as Dinah, sleepygirl and my rl friend suggested. The value of talking to people I care enough about has been pointed out to me, and it is a good act of stabilization and normalization for me. I become triggered soooo quickly. Luckily I don't see her until next week. Luckily, there are friends here at babble, too.
Thanks!
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 26, 2011, at 12:18:49
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd » mtdewcmu, posted by floatingbridge on April 26, 2011, at 10:16:09
At one point when I was taking classes at the local community college, I asked my then-pdoc to provide a record of my psych issues that I could give to the school, because I was struggling. One of the diagnoses listed was "hypochondriac." I have no clue where that came from, because I never said I lived in fear of a deadly disease. I can only think that since I described having so many psych problems, he thought I must be exaggerating. But hypochondria doesn't even make sense in that context. That really made me question what I was doing with him.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 26, 2011, at 12:41:00
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd » floatingbridge, posted by mtdewcmu on April 26, 2011, at 12:18:49
Wow. I certainly would have felt bruised reading that. Ouch!
How very shallow and as you pointed out, inaccurate. Maybe anxiety? Being concerned over one's mental/physical health is absolutely different than deciding one has a terminal illness.
I'm thinking that it's such an blindspot. If someone is anxious, let's say, over psychological symptoms or mood issues or whatever, that these issues are expressed in our bodies as sensations to more or lesser extents. Anxiety isn't just thought habits. Our heads don't just sit
on top of our bodies. There can be endocrine issues. Or whatever. How long have I, in my case, just not felt *right*?Hoo-boy. Sorry MtDew.
How frustrating to even present to a doctor. Then again, how frustrating to be a caring doctor.
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 26, 2011, at 22:02:09
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd » mtdewcmu, posted by floatingbridge on April 26, 2011, at 12:41:00
I didn't really let it bother me much at the time, because I figured that pdoc was from the bottom of the barrel. I saw him at a clinic that catered to low-income people receiving subsidies from the government. Not that a great, idealistic doctor could not have worked at such a clinic, but more often than not you get what you pay for.
Posted by sigismund on April 27, 2011, at 13:37:20
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd » floatingbridge, posted by mtdewcmu on April 26, 2011, at 12:18:49
I once said the the psychiatrist who prescribed me methadone that I was going to start drinking green tea and taking supplements and attending to my health parametres and he told me 'That is disgusting. You are as healthy as a horse.'
Another doctor I really fumbled to tell what it was. I said 'I just don't feel right.' He paused before mounting and then said 'You are wallowing' etc etc and so on and so forth.I can not recall a profession so given to rudeness and snap judgments. It must be the power.
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 27, 2011, at 22:32:24
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd, posted by sigismund on April 27, 2011, at 13:37:20
> I can not recall a profession so given to rudeness and snap judgments. It must be the power.
Who knows what drives somebody to become a psychiatrist. If you're, say, an endocrinologist, you can prescribe drugs rationally and watch the numbers go up or down, giving you objective feedback on your success or failure to treat the disease. Psychiatry is endless shades of gray. Economics is called the dismal science. Economics is not unlike psychiatry. My introductory economics professor in college claimed that the most rational way to distribute adopted children would be to sell them to the highest bidder. He claimed that it was only squeamishness that prevented us from doing what was optimal. You must have a screw loose if you can't see what would be the outcome of such a system. But I'm sure you would have a hard time convincing many economists.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 28, 2011, at 2:05:06
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd, posted by sigismund on April 27, 2011, at 13:37:20
Hi sigi :)
Ah, yes, wallowing. God forbid, not that that was what you were doing. Good for pigs, but some don't feel it carries over to humans. We just eat the pigs.
When I had a severe reaction during my c-section (like causing ptsd though I didn't know it then) the frickin surgeon, whom I had not had a grudge--I mean my son was healthy with an apgar of 9, laughed, yes laughed and waved her hand when I asked her about my experience of feeling like a trapped animal and panicking. I felt I knew the awful truth about how drugs could be used evilly to dismantle a person, that's how harrowing my reaction was. They had to knock me out.
I didn't tell her about my thoughts about cracking under torture--I have enough
sense. But she really laughed out loud (not lol) and said, "oh people imagine such silly things under surgery." I felt incredible umbrage. I realized right then that I hated her.I didn't get the childbirth ptsd thing for
ummm, maybe five years. Wow. That's a whole babyhood. :(
Posted by sigismund on April 28, 2011, at 2:35:24
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd » sigismund, posted by mtdewcmu on April 27, 2011, at 22:32:24
> My introductory economics professor in college claimed that the most rational way to distribute adopted children would be to sell them to the highest bidder. He claimed that it was only squeamishness that prevented us from doing what was optimal.
I suppose he was right. Thank God for squeamishness. This is from the same people who believe that the more choice you have the happier you are. "Voltaire's Bastards" may have been about this. I didn't feel right when I read it, so I'm not sure.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 28, 2011, at 5:03:48
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd, posted by sigismund on April 28, 2011, at 2:35:24
So, after a brisk round trip to the local ER (all's well), I feel compelled to mention the excellent care we received by all the staff and the er doctor himself.
Maybe ER docs are of a different stripe?
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 28, 2011, at 12:19:47
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd, posted by sigismund on April 28, 2011, at 2:35:24
> > My introductory economics professor in college claimed that the most rational way to distribute adopted children would be to sell them to the highest bidder. He claimed that it was only squeamishness that prevented us from doing what was optimal.
>
> I suppose he was right. Thank God for squeamishness. This is from the same people who believe that the more choice you have the happier you are. "Voltaire's Bastards" may have been about this. I didn't feel right when I read it, so I'm not sure.I read the two editorial reviews of that book. It looks like one where the pleasure of reading it comes more from the clever style (it's written by a novelist) than the clarity of the arguments. But I sort of went off on a tangent when I wrote that post, as my Dexedrine was winding down. Now that my Dexedrine is going strong, I remember a point I wanted to make.
If you think about the life trajectory that leads someone to graduate from medical school, and successfully complete a residency, there can't be much pain and failure involved. For the most part, you can't have gone through depression in college and nearly flunked out, and med school itself is a pressure cooker that drives some previously-sane people to become suicidal, so if you manage to get through it all, you must have had a pretty clean bill of mental health, and a pretty charmed life, all things considered. So mental anguish is something theoretical to them, and they're not going to be able to relate. So it shouldn't be altogether surprising when they make a comment that shows that they can't relate.
And then you add to that the peculiar nature of psychiatry as a specialty, where you have to sort of suspend disbelief that it's not a bunch of unscientific voodoo...
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 28, 2011, at 12:40:53
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd » sigismund, posted by floatingbridge on April 28, 2011, at 2:05:06
> When I had a severe reaction during my c-section (like causing ptsd though I didn't know it then) the frickin surgeon, whom I had not had a grudge--I mean my son was healthy with an apgar of 9, laughed, yes laughed and waved her hand when I asked her about my experience of feeling like a trapped animal and panicking. I felt I knew the awful truth about how drugs could be used evilly to dismantle a person, that's how harrowing my reaction was. They had to knock me out.
>
> I didn't tell her about my thoughts about cracking under torture--I have enough
> sense. But she really laughed out loud (not lol) and said, "oh people imagine such silly things under surgery." I felt incredible umbrage. I realized right then that I hated her.That is interesting that you may have experienced PTSD from having a c-section. I witnessed a c-section in nursing school, but the book never mentioned PTSD as a complication. But I could totally see it as plausible, especially when added to post-partum depression/psychosis.
Doctors are a different breed. (See my other reply to sigismund.) But the surgeon was probably not the right person to talk to about your experience. She was probably thinking about what a good job she did sewing up your uterus, and didn't want to hear criticism about things outside her control. The anaesthesiologist might have taken it seriously, as it's more germane to their specialty. Being able to remain conscious during the procedure is considered a good thing, but it could very well carry a risk of PTSD.
I worked in a hospital for a few years on the nursing staff, and as much as I hate to say it, patients whose records carried a psychiatric diagnosis were always harder to work with. They tended to be moodier and responded to things differently than the average patient. They had trouble with things that most patients didn't, and they were difficult to please. You have to have some sympathy for the medical staff.
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 28, 2011, at 12:44:19
In reply to exception: some er doctors, posted by floatingbridge on April 28, 2011, at 5:03:48
> So, after a brisk round trip to the local ER (all's well), I feel compelled to mention the excellent care we received by all the staff and the er doctor himself.
>
> Maybe ER docs are of a different stripe?I'm glad you had a better experience there. I'm sure that ER doctors have a different mindset than surgeons. People don't become surgeons to deal with feelings, but defusing a crisis is part of emergency medicine.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 28, 2011, at 13:33:27
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd » floatingbridge, posted by mtdewcmu on April 28, 2011, at 12:40:53
I wish I had been put under. I had no idea.
I do hear what your saying about context and the anesthetist. But could it have killed her to just be serious and say something like, well, yes that happens to some patients because of a reaction to anesthesia? Instead that I *imagined* it.
I was a milder little lambkin back then.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 28, 2011, at 14:53:30
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd, posted by sigismund on April 28, 2011, at 2:35:24
So, after a brisk round trip to the local ER (all's well), I feel compelled to mention the excellent care we received by all the staff and the er doctor himself.
Maybe ER docs are of a different stripe?
Posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2011, at 19:36:41
In reply to exception: some er doctors, posted by floatingbridge on April 28, 2011, at 14:53:30
I have found that different fields of doctors are different. Surgical doctors known for bad tempers. But usually the Labor & Delivery both docs and nurses are great. I cried when Son born and forced the ob-gyn to hold him up and spank him and he laughed but did it as he my Son wasn't crying. But apgar 9 also. Now the pdocs I worked with were very nice inpatient to the staff but did treat patients in different ways depending on their diagnosis. This is my personal observation only. Love Phillipa ps neurosurgeons the worst in my opinion for bedside manner.
Posted by Dinah on April 28, 2011, at 20:23:20
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd » floatingbridge, posted by mtdewcmu on April 28, 2011, at 12:40:53
> I worked in a hospital for a few years on the nursing staff, and as much as I hate to say it, patients whose records carried a psychiatric diagnosis were always harder to work with. They tended to be moodier and responded to things differently than the average patient. They had trouble with things that most patients didn't, and they were difficult to please. You have to have some sympathy for the medical staff.
You'd think the medical staff would realize that just as all legs don't work the same, all minds don't work the same. And accept that working with people who respond differently to the same stimulus, whether with legs or with minds, are part of their job. The thing they trained to deal with. The variability and dysfunction of the body. The brain is part of the body.
They knocked me out as soon as my son was born C-Section. I had the shakes. I also could feel the knife after I had been anaesthetized, and proved it by telling the doctor where it was as she traced it (without cutting) on my abdomen. She fussed at anaesthesiologist, but I don't know that it was his fault. It wasn't my fault either. People react differently to things.
The shot to induce labor didn't work on me either...
Posted by Tabitha on April 29, 2011, at 1:26:11
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd » floatingbridge, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2011, at 7:12:11
> I've decided, most of the time at least, that odd isn't so bad. I think Tabitha once reframed it for me as "quirky", which sounds so much better. Somehow what she said stuck with me, and made me feel much better about it.:-)
Posted by floatingbridge on April 29, 2011, at 10:41:47
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd, posted by Dinah on April 28, 2011, at 20:23:20
Dinah, so you know these things happen much more often than people realize. I'm sorry you had that experience. I kept my experience to myself :(
When you say you could feel the knife, are you saying during the entire procedure? I guess I don't understand. It sounds dreadful.
In my case, I was numb, but felt indescribably terrified once the operation commenced and the second anesthesia was in my system. I literally held on until my son was born, and he was o.k. Then the shakes came on so hard. There are more details, but it was finally a nurse who asked the doctors to help me. That's when they put me out.
You sound like you've been able to contextualize or process your birthing experience. I hope so. I now suspect that I had a latent ptsd before, (you know, cumulative crummy events), and that childbirth kicked it in. (I'm looking for a therapist.)
Anyone can Google childbirth and ptsd. (Not including your experience Dinah, in with ptsd. You speak well enough for yourself. An awful experience does not automatically mean ptsd.) There are now a zillion hits. A few ridicule, but for the most part, it's growing common knowledge. Wish my surgeon who also saw patients as ob/gyn had been
apprised of this. She could have just given me a referral. I wasn't asking her to hold my hand. Intellectual acknowledgment can go a long way.Thanks, Dinah.
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 29, 2011, at 11:56:48
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd, posted by Dinah on April 28, 2011, at 20:23:20
> You'd think the medical staff would realize that just as all legs don't work the same, all minds don't work the same. And accept that working with people who respond differently to the same stimulus, whether with legs or with minds, are part of their job. The thing they trained to deal with. The variability and dysfunction of the body. The brain is part of the body.
>Nurses, at least, are well trained to accept patients' differences. I don't know what is taught in med school. But you're given enough patients to have your hands full even on a good day. Even so, it's usually the doctors that say dumb stuff.
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 29, 2011, at 14:19:30
In reply to is pleasant/but odd, posted by floatingbridge on April 21, 2011, at 18:18:46
> That's what my gp wrote as my psychiatric objective.
>
> Besides normal mood and affect.
>Taking another look, it's peculiar that the doctor wrote "odd" and at the same time "normal mood and affect." It makes you wonder what was odd if mood and affect were normal. Seems a little sloppy. But then, doctors get to do what they want, with rarely anyone looking over their shoulder. The only recourse is the courts.
Posted by Dinah on April 29, 2011, at 18:01:11
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd » Dinah, posted by floatingbridge on April 29, 2011, at 10:41:47
No, no. Nothing that bad. It's just that after the anaesthesiologist said I was good to go, she did something and I felt it. She was skeptical, I think, so traced something on my skin, and asked where it was. I was able to tell her. At which point she fussed at the anaesthesiologist. Before she actually cut, I was numb. Thank heavens.
The shaking was purely physiological I think. I've heard it can be a side effect. As soon as my son was safely out, they put me totally under. None of those beautiful post Caesarian bonding moments. It was just as well, I think, as I was vibrating too hard to bond.
I wasn't really traumatized by it. I remember all of it, but not in a really upset sort of way. I remember being traumatized more by waking up in the dark afterward with no one nearby, speaking with no response, and thinking (with all that lovely post birth hormonal insanity) that now I was no longer carrying a baby, I wasn't important enough for anyone to bother with. (The nurse showed up a few minutes later. Seemed like eons at the time, but I'm sure it wasn't really.)
The baby blues hit, then postpartum depression. Now that was miserable.
But I can see where it could be traumatizing, depending on how the anaesthetic affected you. If you were aware but unable really to interact with others, it could take on a nightmarish cast. Especially if it somehow reminded you of another experience.
Posted by Dinah on April 29, 2011, at 18:01:40
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd » Dinah, posted by Tabitha on April 29, 2011, at 1:26:11
Thank you again.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 30, 2011, at 19:25:52
In reply to Re: is pleasant/but odd » floatingbridge, posted by Dinah on April 29, 2011, at 18:01:11
Whew.... And good!
(Your clarification means alot to a trauma queen.)
> No, no. Nothing that bad. It's just that after the anaesthesiologist said I was good to go, she did something and I felt it. She was skeptical, I think, so traced something on my skin, and asked where it was. I was able to tell her. At which point she fussed at the anaesthesiologist. Before she actually cut, I was numb. Thank heavens.
>
> The shaking was purely physiological I think. I've heard it can be a side effect. As soon as my son was safely out, they put me totally under. None of those beautiful post Caesarian bonding moments. It was just as well, I think, as I was vibrating too hard to bond.
>
> I wasn't really traumatized by it. I remember all of it, but not in a really upset sort of way. I remember being traumatized more by waking up in the dark afterward with no one nearby, speaking with no response, and thinking (with all that lovely post birth hormonal insanity) that now I was no longer carrying a baby, I wasn't important enough for anyone to bother with. (The nurse showed up a few minutes later. Seemed like eons at the time, but I'm sure it wasn't really.)
>
> The baby blues hit, then postpartum depression. Now that was miserable.
>
> But I can see where it could be traumatizing, depending on how the anaesthetic affected you. If you were aware but unable really to interact with others, it could take on a nightmarish cast. Especially if it somehow reminded you of another experience.
This is the end of the thread.
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