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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Quintal on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:19
Why would a child pick up a fork in their right hand and a knife with their left?
Q
Posted by cactus on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:20
In reply to Left, Right and Centre?, posted by Quintal on October 6, 2007, at 19:14:47
> Why would a child pick up a fork in their right hand and a knife with their left?
>
> Qbecause they are told to
Posted by Quintal on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:20
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Quintal, posted by cactus on October 6, 2007, at 20:09:15
Who would tell a child to use a knife and fork the wrong way around? And why? Could the selection be instinctive in some way?
Q
Posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:20
In reply to Left, Right and Centre?, posted by Quintal on October 6, 2007, at 19:14:47
i would.. did.. still do
i pick them up and have to switch them around to use them. picking up the fork with my right hand seems the natural choice.. i always use a fork, but only use a fork in the left hand when using a knife in the right.
Posted by Quintal on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:20
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Quintal, posted by Dory on October 6, 2007, at 20:45:02
I used to get told off at school for actually using them the wrong way around, even when cutting. I don't understand why I did that, but eventually I was converted and started doing it the 'right' way.
Do you often have trouble telling left from right?
Q
Posted by cactus on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:20
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Dory, posted by Quintal on October 6, 2007, at 21:07:37
Do you often have trouble telling left from right?
Q
I do, during my driving test, many years ago, I kept turing in the opposite direction that my testing instructor was directing me towards
Posted by Phillipa on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:21
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Quintal, posted by cactus on October 6, 2007, at 21:27:41
Maybe the person is left handed so does things the opposite way like using a baseball bat. Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:21
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Quintal, posted by cactus on October 6, 2007, at 21:27:41
I did the same thing, and was told off very harshly *LEFT!!!*, and that look they give you... I've felt that way most of my life. But I'm not stupid, so why do I that? I have to stop and think about it, rationally, logically, so this is my left hand, so that is on the left and that thing over there must be on my left because it's on the same side. I don't know it intuitively. That's strange, because I'm a very intuitive person.
I remember a book I read about this a while ago "Right Hand, Left Hand". All about symmetry and asymmetry. I've nearly forgotten all of it, but there are some interesting reviews: "On A rather deep review of the left-handedness of amino acids and why genes might make us more "left" than right" are offset by two frivilous and fun chapters about left-handed facts and figures such as Da Vinci's mirror-writing and the left-handedness of Muppets."
I'm starting to wonder if I could be a converted left-hander. It seems a bit of a stretch though. One clue is that my mother always claimed to be ambidextrous. My mother's claims are best treated with a pinch of salt, so from reading the literature it seems much more likely that she was a converted left-hander, since true ambidexterity is very rare, but left-handers often learn to use their right hand. Another clue is that I hold my pen in a really weird way!!! People laughed at me struggling away there at school, can't even hold a pen right. The more I think about it, the more it seems as though I was holding it with my non-dominant hand. I hold my pen in the right hand in the same way as you'd expect a right-hander to hold a pen with their left hand - they'd struggle, and even if they'd come to depend on it, it might still look awkward. I once saw (co-incidentally) my GP holding her pen the same way, and I had to check myself from pointing it out to her. I thought OMG, that's what I do! Why are you struggling like that?!?!
Surely if I was left-handed I'd have some memory of it? I do use my left hand - for doing things on the left side of my body, and sometimes on the right too, if it's easier for my left hand to reach it, but it's definitely not dominant now.
Another possible 'clue' is that my mother seemed to be hypervigilant for inherent defects. I know that might sound odd, and it is odd, but there may be an explanation for it. She scrutinized my friend so closely that she noticed a 'lazy eye' developing, even before her mother did. My friend was promptly shipped off to the doctor and the lazy eye was retrained, and mother was highly praised for her vigilance. I wonder why she scrutinized people so closely for flaws? Maybe there was some 'defect' in herself that she felt had to corrected? I imagine if that was so, she'd be very alert to the possibility of that defect appearing in her offspring. If it did appear, knowing my mother she would set her considerable willpower to the purpose of controlling and containing it. She did this with my fallen arches too. Now, even as an adult I can stand on my tippee-toes like a ballerina, such was her proficiency in 'motivating me' to do my daily exercises. I don't remember being flat-footed either, but I definitely was. Also, I remember little of the exercises, but their effect still remains.
Another red herring is that converted left-handers are more likely to use both hemispheres of the brain in almost equal amounts, and most tests do indeed show that I use both my hemispheres very close to 50/50, with a slight dominance to the right.
This article has some interesting info on the incidence of mental disturbance among converted left-handers. Apparently it's very common:
__________________________________________________Consequences of Converting Handedness. The handedness of a human being is an expression of an inborn, innate lateralization of the cerebral hemispheres where one side dominates. In the neural system, the tracts are "crossed". Thus, a dominant right cerebral hemisphere results in a dominant left hand and a dominance of the left cerebral hemisphere is responsible for right-handedness [18].
Converting handedness, whether it be from a dominant left hand to a non-dominant right or the reverse, (especially during writing) does not result in a change in cerebral dominance but rather a multifaceted cerebral disturbance or damage. This functional cerebral damage (dysfunction, blockage, and inhibition of brain functioning) can then be manifest in the following primary disorders: disturbances in memory for all three areas of information processing (encoding, storage, and recall); difficulty in concentration (early fatigue); difficulty in reading and spelling (legasthenic problems); spatial disorientation (e.g. confusion of left and right); speech problems ranging from stammering to stuttering; fine motor disturbances evident in writing and other activities requiring precision.
The primary consequences can then go on and transform into secondary consequences: feelings of inferiority; shyness; introversion; overcompensation; defiance to belligerence; braggadocio; provocative behavior; bed-wetting; nail-biting; emotional problems that can last into adulthood with neurotic and/or psychosomatic symptomology; and personality disturbances [ 3,4,7,8,9,11,14] .
Cerebral disturbances. The search for the second factor began with the search for the commonalities in the medical histories of the persons in the small heterogeneous "intermediary group". Very quickly, problems during pregnancy and birth, as well as difficulties in early childhood were found. In addition, symptoms were found that are often subsumed today under the following terms: MCD - Minimal Cerebral Dysfunction; POS - early childhood Psycho-Organic Syndrome, the foremost term used in Switzerland today; early childhood brain damage; and early childhood exogenous psychological syndrome. (Many of these disturbances are listed in the catalogue, International Classification of Diseases [ 5] . See Chapter V "Diseases in Childhood and Youth"). In children it has been observed that frequently partial disturbances in performance are related to perinatal brain damage (from the sixth month of pregnancy to the end of the first year) and a temporary interruption of the oxygen supply to the brain [ 1] .
These cerebral disorders are in part very similar and are, in fact, often identical to the consequences of converting handedness. Without the necessary knowledge, it is almost impossible to distinguish one from another. The problematic lies in the differential diagnostic method.
http://www.linkshaender-beratung.de/english/Ambidextrous.htm
__________________________________________________I'm finding this all very interesting, but it's not enough to convince me. There is probably something else I'm missing. There are a few questions I need to ask my dad tomorrow anyway.
Q
P.S. Can you read upside down writing almost as easily as the 'right' way up?
Posted by Phillipa on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:21
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre?, posted by Quintal on October 6, 2007, at 22:29:36
My oldest Daughter is 40 now ambidextrous. All sports left handed other things right and if VP of a trust company in a huge Bank. So it surely hasn't hampered her in the least. I can pick up things with my toes. Don't know what that has to do with it but added it. Phillipa ps Aren't I talented?
Posted by Quintal on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:21
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre?, posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2007, at 22:38:17
>I can pick up things with my toes. Don't know what that has to do with it but added it. Phillipa ps Aren't I talented?
Oh Phillipa!!! My mother and I used to have competitions using our feet as 'hands', seeing what the smallest object we could pick. It was one of our games. I sometimes knock the light switch off with them if my hands are full. Are you double-jointed too? My cousin once got her head stuck between her legs during a gymnastics lesson, and had to be professionally untied.
>All sports left handed other things right and if VP of a trust company in a huge Bank.
You know I was just considering my career path earlier tonight. It's time to get a job, or go back in to education at least before I turn into a petty criminal, or something of that ilk. I remembered my mother's ambition was to be the managing director of the company she worked for. This was before she was disabled. She often referred to me as 'an extension of myself' and I've often wondered what she was aiming me for in all this grooming; and managing director was probably it. I don't think pure sciences have enough humanity in them to engage me for long. I tend to get bored and restless. Business might be a better option. Perhaps the managing director of a pharmaceutical company? Well it's something to consider, and something to aim for. Does Servier have any posts going in the UK? lol
Q
Posted by RealMe on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:21
In reply to Left, Right and Centre?, posted by Quintal on October 6, 2007, at 19:14:47
Is this something that has come up in your therapy and is bothering you????
RealMe
Posted by Quintal on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:21
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre - in therapy?? » Quintal, posted by RealMe on October 6, 2007, at 23:13:05
Well you could say that yes.
Q
Posted by Quintal on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:22
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre?, posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2007, at 22:38:17
P.S. Have you ever tried writing with your left foot?! It's fun.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:22
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on October 6, 2007, at 23:10:27
Yup double jointed too thought I might have that autoimmune double jointed disease as can bend my thumbs back to touch my wrists can you? Manage a drug company? Do I get free meds and shipping if you not only manage but own the company. Maybe buy servier? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:22
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on October 6, 2007, at 23:20:30
I heard of a person who could beat that but can't say it supposedly had pics of it. His wife. Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:22
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2007, at 23:24:01
Yup, rheumatoid runs in my family, and yes I can bend my thumbs back to touch the wrists. And thirdly, yes you could have free meds and shipping if you were in hardship, if I had any control over it my drug company would have a compassionate access policy.
Q
Posted by Quintal on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:22
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2007, at 23:26:13
I just remembered another incident! Waiting in line to have our BCG injections, the school nurse told us to roll up our left sleeve in preparation. Of course I rolled up my right sleeve, and the nurse, spotting this potential weakness, exploited it to full effect in front of my peers. Oh how they laughed! What an idiot! Can't tell his left arm from his right by the age of 12!!! There have probably been more incidents like this over the years, I've just forgotten them.
Q
Posted by RealMe on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:23
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre - in therapy?? » RealMe, posted by Quintal on October 6, 2007, at 23:16:47
I'm sorry, but I don't see the connection with therapy or thoughts or feelings related to therapy or to therapist. Perhaps you can enlighten me???
RealMe
Posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:23
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Dory, posted by Quintal on October 6, 2007, at 21:07:37
> I used to get told off at school for actually using them the wrong way around, even when cutting. I don't understand why I did that, but eventually I was converted and started doing it the 'right' way.
>
> Do you often have trouble telling left from right?
>
> Qno, not at all. but oddly, i am left-eye dominant. Hold up your thumb so as to block something from your view... now, without moving your thumb, close one eye, then try the other eye... which eye reveals the object and which eye "hides" it? Your brain uses the information from one eye preferentially over that from the other.
useless trivia but there is my contribution
Posted by Phillipa on October 7, 2007, at 12:59:14
In reply to I'm sorry; don't see the connection with Therapy » Quintal, posted by RealMe on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:23
This is now social board. Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on October 7, 2007, at 17:38:16
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Quintal, posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:23
That's interesting Dory. I tried blocking a word out with my thumb, it depends on the position of course but, at intermediate distance I could see a little bit of each end of the word depending on which eye I used. At close range I couldn't see the word with either eye. Is there a name for this test? I'm curious what it means.
Q
Posted by Quintal on October 7, 2007, at 21:07:28
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Quintal, posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 9:16:23
I'm not sure I'm doing it right. I think I was holding my thumb too close to the screen the first time. I've just done it another way, the first time I held it so my thumb was completely blocking the word as a solid object, but I found a difference when I brought the thumb nearer to my eye. My thumb looked transparent, I could see straight through it - is this how it's supposed to be? If I closed my right eye at this point I could still see the word, but if I closed my left eye it more or less blocked it. So this would suggest I'm left eye dominant?
Q
Posted by Dory on October 8, 2007, at 0:37:26
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Dory, posted by Quintal on October 7, 2007, at 21:07:28
i'm sorry.. i should have been more clear. Roughly arm's length.. so hold your arm out a ways.. it doesn't need to be all the way necessarily. It's not really a precise thing, it just gives you an idea of which eye is dominant. Another way to try this is with binoculars... line up an image and then try closing each eye as before and see which image is closest to the one you see with both eyes. i suppose that is a better explanation of the other test too.. the image closest to what you see with both eyes is the dominant one.
the result doesn't really mean much of anything i don't think... other than it plays a factor in how you physically view things.. and it allows you to see an illusion your mind plays on you.. the myth that we see things equally from both eyes.
i'm right-handed, but left eye dominant.. don't know what that means.. maybe i will stab my left eye with a fork in my right hand?
Posted by cactus on October 8, 2007, at 4:47:58
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Dory, posted by Quintal on October 7, 2007, at 21:07:28
P.S. Can you read upside down writing almost as easily as the 'right' way up?
I can sometimes and I'm left handed, it's like doing cryptic crosswords, somedays I can't do them for sh*t and other days I get them out, my brain weird
Posted by Quintal on October 8, 2007, at 9:46:08
In reply to Re: Left, Right and Centre? » Quintal, posted by Dory on October 8, 2007, at 0:37:26
My results vary quite a lot depending on the distance my thumb is. Yes, I know eye dominance has little bearing on handedness. I suppose I'd need to be examined by a professional to assess it objectively - in fact I do have the results of my eye test lying around somewhere, and I think that would be a routine part of the test wouldn't it? I'll have a look and see.
Q
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