![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cecilia on October 6, 2006, at 5:07:56
Anyone see the Oprah show on suicide survivors? Interspersed with commercials for Cymbalta, they interviewed 3 people. The 1st, (after being helpfully told by her mother to snap out of her depression), tried to jump off a bridge but was pulled back and was ok. The 2nd and 3rd had severe damage from their attempts, one no legs, the other blind and with a severely disfigured face. But all 3 claimed to be so happy now to be alive. (The ones with horrible injuries had "gotten religion"). OK, I know the intent of the show was good. But it just felt so patronizing to those of us who have been depressed our whole lives. Get help, you'll be happy, happy , happy. They don't interview the people who have tried everything and are still depressed. Cecilia
Posted by alexandra_k on October 6, 2006, at 9:35:55
In reply to Oprah show on Suicide, posted by cecilia on October 6, 2006, at 5:07:56
aka take cymbalata and you will be happy happy happy!
or once the advertising gets introduced to babble:
happiness is in a colon clense, didn't you know?
Posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2006, at 10:16:57
In reply to Re: Oprah show on Suicide, posted by alexandra_k on October 6, 2006, at 9:35:55
Yup meds make it all better. Love Phillipa
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 6, 2006, at 12:42:06
In reply to Re: Oprah show on Suicide, posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2006, at 10:16:57
I can't believe that in America there are drug adverts... on TV?!?
Thats crazy, particulary during a show like that Oprah one on suicide. I wonder how much the makers of Cymbalta paid for the advertising time... hundreds of thousands at least. At least.
I bet they're all happy people riding bicycles in the sunshine, or I don't know. I would love to see one, I wouldn't be able to believe my eyes! I would probably be laughing with irony. The drug companies should be made to show real people who have been on the drugs for a good few months...and see if then they're all smiley and riding bicycles in the sunshine...
We have no adverts for drugs whatsoever in Europe, except for ones you can buy if you've got a cold or headache ones, and they're pretty uncommon.
I've never ever seen a TV commerical for a pysch drug. But like, whats the point? I don't really understand, because clearly if you're needing Cymbalta, you're under the treatment of a doctor, who should be completely impartial to the different makes of drugs.... they should be selecting them on the basis of the 'chemical' benefits to the patients, not because the patient said they saw an advert for Cymbalata.
Oh and I completely agree, I hate those shows, all the people are completely happy ever after. They don't really show the real face of depression, as in its a constant battle for many.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 13:00:30
In reply to Re: Oprah show on Suicide, posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 6, 2006, at 12:42:06
> I can't believe that in America there are drug adverts... on TV?!?
Yeah. It is crazy, it's controversial, it's got a lot of people saying it's dangerous -- I'm pretty sure I think it's dangerous, too. It's called "Direct to Consumer" or DTC advertising.
>
> I bet they're all happy people riding bicycles in the sunshine, or I don't know. I would love to see one, I wouldn't be able to believe my eyes! I would probably be laughing with irony.I tried to find one for you online, I think you probably can if you search. YouTube is one possibility, I guess...
The Cymbalta ad is "Where does depression hurt?" Zoloft has a little white ovoid bounding around, Effexor -- at least, I think it's Effexor -- has an ad about how "70% of people on antidepressants still have symptoms and we can fix that..." Wellbutrin touts its "low risk of sexual side effects." It bothers me for a lot of reasons -- largely having to do with me having experience with all of the drugs I see advertised...
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 6, 2006, at 13:20:36
In reply to Re: Oprah show on Suicide » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 13:00:30
Yeah I think its bad. Yet another thing to add to my list of 'Big Pharma does wrong again'.
Anyway. My machine is pretty old now, and its a mac anyway, and I don't have alot of those weird little programs you often need to watch video clips on the net....
But anyway. Yeah its kinda weird. Clearly, the doctors should be deciding what drugs to give to their patients rather than the other way round...of course, doctors themselves can be swayed one way or another by Big Pharma...
Kind regards
Meri
BTW I like your style!
Posted by Gabbi~G~ on October 6, 2006, at 14:39:25
In reply to Re: Oprah show on Suicide » Racer, posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 6, 2006, at 13:20:36
Yeah.. a great big yeah.. to all of you.
That's all I can muster this morning (or is it afternoon?)
Maybe it's cause I'm not on Cymbalta.An old friend of mine said he had a hobby of collecting the pens in his P.Docs office that had the names of the different drugs on them.
and he said
"Yeah, and none of them work"
Posted by alexandra_k on October 6, 2006, at 17:23:49
In reply to Re: Oprah show on Suicide, posted by Gabbi~G~ on October 6, 2006, at 14:39:25
Of course doctors presumably watch a bit of TV as well.
I guess they justify the 'direct to the consumer' via 'autonomy'.
Consumers should be able to make up their own mind!
I think there should be strict laws on false advertising...
But then when you get to sponser the studies...
The findings of a lot of studies aren't worth a great deal at any rate.
I've never seen a comercial for a psych med.
Thank God.
Posted by Deneb on October 6, 2006, at 23:11:23
In reply to Oprah show on Suicide, posted by cecilia on October 6, 2006, at 5:07:56
I actually saw that show, even though I don't usually watch Oprah. I'm thinking that show might actually do the opposite of what it was intending to do.
If I were suicidal and watched it, I would want to make darn sure that my suicide method was fool-proof so as to not end up living with massive injuries.
Deneb*
Posted by alexandra_k on October 6, 2006, at 23:39:30
In reply to Re: Oprah show on Suicide, posted by Deneb on October 6, 2006, at 23:11:23
> I would want to make darn sure that my suicide method was fool-proof so as to not end up living with massive injuries.
No method is fool-proof.
I would guess that those people most certainly didn't intend to be living with massive injuries.
Posted by Deneb on October 7, 2006, at 0:46:22
In reply to Re: Oprah show on Suicide, posted by alexandra_k on October 6, 2006, at 23:39:30
> No method is fool-proof.
>
> I would guess that those people most certainly didn't intend to be living with massive injuries.Good point Alex. I don't know why I thought my method was fool-proof.
That woman who laid down on the train tracks certainly thought her method was fool-proof.
Scare tactics...that's one way to stop people from self murder.
Deneb*
Posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2006, at 1:08:27
In reply to Re: Oprah show on Suicide *trigger* » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on October 7, 2006, at 0:46:22
> Scare tactics...that's one way to stop people from self murder.
I'm not sure that it is. I think that sometimes what people forget is that people usually attempt because they are feeling very desperate indeed. Trying to frighten someone who is feeling that way... Like trying to induce guilt by calling it 'selfish' or 'cowardly' etc is only likely to have people feel worse...
Posted by Racer on October 7, 2006, at 1:49:19
In reply to Re: Oprah show on Suicide *trigger*, posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2006, at 1:08:27
> > Scare tactics...that's one way to stop people from self murder.
>
> I'm not sure that it is. I think that sometimes what people forget is that people usually attempt because they are feeling very desperate indeed. Trying to frighten someone who is feeling that way... Like trying to induce guilt by calling it 'selfish' or 'cowardly' etc is only likely to have people feel worse...
>
>I agree.
There was a case here in the States a couple of years ago, in which a man was charged with some sort of manslaughter because he "facilitated" his wife/girlfriend's suicide. Seems he got sick of her threatening suicide, so when she said she wanted to die -- he handed her a gun. He was apparently sure she didn't mean it...
Maybe she didn't mean it, but couldn't figure out how to de-escalate? We'll never know, and she'll never have a chance to find out, either.
I'm not sure what the best solution is, when someone is suicidal. I know only my own experience, and don't even know what would have helped me. (Besides massive doses of tranquilizers...)
But scare tactics won't work for someone who is genuinely suicidal, as opposed to someone who's looking for attention.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2006, at 2:11:59
In reply to Re: Oprah show on Suicide *trigger* » alexandra_k, posted by Racer on October 7, 2006, at 1:49:19
> Maybe she didn't mean it, but couldn't figure out how to de-escalate?
Most likely.
> I'm not sure what the best solution is, when someone is suicidal.
I think it depends on the case. I think there are some cases where people have made a well considered decision and I'm not against suicide in all cases. I do think that the majority of times when people are contemplating suicide, however, is when they are having trouble finding another way to cope.
> But scare tactics won't work for someone who is genuinely suicidal, as opposed to someone who's looking for attention.
How will scare tactics work for someone who is looking for attention?
Do you think it is possible that someone could be serious about suicide, yet where positive attention is what they need to help them cope?
Maybe that is what went on in the case you mentioned...
Posted by madeline on October 7, 2006, at 6:44:40
In reply to Oprah show on Suicide, posted by cecilia on October 6, 2006, at 5:07:56
I really don't have any problem with direct drug advertising to the consumer.
I think it is a valuable source of information to the patient and tends to open dialogue between the physician and patient.
It also indicates that the patient has a say in what might be the best therapy for them.
I mean, let's be honest here, the drug companies advertise directly to the physicians, provide all sorts of incentives for prescribing a certain drug AND reward physicians for their prescribing of a certain drug. Often, patients don't even know that there are options out there.
Advertising helps to remove this realm of secrecy by directly alerting the patient that there may be a different course of treatment that hasn't been considered.
It isn't as though we can pop into the local pharmacy and pick up a hundred cymbalta without a prescription. It requires talking to a doctor, and usually that it is a very very good thing for patients.
Now, direct advertising assumes a responsible patient, one that won't go "doctor shopping" just to get a particular drug (even though that might be a GOOD thing if the physician won't discuss it) and it also assumes a responsible physician (one that won't just prescribe anything). But overall, anything that gets doctors talking to their patients and vice versa is a good thing.
Posted by Deneb on October 7, 2006, at 13:06:30
In reply to Re: Oprah show on Suicide *trigger* » alexandra_k, posted by Racer on October 7, 2006, at 1:49:19
A person can be looking for attention and still succeed in killing oneself.
I don't think we should dismiss the threats of those looking for attention, no matter how many times they threaten.
Deneb*
Posted by Racer on October 7, 2006, at 18:47:58
In reply to Re: Oprah show on Suicide *trigger* » Racer, posted by Deneb on October 7, 2006, at 13:06:30
>
> I don't think we should dismiss the threats of those looking for attention, no matter how many times they threaten.
>
> Deneb*
>I never said we should, Deneb. What I was saying is that reality might make a difference for those looking for attention, but probably wouldn't for those serious about dying.
My view of suicide threats from those looking for attention is that the best response helps them see that they're not serious about dying -- and that there are other ways to seek attention. If someone has gotten to the point of threatening suicide in order to get attention, I gotta think that there's been a major breakdown along the way -- that person should have gotten that attention long before things reached this stage.
I hate it when I hear people talk about "attention seeking" as though it's pathological. It's not. There's nothing wrong with wanting attention from others, it's natural, it's normal -- and it's something which I think should be validated. That doesn't mean that someone can have my undivided attention for long periods just for asking, mind you. It does mean, though, that if someone needs my attention and is respectful of my needs in return, I do my best to satisfy that need. I'm even getting better about limit setting in that regard.
Generally speaking, though, I will let someone know that seeking my attention by threatening suicide won't work nearly as well as asking more directly. If you call me threatening suicide, I'm much more likely to recommend the emergency psych service than I am to offer any satisfactory attention myself. If you call me saying you're lonely, though, or that you just need to talk -- then, if I am up to it, if I have time at that moment, I will talk to you. Or, if I can't at that moment give you the time you need, I will at least try to arrange to make time for you soon.
Can you understand the difference? Is that more clear to you now?
Posted by Triolian on October 10, 2006, at 19:53:25
In reply to Oprah show on Suicide, posted by cecilia on October 6, 2006, at 5:07:56
Oprah is a con artist who will use anything she thinks will "tug at people's heart-strings" to get people who don't know any better to watch her shows. Once you realize you're being conned by her, it's time to tune out. She's the equivalent of Dr. Laura Schlessinger, another pretender.
Posted by 10derHeart on October 10, 2006, at 20:59:12
In reply to Re: Oprah show on Suicide, posted by Triolian on October 10, 2006, at 19:53:25
...to other posters who could feel put down by....
>to get people who don't know any better to watch her shows
There well may be others here who don't share your views on Oprah and/or Dr. Laura, who may in fact be fans. The idea here on Babble is to be civil and supportive, which includes being sensitive by not characterizing others because they may like people/ideas that you dislike. So....to stay within the rules, it's probably better to just explain *your* feelings toward a person /idea /celebrity and leave it at that. This can be tricky, though, for sure!
Not sure if you are a poster with a new name, or a brand new poster, but in any case, here's a link to the civility guidelines if you're interested:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
respectfully,
10derHeart
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.