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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phil on January 2, 2006, at 16:04:39
From the LA Times.
Posted by James K on January 2, 2006, at 17:30:20
In reply to Psychiatrist's opinion on the state of psychiatry, posted by Phil on January 2, 2006, at 16:04:39
I'm glad that's all straightened out. I'll just go be good now and get on with my life.
8)
James K
Posted by zeugma on January 2, 2006, at 17:41:46
In reply to Psychiatrist's opinion on the state of psychiatry, posted by Phil on January 2, 2006, at 16:04:39
All medicine rests on the premise that disease is a manifestation of diseased tissue. Hepatitis comes down to an inflamed liver, while lung tissue infiltrated with pneumococcus causes pneumonia. Every medical student learns this principle. Where, though, is the diseased tissue in psychopathological conditions?>>
I can't resist, I've got a poem on this topic and such will be my reply:
I.
My name is ---, can they call me a quack?
Two can join in this game of attack:Look at the quacks over there who prescribe:
Mystical science, and a corporate bribe.A corrupted science, in serotonergetics immersed:
All that means is it’s well reimbursed.II
But let’s study the science. Chemistry awry?
If the chemicals were off, you would surely die.Serotonin and dopamine are two of a kind:
MDMA works on them both, I find.Cancer proliferates; depression makes you mope;
Is moping visible under a microscope?I went to med school and learned about diseases;
Diseases are contagious; go schizo from sneezes?Diseases are things that any fool can see,
Not ‘ideas of reference’ that send you up a tree.Disease kills you; mental illness proves
To be nothing other than what society disapproves.
III.
Now look at history; history, our friend,
Showing that panaceas are likely a criminal blend.First was Coca-Cola; the unwitting soda jerk
Made twenty cokeheads in a morning’s work.Imagine, hapless jerk, how many you destroyed!
But I cannot blame you; only menially employed,You did not pretend to cure, nor did you know
the chemical structure of what you made to flow.Your corporate employers were soon brought in line;
Corporations change anything under threat of a fine.Cocaine was removed from bottles of Coke,
And the Prozac of the day became lines and smoke.Cocaine and meth? since there’s a War on Drugs,
Zoloft is the meth of the physician thugs.Who’s the quack? Freud on cocaine,
Or the Freud who listened without blaming your brain?But I’m better than Freud, because love heals the soul:
I am not stingy with the love that I dole.Any quack prescribes a miracle cure;
Prozac or placebo? Only quacks are sure.IV.
Talk, not toxins; rather than chemicals, care;
Neurotransmission? not to be meddled with; only fools dare.You panic? Are shy? Can’t leave the house?
Hate yourself? See visions? Obsessed with your spouse?These are troubles of living, and you are not living well,
And need guidance, not pills, to lead you from hell.To accomplish this end, I don’t dash off a scrawl;
Ask for a check behind an emotional wall;They can talk all they like about neurotransmission,
Pharmaceutical stooges against a caring physician.
V.I am the way to uplift, human affirmation
I talk therapeutics, not molecular filiationAnd it’s in your human spirit that the flaw does lie,
And you will see that, and the flaw will die.I will not ignore you then hand out samples,
You’ll be better soon if you follow my example.
Posted by Tabitha on January 2, 2006, at 17:54:23
In reply to Psychiatrist's opinion on the state of psychiatry, posted by Phil on January 2, 2006, at 16:04:39
"Unlike the rest of medicine, psychiatry diagnoses behavior that society doesn't like. "
My goodness. He doesn't seem to recognize the subjective experience-- the misery of it. I'm going to have to wish this guy a nice attack of major depression or panic disorder as a learning experience.
"They are brains that produce atypical behaviors (which could include such eccentricities as dyed hair or multiple piercings or tattoos that nobody in their right mind could find attractive)."
Until there's a diagnostic category for Unusual Fashion Sense Disorder, that's a pretty ridiculous statement.
Posted by jay on January 2, 2006, at 19:00:35
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist's opinion on the state of psychiatry, posted by Tabitha on January 2, 2006, at 17:54:23
Thank you Tabitha...you kneed it right in the knockers. :) Mental Illness DOES kill, or do people commit suicide just because they 'wake up on the wrong side of the bed'? It destroys marriages, relationships...it turns quality of life into a nothingness. Yes, I do wish that writer a deep bout of depression/anxiety or any mental illness. They will be ON THEIR KNESS...and yes, because it will hurt more than anything they have ever encountered.
Jay
Posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2006, at 21:34:43
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist's opinion on the state of psychiatry » Tabitha, posted by jay on January 2, 2006, at 19:00:35
I know what you mean and agree. I was just crying trying to figure why I'm such a failure and meds don't cure me. If only someone would talk with me. Maybe then all the stuff inside that creates mental disorders would come out. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by crazy teresa on January 2, 2006, at 21:50:44
In reply to Psychiatrist's opinion on the state of psychiatry, posted by Phil on January 2, 2006, at 16:04:39
I, along with my psycho-side and no meds, could go live this fine gentleman long enough to enlighten him.
I almost agree about the disease part though. I'd rather have a disorder, maybe?
Posted by James K on January 2, 2006, at 22:24:12
In reply to Psychiatrist's opinion on the state of psychiatry, posted by Phil on January 2, 2006, at 16:04:39
I've been reading and rereading this man's editorial, trying to see if I understand it correctly. If he made a distinction between concrete illnesses such as schizophrenia and ptsd versus more behavior "illnesses" such as pedoephilia or narcissism (all my opinions), I could at least understand his point. As it is I think he is just plain wrong or at least didn't get his point across very well.
I think one area where he might run into trouble, and I want to phrase this very carefully - My brain and the actions and thoughts it produces feels attacked by his article. Although i've done nothing wrong I feel that he is calling me bad. Nothing in the moral code in my brain prevents me from attacking him if I met him. He might find that bad or wrong, society might find that bad or wrong, but my brain (me) works in such a way that it isn't wrong it is almost necessary. Psychiatry keeps me from taking the actions I have programmed myself, and have been programmed by others to take. But they are my brain signals and according to him they are my business. My moral code just happens to be different than his.
Now is the answer a pill, or talk therapy, or a combination? I'm not sure. He doesn't seem to think I need either. I'm just bad. By his standard. Not mine.
That puts me in an unhappy place, but it could put him in a worse place. I'm not advocating violence, and I'm not threatening violence, I'm just discussing the chemical and electrical reactions taking place inside my skull that produce thoughts that produce actions. I chose to seek out the best treatment I can find to see if I can change or control those thoughts. But that is only because I want to be happier and I want the world to become a better place. If the writer of this editorial would prefer that I be placed in a prison (which is not a hospital by the way), that's his business. There is nothing intellectually stopping me from doing anything that crosses my mind.
Maybe the problem is that I was dropped on my head when I was a baby (true), and my brain is hurt. but that would be disease - like tendonitis.
Irritated that I can be irritated so easily
James K
Posted by sleepygirl on January 3, 2006, at 2:34:21
In reply to Psychiatrist's opinion on the state of psychiatry, posted by Phil on January 2, 2006, at 16:04:39
hhhhmmm....not so happy in the psychiatric profession I'd gather. I tried SO HARD to live past the limitations imposed by my biochemistry (and I still do ;-). In the past it was enough to make me want to die because of feeling not "good enough".
Ehhhh....this again touches that fuzzy gray area between biology and intention and choice, and wherever the hell they all meet. In some cases it is as clear as day that a dysfunctional biochemistry is to blame, but very often it isn't so clear. Most mentally ill people are not violent and willfully irresponsible....so I wonder who he's really talking about.
Posted by JahL on January 4, 2006, at 19:41:42
In reply to Psychiatrist's opinion on the state of psychiatry, posted by Phil on January 2, 2006, at 16:04:39
Are people who commit suicide good or bad? Presumably they're deluded, self indulgent attention seekers, either way.
What made me laugh was Savodnik's implied assertion that Dan White *could not* have been 'insane' (or *mentally ill*). He follows this by telling us White committed suicide soon after being released from prison. Very normal behaviour. Very logical (the guy's just won his freedom and he celebrates by killing himself?!?).
Savodnik seems really angry about something - I sense real issues. I'd see a psychiatrist.....
Posted by JahL on January 4, 2006, at 20:01:47
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist's opinion on the state of psychiatry, posted by James K on January 2, 2006, at 22:24:12
> Although i've done nothing wrong I feel that he is calling me bad. Nothing in the moral code in my brain prevents me from attacking him if I met him.> If the writer of this editorial would prefer that I be placed in a prison (which is not a hospital by the way), that's his business. There is nothing intellectually stopping me from doing anything that crosses my mind.
I think I know where you're coming from.My own brand of dysphoric Bipolar makes me prone to violent (including self-violence) ideation. I'm not proud, but I have no problem admitting to that. However I *do* have a problem with supposedly educated people who would have me deprived of my medications had they the chance. I need these to keep my explosive temper in check. Take my meds away and you're as good as taking my freedom away. Sad but true.
I wonder if Sadovnik would like to meet a Jah sans meds? An angry Jah who is particulary riled by the irrational musings of someone who challenges the authenticity of his suffering.
Feelin' it.
Posted by James K on January 4, 2006, at 21:35:11
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist's opinion on the state of psychiatry » James K, posted by JahL on January 4, 2006, at 20:01:47
We better calm down before someone notices us!
Go Longhorns!
Thanks for the response, I was starting to feel like a thread killer. If you're U.S. you may be watching the big college football game. I'll be back later.
James K
Posted by James K on January 5, 2006, at 1:07:11
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist's opinion on the state of psychiatry » James K, posted by JahL on January 4, 2006, at 20:01:47
think I know where you're coming from.
>
> My own brand of dysphoric Bipolar makes me prone to violent (including self-violence) ideation. I'm not proud, but I have no problem admitting to that. However I *do* have a problem with supposedly educated people who would have me deprived of my medications had they the chance. I need these to keep my explosive temper in check. Take my meds away and you're as good as taking my freedom away. Sad but true.
>
I know where you're coming from there myself. I have those exact problems myself. Sometimes I am proud of it. That's part of the sickness. Or personal idiosyncracies. However, I am doing the right things for myself in the hope of eventual peace of mind. A dog can be conditioned to respond a certain way to certain stimuli. The dog isn't bad, the trainer is bad.
And the dog's mistakes aren't ordinary doggie frailty. We may have to put the dog down. Sometimes we put humans down.when I've carved obscenities into my skin. beaten myself black and blue. Taken hammers and butcher knives to myself, I think maybe I was sick, not just refusing to conform to society's norms.
Man, that editorial was so random, my responses are just as random.> I wonder if Sadovnik would like to meet a Jah sans meds? An angry Jah who is particulary riled by the irrational musings of someone who challenges the authenticity of his suffering.
>
And this distinguished gentleman works at a public university where he can influence young people on their parent's tax and personal dollar.And he can have his intellectual excreta published in a major newspaper to make sure those
readers who conform to societies norms can feel good about themselves and their superiority to psychiatrists and patients.I say to him and all like him come out of your ivory towers and centers of higher learning and join us in the street.
respectfully,
James K
This is the end of the thread.
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