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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mbluett on October 16, 2005, at 14:04:07
Hi All,
I have been following this informative board for a good few years now and one thing that I have noticed is the pain people endure on Effexor. By this I mean tolerating unbelieveable side effects in order to 'stick with' the medication (s) that is/are prescribed for them. I have been one of those patients in the past.
It saddens me to see that pharmaceutical companies, and Wyeth in particular, had to stoop so low with Effexor as to make it a physically addictive drug in order to guarantee themselves profits. That is Western medicine...A cure would be futile to profit taking. Doctors and psychiatrists try so hard to soften the description of addiction to antidepressants, hypnotics and anxiolytics. They try and make the patient look like the ones who is at fault. As if it were a personal weakness to experience discomfort whilst using or attempting cessation of these powerful drugs.
I am writing this for those of you that have had enough of living half a life whilst on medication. I was on Effexor for about 10 years. Sure, I had been placed on the medication to assist me in recovering from the paralysing depressions that I used to experience. Over the years on Effexor I began to feel less and less like myself. My zext for life had been sapped from my body, my cognitive abilites and sexual potency were drained away from me. It was not like I was experiencing age related declines in those areas either. I was placed on Effexor when I was 22 years old. I merely began to exist...I had no passion for life...no ups, no downs, no interest in personal achievement, no concern for others....just TOTAL APATHY!! Not a great way to live. I find it ironic that the medication designed and manufactured to relieve us of emotional pain and personal entropy to be the medications that turn us into passionless citizens of the world.
Anyway after realising that I was moving deeper and deeper into a state of nothingness I decided to give self-respect and natural supplements another go. I weened myself off 300mg of Effexor XR over 4 months and then added Solgar V2000 (a high potency multivitamin and multimineral), 5-HTP, Acetyl l-carnitine and SAM-e to the mix. Those supplements along with some positive self-assurance and self-love (something that is quite difficult to do when you're depressed) have allowed me take every step toward living a joyful and creative life. I have by no means attained that state yet, but it is certainly on the horizon.
I am a month down the line and I can say that I'm holding out well. I realise that it is going to take some time for my body to re-adjust itself to my biological homeostasis state prior to Effexor. I look forward to having my memory and reasoning back and also the sense of physical and sexual attraction. I look forward to being the virile, passionate male that I was prior to Effexor.
Say NO to the Pharmaceutical giants with their zombie potions and start living as who you're meant to be. Everything is possible, just believe it so. Believe your ability to heal yourself. We are all great and perfect creations in our own right. All the best.
Posted by Declan on October 16, 2005, at 14:04:07
In reply to Effexor CAN BE BEATEN!!, posted by mbluett on October 15, 2005, at 12:58:28
Here we go again, the med debate thing.
Isn't it terrible. 10 years from the age of 22. Maybe that age just seems better as you get older. I didn't enjoy it then. The body was better than the mind then. 30 years later it's the other way round.
But congratulations. I'd rather feel bad than apathetic. Life doesn't last forever. And I don't want those pharmaceutical companies getting money off me either.
Declan
Posted by linkadge on October 16, 2005, at 14:04:07
In reply to Re: Effexor CAN BE BEATEN!! » mbluett, posted by Declan on October 15, 2005, at 14:10:59
You are right on so many levels.
The drug comanies try very hard to say that their medications are not addictive.
They are however, addictive in every sence of the word. Physically, emotionally, cognativly, and the list goes on.
In 30 years doctors will look back and admit to this, but not at the present time.
Psychiatry harbors this dumb little notion, that it is in a mentally ill patient's best interest to withold potentially painfull information about their treatments.
Linkadge
Posted by Guy on October 16, 2005, at 14:04:07
In reply to Effexor CAN BE BEATEN!!, posted by mbluett on October 15, 2005, at 12:58:28
I agree with a lot that you say, and have a burning desire to be free of meds and let my brain regain its "homeostasis". Unfortunately, I have severe panic disorder and have had very little success tapering off my meds. Every time I reduce my meds I experience severe INSOMNIA and AGITATION and soon become extremely SUICIDAL. I am forced back onto my meds just to save my own life and bring my household back to an even keel. I wonder what suggestions you might have for someone like me. I have tried everything from CBT, to accupuncture, mega-vitamins, and hypnotism. My current med regime in 5 mg Zyprexa combined with 1.5 mg clonazepam.
Posted by crazy teresa on October 16, 2005, at 14:16:26
In reply to Effexor CAN BE BEATEN!!, posted by mbluett on October 15, 2005, at 12:58:28
I'm trying to find courage enough to do the exact same thing, for the exact same reasons.
Posted by crazy teresa on October 16, 2005, at 14:17:54
In reply to Re: Effexor CAN BE BEATEN!!, posted by linkadge on October 15, 2005, at 18:51:45
Posted by mbluett on October 16, 2005, at 16:31:28
In reply to Re: Effexor CAN BE BEATEN!!, posted by Guy on October 15, 2005, at 19:34:04
> I agree with a lot that you say, and have a burning desire to be free of meds and let my brain regain its "homeostasis". Unfortunately, I have severe panic disorder and have had very little success tapering off my meds. Every time I reduce my meds I experience severe INSOMNIA and AGITATION and soon become extremely SUICIDAL. I am forced back onto my meds just to save my own life and bring my household back to an even keel. I wonder what suggestions you might have for someone like me. I have tried everything from CBT, to accupuncture, mega-vitamins, and hypnotism. My current med regime in 5 mg Zyprexa combined with 1.5 mg clonazepam.
Hi there,It isn't something that happens overnight, but it does start with the decision to find the strength within yourself to be who you want to be. Who that is up to you. We all have a great vision of ourselves that we fear to 'wear'. It is this suppression of the self that has created a multitude of 'modern' illness especially ones of mental origin.
I have been in the same boat as you with the insomnia, agitation and suicidal tendencies. I've been hospitalised in 3 different countries around the world for my depression. You wake up everyday with the fear that you ARE going to LIVE. It is sad and painful way of being, yet within us we have a sense of knowing that keeps our hearts beating and our sense of hope alive. We don't know that at the time.
As I said earlier it starts with a decision or yearning to unleash the power of your humanity and soul. We weren't born to endure endless suffering. Many of us are worn away in the storm of social norms and 'acceptable' behaviour. We don't listen to our innner selves anymore and we take on the truth of others as our own. The media thrives on this fact. It has become a massive snowball of fear and negativity that has many people addicted. We become addicted to fear because we think that what 'others' (the media and the political scaremongers that grace our planet at present) have 'truth' and knowledge for our own lives. We need to renounce fear as a way of living. This is where we can start on a personal level. Once the decision is made you will be on a single track to finding yourself and the boundless joy that IS YOU.
I make it sound so easy don't I....The truth is that it is easy....It all starts with a decision. Then you need to put the basics in place. That includes proper nutrition, some exercise and sufficient sleep (yes, even with the help of Zyprexa and Clonazepam). As you become more confident with your ability to heal yourself you will find that you will require less and less of the 'crutches' that helped you walk the difficult 'path'. Once you've established a realistic method of weaning yourself off the drugs you will need to institute a nutriceutical regimen to support you. For you I would recommend a high potency multivitamin, then 6 - 9 grams daily of fish oil and 100mg - 200mg of 5-HTP with some magnesium at bedtime. This should greatly assist with the hyperexcitability of your nervous system. If you need further mood elevation then I would add some SAM-e. The onset of efficacy of these supplements is slower than pharmaceuticals but the effect, especially synergistically, is far more long term.
To complete your self-healing program you need to include the 3rd element to exsitence and that is spirituality....the nurturing of your soul. I recommend spirituality over religion for obvious reasons. There is loads of great literature out there with some equally good spiritual guides and teachers. Follow what you are naturally drawn to. These will fill your life with the optimism that you need to move forward and make a recovery from a painful existence to a joyous and progressive one.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 16, 2005, at 19:52:08
In reply to Linkadge, opine on the supplements fo me? (nm), posted by crazy teresa on October 16, 2005, at 14:17:54
> Linkadge, opine on the supplements fo me?
Sorry to interrupt again, but now I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding supplements to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050924/msgs/567860.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by mbluett on October 23, 2005, at 23:14:29
I'm starting to get the feeling that the "babble" board is the melting pot for the social feedback that pharmaceutical companies need in marketing, launching and 'pushing' new drugs.
I've had a few posts redirected by Dr Bob recently. I feel this was done in order to dilute their message. Yes, they were direct attacks on 'the new narcotics' of the 20th and 21st Century, especially Effexor. Now the drug peddlars are the pharmaceuticals companies and their runners are the doctors.
I'm annoyed that my post entitled "Effexor can be beaten" was siphoned off to 2 others boards. It was directed and intended for this board, Dr Bob. Now I can't even find it. Promote FREEDOM of SPEECH, BOB!!!
All we all enjoying our BRAVE NEW WORLD?
Posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 23:14:29
In reply to Are we all under the Big Pharma spell?, posted by mbluett on October 23, 2005, at 8:39:33
I completely agree with your message, as I posted before.
It was probably redirected since we have a board specifically designed for drug withdrawl and related topics.
P.s. I am still suffering what appears to be permanant neurological problems related to the medications.
Linkadge
Posted by med_empowered on October 23, 2005, at 23:14:29
In reply to Re: Are we all under the Big Pharma spell?, posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 9:45:04
Yeah...I'm not so big on Big Pharma either. I don't know if we're headed towards a "Brave New World" yet (I think the drugs would have to **WORK** and be **PLEASANT** for that to happen), but the situation certainly isn't that great. did you know that the US, with only 250 some odd million people, out of the world's 6 billion , accounts for 1/3 of the pharmaceutical industry's overall profit? 33%!! Meanwhile, docs litter their offices with drug-industry propaganda, attend free lunches, get gifts, and even have their research bought (whoops...I mean "supported") by the drug companies. Its ridiculous.
Posted by SLS on October 23, 2005, at 23:14:29
In reply to Re: Are we all under the Big Pharma spell?, posted by med_empowered on October 23, 2005, at 10:35:21
> Yeah...I'm not so big on Big Pharma either. I don't know if we're headed towards a "Brave New World" yet (I think the drugs would have to **WORK** and be **PLEASANT** for that to happen), but the situation certainly isn't that great. did you know that the US, with only 250 some odd million people, out of the world's 6 billion , accounts for 1/3 of the pharmaceutical industry's overall profit? 33%!! Meanwhile, docs litter their offices with drug-industry propaganda, attend free lunches, get gifts, and even have their research bought (whoops...I mean "supported") by the drug companies. Its ridiculous.
Well, it might not be totally ridiculous, but it is pretty close. The alternative to these capitalist weaknesses is greater regulation, not less. Big Brother must grow in order for the profits of pharmaceutical companies to shrink and the ethics of physicians to be legislated.
How well does socialized medicine work?
- Scott
Posted by Racer on October 23, 2005, at 23:14:29
In reply to Re: Are we all under the Big Pharma spell?, posted by SLS on October 23, 2005, at 10:57:51
My biggest objections have to do with the pharmaceutical companies basically funding the FDA. Yeah, uh-huh, let's pay the fox to guard the chickencoop.
Posted by ed_uk on October 23, 2005, at 23:14:29
In reply to Re: Are we all under the Big Pharma spell?, posted by Racer on October 23, 2005, at 11:16:22
Hi Racie,
Have a read of this..........
'Most US guideline panels have conflicts of interests'
Conflicts of interest details were not in half of the guidelines in the survey
One in three academics and doctors who write clinical practice guidelines have a financial interest in the drug company associated with the drugs they recommend, according to the results of a US survey published this week in the journal Nature (2005;437:1070).Researchers discovered that there was a conflict of interest in nearly 70 per cent of the panels they surveyed.
Commenting on the findings, the deputy editor of JAMA, Drummond Rennie, who is campaigning for clinical guidelines to be free from the influence of the industry, said:
“The numbers in the survey are distressing. The practice stinks.”
The survey revealed that of 685 authors questioned, 445 (65 per cent) said they had no conflict of interest. But 21 per cent (143) admitted they held a consultancy position for the drug company involved or sat on an advisory board. Another 22 per cent (153) revealed they had received research grants from the drug company, and a further 15 per cent (103) had other links.
Only 2.3 per cent or 16 authors owned drug company stock. But researchers found that every member of one clinical guideline panel had been paid by the company that was behind the drug that the guidelines recommended.
The survey results were based on all guidelines given to the US national guideline clearing house in 2004. The researchers revealed that, overall, 49 per cent of the clinical guidelines involved in the survey did not include any details of any panel members’ potential conflict of interest.
A spokesman for the Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry said there is nothing in the UK that is equivalent to the US clinical practice guidance panels.
He said: “The nearest thing in the UK to clinical guidance practice panels are the various advice bodies, the British National Formulary and the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence health technology assessments. These are all totally independent organisations.”
A spokesman for NICE, which produces clinical guidelines for the NHS in England and Wales, told The Journal that NICE had a conflict of interest policy in place. He explained that each clinical guideline produced by NICE had an associated guideline development group, each with its own rules dictating who could and who could not sit on the group. However, he added that it was important that NICE took the views of the pharmaceutical industry into account when developing guidance and that industry representatives would therefore sit on NICE committees. “Those who are not representing industry have to declare any conflict of interest,” he said.
Ed xx
Posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 23:14:30
In reply to Re: Are we all under the Big Pharma spell? » Racer, posted by ed_uk on October 23, 2005, at 12:08:48
My psychiatrist has more wellbutrin oranges in his office, than oranges exist at the grocery store.
Linkadge
Posted by pseudoname on October 23, 2005, at 23:14:30
In reply to Are we all under the Big Pharma spell?, posted by mbluett on October 23, 2005, at 8:39:33
> All we all enjoying our BRAVE NEW WORLD?
Not yet, and that won't be the title. LOL.
Big Pharma officially recently tried to get a novel titled "The Spivak Conspiracy" written & published that would scare Americans away from buying generic Canadian imports. PhRMA (the drug industry lobbying group) hired writers to make a novel about Bosnian terrorists contaminating Canadian drugs that make thousands of Americans sick. PhRMA executives figured such a book would be more effective public relations than all the boring op-eds and position statements it currently uses to oppose cheap imports.
The editor on the book (which may yet see print as "The Karasik Conspiracy") was -- and I am not making this up -- JAYSON BLAIR.
Stories at:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/gossip/story/356296p-303697c.htmlhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/19/AR2005101902119_pf.html
(This post *should*, perhaps, be redirected to Books...)
Posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2005, at 23:14:30
In reply to Big Pharma's brave new novel, posted by pseudoname on October 23, 2005, at 13:50:00
Free samples, clipboards, phamplets with smiling face, pens , cups etc. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by zeugma on October 30, 2005, at 16:15:23
In reply to Big Pharma's brave new novel, posted by pseudoname on October 23, 2005, at 13:50:00
> > All we all enjoying our BRAVE NEW WORLD?
>
> Not yet, and that won't be the title. LOL.
>
> Big Pharma officially recently tried to get a novel titled "The Spivak Conspiracy" written & published that would scare Americans away from buying generic Canadian imports. PhRMA (the drug industry lobbying group) hired writers to make a novel about Bosnian terrorists contaminating Canadian drugs that make thousands of Americans sick. PhRMA executives figured such a book would be more effective public relations than all the boring op-eds and position statements it currently uses to oppose cheap imports.
>
> The editor on the book (which may yet see print as "The Karasik Conspiracy") was -- and I am not making this up -- JAYSON BLAIR.
>
> Stories at:
> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/gossip/story/356296p-303697c.html
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/19/AR2005101902119_pf.html
>
> (This post *should*, perhaps, be redirected to Books...)Pseudoname, fascinating post. It is offensive to me, however, since it appears to contain a slighting reference to Jayson Blair: I was on the Pulitzer committee a few years ago and nominated a piece of his for the award. Do not remind of this misstep again.
I actually think the Big Pharm control of information is a good thing. I develop the argument in this defense of Dr. Bob's civility rules:http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20051013/msgs/573449.html
-z
This is the end of the thread.
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