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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 15 to 39 of 39. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on September 17, 2005, at 22:37:05
In reply to Re: Do paients have the rt to C their file??? » Phillipa, posted by Gabbix2 on September 17, 2005, at 21:31:47
Very interesting since I was born and raised in Connecticut. What part of ct are you from? I was from Fairfield County on the Norwalk/Westport line most of my life then Stamford. But back to medical records. Working in psych in NC the pdocs wouldn't let pts have access to their charts unless they could read them with them. But if you change pdocs you can have the records sent to them. Most pdocs don't want other pdocs records as they want to assess the pts for themselves. I find this very interesting as I was put on Disability for a reason I don't know and have no way of finding out why. Something is definitely wrong. Thanks Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 17, 2005, at 23:26:02
In reply to Re: Do paients have the rt to C their file??? » Gabbix2, posted by Phillipa on September 17, 2005, at 22:37:05
> Very interesting since I was born and raised in Connecticut. What part of ct are you from? I was from Fairfield County on the
I'm not from Connecticut, that's just where the information was from
Norwalk/Westport line most of my life then Stamford. But back to medical records. Working in psych in NC the pdocs wouldn't let pts have access to their charts unless they could read them with them.I'm sure that happened, but lot's of things happen because patients don't know what their rights are, and Doctors can take advantage of that.
Here's a link to the information on patient rights in Connecticut.
http://www.ct.gov/opapd/cwp/view.asp?a=1756&Q=277258&opapdPNavCtr=%7C
But if you change pdocs you can have the records sent to them.Yep, that's true too.
I find this very interesting as I was put on Disability for a reason I don't know and have no way of finding out why.
You do, but you have to find the patient advocacy information for your area.
You have a right to find out whyFondly, Phillipa
Your welcome
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 17, 2005, at 23:30:56
In reply to Re: Do paients have the rt to C their file??? » Gabbix2, posted by Phillipa on September 17, 2005, at 22:37:05
Working in psych in NC the pdocs wouldn't let pts have access to their charts unless they could read them with them.
This is from The Office of Advocacy and disability Gov't of Connecticut:
HOW DO I OBTAIN ACCESS TO ME PSYCHIATRIC FACILITY RECORDS?
You have the right, upon written request, to inspect all of your hospital records and to make copies.
Posted by Phillipa on September 17, 2005, at 23:39:13
In reply to Re: Do paients have the rt to C their file??? » Phillipa, posted by Gabbix2 on September 17, 2005, at 23:30:56
I think it's that one line that if it could be harmful to the pt that they go on. And think of how you would feel if it was charted that you had a dx you were uninformed of. That was essentially what the pdocs said here. That was when I worked in psch. Almost sounds like you would need an attorney. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 0:00:30
In reply to Re: Do paients have the rt to C their file??? » Gabbix2, posted by Phillipa on September 17, 2005, at 23:39:13
> I think it's that one line that if it could be harmful to the pt that they go on. And think of how you would feel if it was charted that you had a dx you were uninformed of. That was essentially what the pdocs said here. That was when I worked in psch. Almost sounds like you would need an attorney. Fondly, Phillipa
I did have a dx I was unaware of, and had no problem getting my chart.
You are always allowed to ask what your diagnosis is.
I don't really know how to generalize what it sounds like.. I only know what is written.
Posted by wildcard on September 18, 2005, at 0:14:11
In reply to Re: Do paients have the rt to C their file??? » Phillipa, posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 0:00:30
i ck'ed Phillipa and in NC and SC the patient has the right. ? Gabbi, how can u have a dx that they didnt inform u of? I want my records b/c im appealing disability and w/ the dx's i do have, lawyers wld jump to take my case. When i attempted suicide, i didnt even know i received blood until my social security paperwork. And i do agree, patients don't know their rights and therefore get BS'ed. Thats why im getting as much info as possible. thx a bunch!
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 0:20:14
In reply to Re: patients files *trigger?* » Gabbix2, posted by wildcard on September 18, 2005, at 0:14:11
> i ck'ed Phillipa and in NC and SC the patient has the right. ? Gabbi, how can u have a dx that they didnt inform u of? I want my records b/c im appealing disability and w/ the dx's i do have, lawyers wld jump to take my case. When i attempted suicide, i didnt even know i received blood until my social security paperwork. And i do agree, patients don't know their rights and therefore get BS'ed. Thats why im getting as much info as possible. thx a bunch!
Good for you. You're very welcome, knowledge is power!
Posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2005, at 0:30:53
In reply to Re: patients files *trigger?* » wildcard, posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 0:20:14
Okay now we're getting somewhere. You're bringing attorneys into it for a very specific purpose that could affect your whole life. And yes i agree that that information should and will be available. See when your're a nurse you are told yes told to write in your notes the worst possible things you can say about a pt. That is mostly to keep a pt in the hospital longer and to get insurance to pay for that you have to have a reason the pt is there. Today only reasons are really suicidal, psychotic, off meds and need to start meds. They don't allow you to just come in for simple depression like in the past. It really all boils down to malpractice insurance and insurance in general. It's hard to be a nurse and write the worst possible things you could say about a pt. And that is what the pdocs feel is detrimental for a pt to read. But how could you receive blood without someone telling you later? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on September 18, 2005, at 0:30:55
In reply to Re: Do paients have the rt to C their file??? » Phillipa, posted by Gabbix2 on September 17, 2005, at 23:26:02
Okay, I read through most of this thread, and I had to interject.
In the US, the law that relates to this issue is called HIPPA. This just went into effect 1-2 yrs ago. It applies across states and to all medical records. Google it.
However, the major issue here is not whether you CAN see your file, but whether you WANT to see your file. True, most t's and pdocs will try to encourage you not to see your file, but that is in order to minimize the harm to YOU. Psychology and psychiatry have their own clinical language and way of describing things. It can be very hard emotionally and confusing to read someone's clinical notes on your personality and innermost struggles. It is not like reading, for example, your chart from your OB-GYN. Good mental health professionals write your file as if you would indeed read it some day--sensitive, respectful, etc. However, what seems sensitive to your pdoc may feel cold and judgemental to you--even if your pdoc loves you.
If you decide that you want to see your file, you will want to do so with the pdoc present, so s/he can clarify anything that is confusing. If it is a legal matter, perhaps it makes sense to ask a lawyer exactly what you would need. Or ask pdoc what you should tell the lawyer. Or if you doubt how your pdoc has treated you, seek out a new pdoc for an eval (frankly, if his treatment stinks, his chart notes are likely to be useless too).
I hope I expressed myself clearly here. It would break my heart if you, or other p-babblers, exposed themselves to even more pain. Please feel free to ask me to clarify. I wish you only good luck.
Best,
EE
Posted by wildcard on September 18, 2005, at 0:40:17
In reply to WAIT--Please read this!, posted by Emily Elizabeth on September 18, 2005, at 0:30:55
I understand what u are saying but i am to the point where nothing is working and i want to see what these professionals have observed about me. Yes, it cld. be harmful but it cld. also be helpful. The best T i had worked w/ me using CBT but she quit and i have no ins. so i have to take what i can get. Question, how cld. a doc dx u and have it in ur file w/o u knowing about it? Is this common?
Posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2005, at 0:46:43
In reply to Re: WAIT--Please read this! » Emily Elizabeth, posted by wildcard on September 18, 2005, at 0:40:17
Yes! Yes! Yes! Fondly, phillipa
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 0:46:50
In reply to WAIT--Please read this!, posted by Emily Elizabeth on September 18, 2005, at 0:30:55
The question was, do you have a right to see your file. And my answer was yes you do. Not knowing what is in your file can be harmful too, especially when the patient not knowing what has been written about them (that which is not necessarily the truth, but the opinion of the P.Doc) allows this information to be shared with other medical proffessionals, and may end up stigmatizing them
Of course I would want to go over it with someone but not necessarily the P.Doc who wrote it, because I'd want an objective opinion.
I don't necessarily go along that the P.Doc's want to protect their patient, I think often they want to avoid having to explain anything they may have been incorrectly assessed, and legitimately taken issue with by the patient.
If you take the pdocs word as gospel, then I suppose that is not an issue. To me, it's just another viewpoint, and hardly authoritative.
Posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2005, at 0:52:33
In reply to Re: WAIT--Please read this! » Emily Elizabeth, posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 0:46:50
You're both correct. But if someone came in suicidal and read something they didn't think was true about them without someone present to intervene in their behalf it could just could push them over the edge. Another example is someone who comes in manic and doesnt remember stripping off all their clothes in front of other pts and staff. It happens all the time. And that is when male staff are called to restrain the pt. How humiliating. But once their meds are working they don't remember. But it's documented in their notes. Both nurses and pdocs. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by wildcard on September 18, 2005, at 0:59:41
In reply to Re: WAIT--Please read this! » Emily Elizabeth, posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 0:46:50
I agree! I wld. also want a third party if needed to view MY file b/c i wld. think they wld. be more open minded. I doubt that what they wrote wld. hurt me(not speaking for others), as i know i have issues and to see them written wld. bring closure of sorts. I hope i'm making sense as i'm getting a bit sleepy.
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 1:08:39
In reply to Re: WAIT--Please read this! » Gabbix2, posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2005, at 0:52:33
> You're both correct. But if someone came in suicidal and read something they didn't think was true about them without someone present to intervene in their behalf it could just could push them over the edge. Another example is someone who comes in manic and doesnt remember stripping off all their clothes in front of other pts and staff. It happens all the time. And that is when male staff are called to restrain the pt. How humiliating. But once their meds are working they don't remember. But it's documented in their notes. Both nurses and pdocs. Fondly, Phillipa
I know what goes on in psych hospitals, I've worked with the mentally ill, and there are of going to be extreme cases in every situation.
I get the feeling that Caroline has put a lot of thought into how to go about this, and she was the one I was responding to.
Posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2005, at 1:17:12
In reply to Re: WAIT--Please read this!, posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 1:08:39
Yeah I know we've been E-mailing inbetween. It's tough isn't it. Can I ask what type of work did you do or are you doing. Not trying to step on toes. I'm just mad at myself because I let a doctor put me on disability and then charged me $50 fo copy my office chart and wouldn't just wouldnt release it to me had to send it to another pdoc. Sorry if I angered you. I wouldn't want to do that. But all this red tape just makes me so mad. Mad at myself mostly. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 11:45:20
In reply to Re: WAIT--Please read this! » Gabbix2, posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2005, at 1:17:12
> Yeah I know we've been E-mailing inbetween. It's tough isn't it.
It is tough, the complexity can make speculation endless.
No you didn't anger me. As I discovered this morning, I was coming down with a cold last night.
Before I get sick I get really impatient.. I just want people to read my mind and know what I'm getting at!
I'm sorry if I sounded snippy. Actually I know I did, so I am sorry : )
Posted by wildcard on September 18, 2005, at 11:50:38
In reply to Re: WAIT--Please read this! » Phillipa, posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 11:45:20
> I am the same way alot of the time. I think people *know* what i'm feeling or thinking and i get a tad b*tchy...LOL
Sorry ur getting a cold. I just got over one and it was awful. Take lots of Vitamin C ; )
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 12:39:41
In reply to Gabbix2 » Gabbix2, posted by wildcard on September 18, 2005, at 11:50:38
> > I am the same way alot of the time. I think people *know* what i'm feeling or thinking and i get a tad b*tchy...LOL
Oh I know it's like " dammit why don't you just read my mind, it would make this so much easier for *me*!"
It's nice to know I'm not alone. Thanks for the understanding, it's really appreciated.
> Sorry ur getting a cold. I just got over one and it was awful. Take lots of Vitamin C ; )I will do that..
Thanks Wildcard : )
Posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2005, at 12:54:31
In reply to Re: Gabbix2 » wildcard, posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 12:39:41
Gabbix2, You're more than forgiven. It was getting heated but a good discussion is good. Hope you feel better and take that vitamin C and drink pleanty of fluids and rest. Sounds just like your Mother doesn't it? Well I just care about people that's my nature. Love your friend, Jan/Phillipa
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 14:04:48
In reply to Re: Gabbix2 » Gabbix2, posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2005, at 12:54:31
> Gabbix2, You're more than forgiven. It was getting heated but a good discussion is good. Hope you feel better and take that vitamin C and drink pleanty of fluids and rest. Sounds just like your Mother doesn't it? Well I just care about people that's my nature. Love your friend, Jan/Phillipa
Thank you so much!
That was so sweet of you I think I feel better already.
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on September 18, 2005, at 14:54:20
In reply to Re: WAIT--Please read this! » Emily Elizabeth, posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 0:46:50
> The question was, do you have a right to see your file. And my answer was yes you do. Not knowing what is in your file can be harmful too, especially when the patient not knowing what has been written about them (that which is not necessarily the truth, but the opinion of the P.Doc)
True
allows this information to be shared with other medical proffessionals, and may end up stigmatizing them
Sadly, true too
>
> Of course I would want to go over it with someone but not necessarily the P.Doc who wrote it, because I'd want an objective opinion.I suggested pdoc b/c I was thinking if you read something that upset you, you could ask why s/he wrote that, what he meant, etc. A complication to the idea of an objective diagnosis by another professional is that the notes themselves will be biased by pdoc #1's interpretation. If you had a bizarre skin rash and the doc took labs, then another doc could give you a 2nd opinon based on your chart. Psychiatry is not black and white enough for this to work easily.
> I don't necessarily go along that the P.Doc's want to protect their patient,
Admitedly, I am biased b/c I have had 2 great pdocs and a great therapist. Certainly there are A LOT of bad t's and pdocs out there. No disagreement there. I also am biased b/c I am in a position where I personally have to write client records. I care very much about the people I work with and I would never intentionally write something cruel about them. I would, however, feel concerned if some of them read their charts. Seeing something written is somehow different.
I think often they want to avoid having to explain anything they may have been incorrectly assessed, and legitimately taken issue with by the patient.
> If you take the pdocs word as gospel, then I suppose that is not an issue. To me, it's just another viewpoint, and hardly authoritative.
>
>
You are right, it is just one person's (professional) opinon and if you can keep that in perspective, it might not be as hard to read your file. But I'd venture a guess that you are an exception, rather than the norm. I know that I would have a very hard time looking at my file b/c anything "negative" would crush me. I'm not arguing that it never makes sense to see your file, but I am arguing that people should be very careful about doing so. And never do it unless it is for a clear reason. (I feel like the phrase "curiosity killed the cat" fits here :) Sounds like the poster is in a unique situation and will have to think about what she wants to do. I certainly could not say what is best for her.I just wanted to throw out some thoughts. in case others are struggling with a similar issue.
Best,
EE
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on September 18, 2005, at 15:01:35
In reply to Re: WAIT--Please read this! » Emily Elizabeth, posted by wildcard on September 18, 2005, at 0:40:17
> I understand what u are saying but i am to the point where nothing is working and i want to see what these professionals have observed about me.
Sure. Only you will know the best decision for you. I just wanted to make sure that I threw out some ideas to think about.
Yes, it cld. be harmful but it cld. also be helpful. The best T i had worked w/ me using CBT but she quit and i have no ins. so i have to take what i can get.
I'm sorry. That is a completely unfair situation.
Question, how cld. a doc dx u and have it in ur file w/o u knowing about it? Is this common?
I think it happens. Different professionals treat the issue differently. Some docs don't tell the patient the label, but will discuss the key features of the disorder. For example, sometimes they worry that telling a patient that they have "borderline personality disorder" will be upsetting and judegmental. But, on the other hand, some docs feel that putting a name to what a person struggles with can be freeing. Different schools of thought, I guess.
Best,
EE
Posted by wildcard on September 18, 2005, at 15:05:11
In reply to Re: WAIT--Please read this!, posted by Emily Elizabeth on September 18, 2005, at 15:01:35
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 18, 2005, at 18:54:15
In reply to Re: WAIT--Please read this!, posted by Emily Elizabeth on September 18, 2005, at 15:01:35
Of course.
I had somehow forgotten that at one time I could be devastated if my P.Doc went on vacation and I'd take it as rejection.
It would be awful if it was someone you trusted and looked up to, and then saw your file and thought "they think I'm an awful person!"
Or, one of the myriad of other possibilities.It is so very subjective. My first and most amazing P.Doc's philosophy was not to "kill the "demon inside" as the demon may be the most important part of you"
I believe that wholeheartedly, that what some pathologize or see as a flaw, can be your essence, and not something to normalize. Perhaps the energy needs to be focussed elsewhere, but it can be something that is a powerful, valuable force.
I was careful when I asked for mine. I was with a new p.doc was weary of many of the personality disorder diagnoses (in general, not mine)
I'd become comfortable with who I am, and my negative feelings about my new P.Doc were confirmed her attachment to the arbitrary cultural "morality" which creates "immorality" or pathology because of it's own narrow and prejudicial perception.It worked well for me.
But I can most definitely see where it could be devastating. It's complex enough in itself, but add to that the varying opinions of p-docs, it's mind boggling to try and make any general guidelines
This is the end of the thread.
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