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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 60. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by partlycloudy on April 14, 2005, at 8:00:02
So my latest storm at the top of this board has had me thinking about what keeps me here; what I derive from this site, what we are allowed to say, and being true to my self (that's the *pc* part I allude to, not being "politically correct").
I don't think of civility as a dance as I once did, or a pretense or veneer of politeness. I really do consider the guidelines we're given here as a way to facilitate communication without offending those with which we try to connect.
It's interesting that many of arrive here at babble with old hurts and wounds, and we are free to speak plainly about them. Whether it's a bad marriage, a damaging childhood, a traumatic work experience; they are any and all spoken about in complete openness. We can express precisely the hurt and pain that we might have experienced at the hands of others, whether they are parents, spouses, friends, or our employer. This is part of our journey to recovery, so we can process these experiences and make them part of our past, but not let them define how we act in the present.
And yet, if we experience hurt or pain by others who post here, we are restricted in how we're allowed to talk about these experiences. Even though perhaps some of them follow the same pattern of hurt that we experienced in our pasts. So even though we continue to be vulnerable to events and behaviours that have triggered us in the past, we are restricted in how we can talk about them when they happen here at babble, while communicating with others who post here.
There is a release and freedom that comes from being able to express about past hurts inflicted by others, that often can lead to breakthroughs in our recovery from them.
There is a feeling of censorship in not being able to freely express the hurts we might be experiencing presently, due to the nature of the civility rules.
What the rules allow us to do, though, is learn how to speak about these events dispassionately; we must remove the accusatory tone from our words ("you made me feel xxx way"). In doing this we actually become more effective at expressing just what is making us hurt, and why. Those darn "I statements" are elementary in most therapy sessions, especially for those of us with self esteem issues and problems with self confidence.
And finally, on kindness: this is one of the finest gifts we are able to share with another human being. It's our true salvation and protection against hurt. If someone shows me kindness and support, you can bet I am going to give that back in turn, and try my best to look for others, like newcomers to the site, who look to be needing those same qualities.
I had an awful lot to get off my chest this morning. I'm NOT looking for validation in this post. Just having this forum to be able to express myself is validation enough for me, for today.
Thanks for reading (if you bothered to get this far!)
pc which always means
partlycloudy
Posted by Susan47 on April 14, 2005, at 10:21:28
In reply to On civility, kindness, and being pc, posted by partlycloudy on April 14, 2005, at 8:00:02
I find it fascinating and delightful when I'm reading posts like yours and emmy's and it sounds just like you're talking IRL to your sister or mom, because your feelings truly get hurt and you respond honestly .. I've done it too .. and personalities come through, you know? And most times everyone has a valid place they're coming from, it's finding the validity is sometimes hard to do, that's my biggest problem. Once I do find it, or some reason why this happened, it's really mind-expanding though. This is a wonderful forum, and it hurts me too sometimes.
Posted by sunny10 on April 14, 2005, at 10:48:34
In reply to Re: On civility, kindness, and being pc » partlycloudy, posted by Susan47 on April 14, 2005, at 10:21:28
that's really why I can't bend my head around why everyone here SEEMS to separate their Babble relationships into a different category...
we may not be face to face, but we are still "in real life", here!!! We are ourselves. We are not cyber-robots... we are living, breathing, feeling, thinking (okay, most of the time thinking) human beings attempting to communicate with each other....
Is it really much different than speaking to a newly made friend on the phone??? A new friendship that will either bloom or wither? Isn't that the way of all relationships? Getting to know one another and finding people that you connect with???
How is it that we expect, and are expected to, like and be likeable all of the time just because we are on this forum?
I TRY to be as open-minded as possible at all times, not just here at Babble. And I do not always suceed, so I may need Dr. Bob, Dinah, or Mark H to gently tell me to watch it; I'm crossing a line because I've lost my temper. And I appreciate that. My face to face friends (T's, whoever) do the same thing and I do that for them. If I were perfect, I wouldn't be human...
Posted by partlycloudy on April 14, 2005, at 11:56:35
In reply to Re: On civility, kindness, and being pc, posted by sunny10 on April 14, 2005, at 10:48:34
So, if this is real life (and yes, it's real enough, just not face to face or cell phone to cell phone); can you read the tears in my words, the sorrow in my phrasing, the anger in my choppy one-liners, or the joy in my proclamations?
This isn't even like letter writing - which gives us the time to reflect upon a friend's writing, before we respond. This is almost instantaneous communication, with all its misinterpretations and misunderstandings. That's why I regard the civility guidelines as especially important.
Inflection, which adds the depth and deepens the meaning to our conversations here, is impossible. Even the most clever emoticon (which I personally despise as visually distracting) can seem trite and insincere, at least to me.
So, yes - I get to know people here; some I get to know very well, and go on to further conversations, either via email or by voice or even (gasp!) in person.
But when I'm hurt and crying, who here can take me in their arms and give me a great big hug, like you can IRL?
pc
Posted by sunny10 on April 14, 2005, at 12:59:03
In reply to Re: On civility, kindness, and being pc » sunny10, posted by partlycloudy on April 14, 2005, at 11:56:35
actually, after getting to know someone's personal writing style, it IS possible to tell if they are hurting, being sarcastic, helping, et cetera. While the getting to know process is occurring, yes, there can be miscommunications.
But even in face to face interactions there can be miscommunications. I can fail to smile because I am distracted and the person with whom I am communicating may perceive that I am upset- or worse; upset with them, et cetera.
Hugs and shoulders to cry on are a scarce commodity in what you refer to as IRL, at least for me...
Yes, they are nicer- granted. But none at all is devastating. I'll take the support I receive here at Babble over nothing everytime...
I completely agree that civility is always important in any interaction. If I am especially concerned about having my words understood, I DO use emoticons or erratic punctuation to help others "read between the lines", so to speak.I suppose that my style of communication CAN sometimes be construed as trite and insincere, but people who know me well know that I am emotionally invested in my fellow man- perhaps too much so- I would probably hurt less if I could manage to actually FEEL insincere and not empathize as much....
Sorry if my posts offended you- I really just meant to say that I consider you all to be very important to me whether I ever meet you face to face or not. You'll all always be real to me.
Posted by Susan47 on April 14, 2005, at 13:30:57
In reply to Re: On civility, kindness, and being pc, posted by sunny10 on April 14, 2005, at 10:48:34
Right on. And sometimes it's fun to dislike someone for a while. Just because it's fun to feel wicked, and then get over it, you know?
Posted by Susan47 on April 14, 2005, at 13:35:48
In reply to Re: On civility, kindness, and being pc » sunny10, posted by partlycloudy on April 14, 2005, at 11:56:35
Please may I butt in, PC? I find I have no trouble putting inflections in my writing, and you do it too but maybe you don't see it. And the way I get an inflection is definitely not always the way it's meant but real life is like that too. People constantly misinterpret or misunderstand or don't get what somebody's said to them. All the joy and the anger and other emotions you put behind your writing, the stuff we can't visually see, I can still feel it, PC, when I read what people write. You can too, right? It may not be what you actually experienced, but it's a version of it. That's not much different from me standing beside you and getting or not getting it but still feeling great empathy and compassion for you. I wish I could give the hug IRL, though. That part is really tough. And when people disappear. That's very very tough. And you worry about them and hope for them and want the best but are powerless, absolutely powerless to do anything (sigh).
Posted by Tabitha on April 14, 2005, at 14:10:07
In reply to On civility, kindness, and being pc, posted by partlycloudy on April 14, 2005, at 8:00:02
PC I agree with your conclusions. I believe that being 'civil' is good for others and for ourselves. Good for others because it helps avoid getting a defensive reaction to what we say. Good for ourselves because I believe that making a real I-statement is more truthful than just sharing the accusatory thoughts we have. Our own feelings and reactions are underneath those accusatory thoughts, so a little work to notice them and share them is beneficial for our own self-understanding.
Posted by sunny10 on April 14, 2005, at 14:23:44
In reply to Re: On civility, kindness, and being pc » partlycloudy, posted by Tabitha on April 14, 2005, at 14:10:07
Posted by 10derHeart on April 14, 2005, at 20:50:24
In reply to Re: On civility, kindness, and being pc » partlycloudy, posted by Susan47 on April 14, 2005, at 13:35:48
>> And when people disappear. That's very very tough. And you worry about them and hope for them and want the best but are powerless, absolutely powerless to do anything (sigh).
Alex. oh. ouch. Da*n. Sh*t. Cr*p.
Alex. please. :( :( ((((us)))) ( (((alex))))
Posted by damos on April 14, 2005, at 21:30:40
In reply to Re: On civility, kindness, and being pc » Susan47, posted by 10derHeart on April 14, 2005, at 20:50:24
> >> And when people disappear. That's very very tough. And you worry about them and hope for them and want the best but are powerless, absolutely powerless to do anything (sigh).
>
>
> Alex. oh. ouch. Da*n. Sh*t. Cr*p.
> Alex. please. :( :( ((((us)))) ( (((alex))))Was trying so hard to be okay today, but the dam wall just came crashing down again.
Everything you said 10derHeart +++++++++++++++ shakin' so bad can't hit the right keys.
LOVE>us<LOVE LOVE>alex<LOVE
Posted by 10derHeart on April 14, 2005, at 22:01:13
In reply to Re: On civility, kindness, and being pc » 10derHeart, posted by damos on April 14, 2005, at 21:30:40
> Was trying so hard to be okay today, but the dam wall just came crashing down again.
>
> Everything you said 10derHeart +++++++++++++++ shakin' so bad can't hit the right keys.
>
> LOVE>us<LOVE LOVE>alex<LOVEI'm sorry, sweetie. Me, too. I push it away and it comes back. I'm sorry. Love what you put on the last line. Your beautiful heart and soul shows through so brightly here. Now we just need the other beautiful one back...NOW!!
(((Damos))) (((((((alex))))))) I just pray and pray.
Posted by damos on April 14, 2005, at 22:37:14
In reply to Re: On civility, kindness, and being pc » damos, posted by 10derHeart on April 14, 2005, at 22:01:13
>Your beautiful heart and soul shows through so brightly here.
See, now I know you're pulling my leg. I couldn't light up a cigarette.
Thank you my dear precious 10derHeart.
Posted by partlycloudy on April 15, 2005, at 7:06:24
In reply to Re: On civility, kindness, and being pc » 10derHeart, posted by damos on April 14, 2005, at 21:30:40
Has anyone heard anything from Alexandra?
Posted by 10derHeart on April 15, 2005, at 10:30:46
In reply to Re: On civility, kindness, and being pc » damos, posted by partlycloudy on April 15, 2005, at 7:06:24
No. No. Utter silence. No Babblemail. No answers to reg. email. Much, much worry.
Thus, this from me to Damos:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050408/msgs/484420.html
Babble me, if you like, or gg, she's not feeling well, but working on some thoughts of what to do re: alex...it's been a week now :-(
PS - are you doing better? you seem sort of up and down, and I worry for you...but then you're a trouper are always back here for more, thank goodness for us...((pc))
Posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 10:39:24
In reply to Re: Not hearing from alex » partlycloudy, posted by 10derHeart on April 15, 2005, at 10:30:46
Any news of alex?
Posted by partlycloudy on April 15, 2005, at 10:52:09
In reply to Re: Not hearing from alex » partlycloudy, posted by 10derHeart on April 15, 2005, at 10:30:46
Oh, dear. Oh, dear. I hope all is OK for our Alex.
As for me, today bites the big one. I have a little thread on the main babble board about today's travails.
Feel like not coming back from lunch today.
pc
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 15, 2005, at 14:19:13
In reply to Re: Not hearing from alex: LARRY?, posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 10:39:24
> Any news of alex?
None. Her phone has been off since Monday afternoon.
What do you think....should someome try to make that "connect with the authorities" effort, to have her checked up on?
She's said she would be mortified if that would ever happen, so, out of respect, I've held back.....but I'm feeling very unsettled.
Lar
Posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 14:56:49
In reply to Re: Not hearing from alex: LARRY? » Susan47, posted by Larry Hoover on April 15, 2005, at 14:19:13
Shall we ask the moderator of this board what his advice would be? He's put himself in the position of giving advice, after all. Hasn't he? Or is that my misconception?
Posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 14:58:33
In reply to Re: Not hearing from alex: LARRY? » Susan47, posted by Larry Hoover on April 15, 2005, at 14:19:13
The authorities CAN be inconspicuous, or fairly so, when checking up on somebody .. but then there's always the tongues that wag no matter what. It's really always a matter of circumstance, and I'd hate to hurt her reputation. On the other hand, is this so out of character for her .. yes or no? I've felt like there's no place in this world for me, too, exactly that, and it's a very peaceful place to be, it's a very peaceful feeling. That can be very bad.
Posted by damos on April 15, 2005, at 20:59:30
In reply to Re: Not hearing from alex: LARRY?, posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 14:58:33
Guys, only a brief post as I still haven't got a computer at home - posting from the mall. I have the number of the welfare officer at the uni and emailled Dr Bob to ask his advice - haven't heard back. I'm happy to call them monday (now lunch time Saturday). I have aslo spoken to a former cop in Hamilton who advised that without knowing hr famly name (surname) it'd be tough. I have asked and cant' get any time off for a couple of weeks, but feel like a flight across the creek is warranted. Let me know your thoughts
Posted by gardenergirl on April 15, 2005, at 21:25:31
In reply to Re: Not hearing from alex: LARRY? » Susan47, posted by damos on April 15, 2005, at 20:59:30
I have the number of the university department, down to I think what might be her office number. I was thinking. I have a way I could call that would not necessarily betray that I know her from this board but rather I could mention another interest we have in common.
gg
Posted by 10derHeart on April 15, 2005, at 21:59:36
In reply to Re: Not hearing from alex: LARRY? » damos, posted by gardenergirl on April 15, 2005, at 21:25:31
If either of you wonderful friends would, could, possibly, do any of the things you mentioned, anything....it would be better than where we are now. I think either of you could manage to NOT make her feel mortified, in case that becomes a problem.
Which isn't my main worry, considering some of the alternatives. You guys are the best. I am overwhelmed, in a way, seeing, knowing how much caring there is when one of our own may be in trouble. Makes me feel very, very safe.
Posted by anastasia56 on April 15, 2005, at 22:13:56
In reply to Re: Not hearing from alex: LARRY? » Susan47, posted by damos on April 15, 2005, at 20:59:30
damos,
i knew you would come forward with that offer. You are an incredible person.ana
Posted by 10derHeart on April 15, 2005, at 23:33:18
In reply to Re: Not hearing from alex: LARRY? » damos, posted by anastasia56 on April 15, 2005, at 22:13:56
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