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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SDW on December 8, 2004, at 23:22:09
Very interesting comment about music, Rick.
I have been suffering from dysthymia with anhedonia/apathy for the last 2 years and there was a period of 6-9 months when I didn't/couldn't listen to music. Music that would normally be exciting and pleasurable was either just plain boring or even irritating on occaision.
I also turned to talk/news radio almost entirely, and I didn't turn on my TV for 3 months straight.
There's definately something to this...I think music stimulates the more primitive, emotional parts of the brain, while talk radio is more of a cerebral thing...probably a Dopamine issue.
Posted by cubbybear on December 8, 2004, at 23:22:09
In reply to Music and Depression, posted by SDW on December 8, 2004, at 4:25:48
> Very interesting comment about music, Rick.
>
> I have been suffering from dysthymia with anhedonia/apathy for the last 2 years and there was a period of 6-9 months when I didn't/couldn't listen to music. Music that would normally be exciting and pleasurable was either just plain boring or even irritating on occaision.
>
> I also turned to talk/news radio almost entirely, and I didn't turn on my TV for 3 months straight.
>
> There's definately something to this...I think music stimulates the more primitive, emotional parts of the brain, while talk radio is more of a cerebral thing...probably a Dopamine issue.On the one hand, I think that anyone suffering from anhedonia and severe depression would be less incliined to want to listen to music. Yet I studied MUSIC THERAPY for 4 semesters and the profession draws no boundaries as to who can be helped by music. Countless people with ailments of every kind--ranging from toddlers who just had congenital bone deformities corrected, to elderly people in despair, evidenced signs of improved mental functioning when the therapist found just the "right" instrument or song to present. I saw this with my own eyes in field assignments; institutionalized people became more sociable when live music was brought to their bedside.
Posted by jujube on December 8, 2004, at 23:22:10
In reply to Music and Depression, posted by SDW on December 8, 2004, at 4:25:48
Isn't there an expression "Music soothes the savage beast"? For me, personally, music is very theurapeutic, no matter how down or anxious I am. It can almost be like a life-source for me, evoking a multitude of emotions over the course of any given day. I start my day with music, and listen to music all day when I can. Even at work, I have a radio on my desk so I can hear music while I work.
An interesting study about the effects of music:
by Mary Calvagna, MS
Ever sit in a traffic jam, cars stacked up, one after the other? Slowly, your car inches forward. Just as it appears that you may get up to five miles per hour, the car to your right cuts in front of you. Ugh! You can feel your stress level and your blood pressure rising in unison.
But, right before you blow your top, your favorite song comes on the radio. You start to sing. You tap the steering wheel in time to the beat. You may even try to dance right there in the car. Happily, your blood pressure settles back down.
The magic of music
Music can have an amazing effect on people. It can evoke a memory or make you want to dance. Whistling while you work seems to make the day go by a little quicker. There is even a theory called "The Mozart Effect," which relates listening to Mozart to an increase in IQ points. But can music lower your stress and your blood pressure? A study published in Psychosomatic Medicine* looked at the way music affected these levels during a very stressful situation, surgery.The study included 40 men and women, ages 51 to 87, undergoing outpatient surgery for cataracts or glaucoma. Half the group was given a tape player and headphones for use before, during, and after surgery, and was able to select the type of music they wished to listen to. The other half received no headphones and heard no music during surgery. Blood pressure levels were measured a week before surgery, the morning of surgery, continuously throughout the surgery, and following the surgery.
Blood pressure likes what it hears
As expected, both groups experienced a significant rise in blood pressure the morning of the surgery. However, the patients who listened to music returned to their normal blood pressure levels within five minutes of hearing the music. Their blood pressure stayed at that level during and after the surgery. The patients without the music had elevated blood pressure levels throughout their surgeries.Although both groups reported high degrees of stress before the surgery, the group who listened to music felt less stress and more control after the surgery. It is normal for a person to feel a lack of control when it comes to surgery. Researchers surmised that allowing the patients to listen to the music of their choice may have increased their feelings of control. This probably helped to reduce their stress. In addition, the music may have reduced stress by distracting the patients.
"Music is a safe, enjoyable, inexpensive, noninvasive, and non-drug treatment with no adverse effects," the study's lead author concluded. Although larger studies are needed, it appears that music may be a sweet-sounding alternative for reducing the stress of surgery.
* "Normalization of hypertension responses during ambulatory surgical stress by perioperative music," by K Allen et al. Psychosomatic Medicine, May/June 2001, Volume 63, Issue 3, pp. 487-492.
Posted by becksA on December 8, 2004, at 23:22:10
In reply to Re: Music and Depression, posted by jujube on December 8, 2004, at 9:55:33
Question is, are there certain TYPES of music that help more than others? Or does it more depend on what that person likes. For instance, when depressed, if I turned up some heavy metal driving home, I might just get so down and angry that I'd drive myself off the road. However if I listen to something I like, obviously I feel better.
With that said, I think there can be a medium. For example, listen to something that you don't particularly get "into", and buy cd's, but don't particularly dislike it either...say, soothing music like enya...No matter what, you're bound to feel a relaxing feeling.
Posted by anastasia56 on December 8, 2004, at 23:22:10
In reply to Music and Depression, posted by SDW on December 8, 2004, at 4:25:48
I agree. When I am depressed I can't/won't listen to music. I have switched to talk radio only because during those periods the music wasn't fun or soothing but irritating.
Posted by BariTenor on December 8, 2004, at 23:22:11
In reply to Music and Depression, posted by SDW on December 8, 2004, at 4:25:48
I agree completely. During a real depressive episode, specifically right now, music that would normally move me deeply becomes thin and tinny-sounding. That only makes me feel worse.
> Very interesting comment about music, Rick.
>
> I have been suffering from dysthymia with anhedonia/apathy for the last 2 years and there was a period of 6-9 months when I didn't/couldn't listen to music. Music that would normally be exciting and pleasurable was either just plain boring or even irritating on occaision.
>
> I also turned to talk/news radio almost entirely, and I didn't turn on my TV for 3 months straight.
>
> There's definately something to this...I think music stimulates the more primitive, emotional parts of the brain, while talk radio is more of a cerebral thing...probably a Dopamine issue.
Posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 5:59:07
In reply to Re: Music and Depression » SDW, posted by BariTenor on December 8, 2004, at 18:41:27
I was horrified that my passion for music was being left behind by my depression. I am an avid classical singer and I hardly even do that any more.
I agree with all your comments. The type of music I listen to is very much influenced by my mood. I will headbang with my husband's ACDC's "Thunderstruck" on a good day, but if my mood is wrong, the song (or songs like it) can cause me severe harm (and anyone in the near vicinity). The same would apply for lighter or my more classical music. I have days when it lifts me up and makes me feel powerful and happy (well, those days haven't been for awhile now), and then days when listening to this empowering music can drive me to the depths of despair.
More often than not, I find I am turning to silence to sooth me. Only to have the neighborhood dogs bark incessantly!
Sabrina
Posted by AdaGrace on December 9, 2004, at 6:36:00
In reply to Re: Music and Depression, posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 5:59:07
Have you heard of "Madeliene Peyroux" Not sure if I spelled that right....but she is lovely, jazzy, sounds like smooth rich creamy coffee.
Posted by partlycloudy on December 9, 2004, at 7:33:22
In reply to Re: Music and Depression, posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 5:59:07
I get quite frantic if the music on the radio doesn't match my mood. And when I'm in a dark place, I crave silence. An upbeat tune just enrages me.
Favourite soothers include piano sonatas, Gregorian chants, nature CD's. p.s. the Pacific Ocean CD is noisier than the Atlantic.
Posted by Atticus on December 9, 2004, at 8:16:20
In reply to Re: Music and Depression, posted by partlycloudy on December 9, 2004, at 7:33:22
I definitely seek out or avoid music depending on whether I'm in a depressive or hypomanic part of my bipolar cycle. Hypomania leads me to punk and garage rock -- music that's fast and loud and aggressive. But if I'm in the mood to write a poem, I always play Bob Dylan, as his mastery of lyrics gets my brain moving in the right emotional and creative direction. When I'm severely depressed, like a lot of you, I can't stand any music at all. But there are environmental aspects, too. I've learned from hard experience never to listen to my favorite group, Nirvana, on a rainy day like today. I love Cobain's work, but under the wrong circumstances, it gets my thoughts spiraling in a bad direction. Atticus
Posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 8:30:25
In reply to Re: Music and Depression, posted by Atticus on December 9, 2004, at 8:16:20
Atticus - Nirvana is just ....... is just ......... Oh so WOW!!! But I agree, for me, only certain moods allow appreciation of them. Otherwise their music will defeat the object and only make "me" worse.
Sabrina from the Restless Buttocks Punk Rock Band in the making!
(That's punk rock with an opera singer, mind you)
Posted by Atticus on December 9, 2004, at 8:51:57
In reply to Re: Music and Depression » Atticus, posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 8:30:25
So what's your favorite Nirvana song? Mine's "Heart-Shaped Box." And "Nevermind" is one of my two favorite albums (tied with "London Calling" by The Clash). Atticus
Posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 8:56:36
In reply to Re: Music and Depression » saw, posted by Atticus on December 9, 2004, at 8:51:57
"Smells like Team Spirit" is cool. My used to be a pro club / hip hop dancer and boy can he dance to it!
Posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 9:01:12
In reply to Re: Music and Depression » Atticus, posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 8:56:36
My, is my husband BTW
Posted by Atticus on December 9, 2004, at 9:02:31
In reply to Re: Music and Depression » Atticus, posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 8:56:36
Hypomanic change of subject: So how come you never comment on my poems? Just curious. ;) Atticus
Posted by Atticus on December 9, 2004, at 10:24:58
In reply to Re: Music and Depression » Atticus, posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 8:30:25
Debut single from first album ("Bum's Rush") by the new punk band Restless Buttocks, featuring Sabrina (see her prior posts above):
She got rest--less buttocks,
Put major mojo moves on you,
She got rest--less buttocks,
Clear the way, let 'er through,
She got rest--less buttocks
And she headin' straight for you,
She got rest--less buttocks,
What you gonna do?(Chorus)
Rest--less buttocks, rest--less buttocks,
Rest--less buttocks, rest--less buttocks,
Say a girl with restless buttocks
Don't never need no rest,
Say a girl with restless buttocks
Put a man to the test.She got rest--less buttocks,
Just a blur down there,
She got rest-less buttocks,
Don't never need no chair,
She got rest-less buttocks,
Here and there and everywhere,
She got rest-less buttocks
Listen, boy, you best prepare.(Repeat chorus)
(Copyright 2004 Smart@ss Records)
Posted by gromit on December 9, 2004, at 19:06:55
In reply to Music and Depression, posted by SDW on December 8, 2004, at 4:25:48
> Very interesting comment about music, Rick.
>
> I have been suffering from dysthymia with anhedonia/apathy for the last 2 years and there was a period of 6-9 months when I didn't/couldn't listen to music. Music that would normally be exciting and pleasurable was either just plain boring or even irritating on occaision.
>
> I also turned to talk/news radio almost entirely, and I didn't turn on my TV for 3 months straight.
>
> There's definately something to this...I think music stimulates the more primitive, emotional parts of the brain, while talk radio is more of a cerebral thing...probably a Dopamine issue.All these comments seem to make alot of sense, the weird thing to me is this happened AFTER I started Lexapro. I still have anhedonia/apathy, if anything it is even worse on an SSRI. I think you are right, the only drugs illegal or otherwise that have helped me effect dopamine.
Thanks
Rick
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 9, 2004, at 23:29:42
In reply to Music and Depression, posted by SDW on December 8, 2004, at 4:25:48
I was like that once too and now know when I lose the music I am in deep do
> Very interesting comment about music, Rick.
>
> I have been suffering from dysthymia with anhedonia/apathy for the last 2 years and there was a period of 6-9 months when I didn't/couldn't listen to music. Music that would normally be exciting and pleasurable was either just plain boring or even irritating on occaision.
>
> I also turned to talk/news radio almost entirely, and I didn't turn on my TV for 3 months straight.
>
> There's definately something to this...I think music stimulates the more primitive, emotional parts of the brain, while talk radio is more of a cerebral thing...probably a Dopamine issue.
Posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 23:55:53
In reply to Re: poems » saw, posted by Atticus on December 9, 2004, at 9:02:31
I've commented on a few.
I read them all. Some are funny, some make me sad, some even gross me out a little. Ok, here's my confession. There are a few of your excellent poems that I simply do not understand. Then I become to shy to comment.
I love writing but I have never held the talent of writing poems such as you have. I saved mine for singing. You could write me a few songs. Actually you just wrote one didn't you. I'm going to read it now
Sabrina
Posted by saw on December 10, 2004, at 0:01:48
In reply to Re: Music and Depression » saw, posted by Atticus on December 9, 2004, at 10:24:58
Atticus, I AM SPEECHLESS.
This is brilliant.
My young brother-in-law plays drums in an up and coming local punk-rock band. (I will have to ask his permission if I can share the band's name on-line). They absolutely refuse to sing cover versions. They wrote a wonderful rock rendition of "one two three four five, once I caught a fish alive".
I am going to give them these lyrics to put a song to.
Everytime it is sung, it will be dedicated to Atticus by Sabrina's sentiment.
Thank you for this. You made me feel truly special.
Sabrina
Posted by Atticus on December 10, 2004, at 0:04:11
In reply to Re: poems » Atticus, posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 23:55:53
Wellll, actually I banged out the punk piece above more as a goofy response to your post about Restless Buttocks than as a real song. Hope you'll take it in the silly spirit it was intended -- something written by someone tripping along through a hypomanic phase. Ta. Atticus
Posted by Atticus on December 10, 2004, at 0:10:26
In reply to Re: Music and Depression » Atticus, posted by saw on December 10, 2004, at 0:01:48
Whew! After I posted it, I was a bit afraid you might be embarrassed by it. I'm not exactly thinking things through at the moment. When I'm hypomanic like this, it's "do it" first, "think about the consequences once it's too late to take it back." Hope they have fun with it and it gave you a laugh. Ta. ;) Atticus
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