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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 39 to 63 of 63. Go back in thread:
Posted by TofuEmmy on November 21, 2004, at 16:01:09
In reply to PuppetMaster » KaraS, posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 2:20:04
Who else incites more discord and upset on this site? Why is it that there is seemingly ALWAYS something disruptive going here? Is it a coincidence?? Or not? Hmmmm....
It's just NEVER calm here. That's just plain wierd. Instead of doing something therapeutic which could calm things, he seems to poke us with a lab tool - aka new rule. It's his hobby - poking us. If I ran this site, I would have emailed the refrequent reporter and said, "Thank you, but I don't need your assistance. Cease and desist all reporting or you will be blocked for 3 months". Sorry, but despite good intentions, the reporter has not demonstrated appropriate sensitivity in this reporting, imho.
Bob - if you feel put down, I'm sorry. But it's like someone saying my butt is fat. It's an unfortunate truth, and a good reminder that I need to change my behavior.
em
Posted by KaraS on November 21, 2004, at 16:44:47
In reply to OK Corral, posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 3:29:03
> My problem with this site is mostly with the "set", the enclosure. I like movies, and all and love to play pretend, but my frolic is interrupted when I'm cramped...
Hard to have it otherwise on an Internet site though.
> Here we have several "corrals" and rules about guests.I don't follow you about the rules about guests though there certainly are lots of rules in general.
Add to that a supreme being - don't worry it's still a western - add more supreme being - don't worry, it's still science-fiction.
>
> well, love.
>
> I can't express the love or hurt I feel. Just wishing, hoping. I'm not kidding or sarcastic.
>
> I called someone back on the Pacific Zone, back when, nice to touch base, hurts. I'm really just looking for a lost love.
>
> In alot of pain. It hurts so much.(((verne)))
Did you just contact that old girlfriend you mentioned in an earlier thread? Love can hurt too much. That's why I stay away from it. I'm much too vulnerable and chicken ____. Good for you for being brave and taking the risk though.
Despite all of the rules that cramp our styles, isn't it nice to be able to pour your heart out here and get support?
K
Posted by KaraS on November 21, 2004, at 16:51:14
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » KaraS, posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2004, at 7:13:12
> > different mental health problems can manifest in different ways. Sometimes they lead people to do things that cause pain to others.
>
> I think general statements like that are OK...
>
> > The posts that are brought up for "review" are not really the issue here. They are just excuses for getting attention.
>
> But that's more specific, so keeping in mind that the idea here is not to jump to conclusions about others or to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, could you please rephrase that?
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Thanks,
>
> BobDr. Bob,
I have thought about this a lot and I'm not sure I can rephrase those 2 sentences without losing the meaning entirely. I am open for suggestions though. Perhaps it is better if I just say let's strike them completely from the record.Kara
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2004, at 18:51:35
In reply to The Puppet Master is a troll....imho, posted by TofuEmmy on November 21, 2004, at 16:01:09
> If I ran this site, I would have emailed the refrequent reporter and said, "Thank you, but I don't need your assistance. Cease and desist all reporting or you will be blocked for 3 months".
I'd rather try to find a middle ground?
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2004, at 18:51:42
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dr. Bob, posted by KaraS on November 21, 2004, at 16:51:14
> > > different mental health problems can manifest in different ways. Sometimes they lead people to do things that cause pain to others.
> >
> > I think general statements like that are OK...
> >
> > > The posts that are brought up for "review" are not really the issue here. They are just excuses for getting attention.
>
> I have thought about this a lot and I'm not sure I can rephrase those 2 sentences without losing the meaning entirely. I am open for suggestions though. Perhaps it is better if I just say let's strike them completely from the record.We can strike them, but one suggestion might be to continue to be general, for example:
> > > Sometimes part of it may be that they don't want to be neglected.
Bob
Posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 18:56:46
In reply to Re: OK Corral » verne, posted by KaraS on November 21, 2004, at 16:44:47
"K" was the main character in many Kafka stories. One of my favorite authors.
I called people I hadn't seen or heard from in years but I was in no shape to contact the former girlfriend. I'm too traumatized by the prospect. I'm in too much emotional pain right now.
I need to put the "reunion" in abeyance. I love the word "abeyance" - it's like an easy chair or comfortable sofa.
Meanwhile, I'm drinking for the second day but hope to keep it down to a reasonable level. I'm just hoping my liver doesn't spontaneously eject.
My show, "American Dreams" is coming on in a few minutes. It's a "soap opera" set in the 60's around American Bandstand. They started out in autumn 1963 and are now in 65 I think. My mother drank herself to death on the day JFK was murdered. I wonder how many people went off the edge that day.
V
Posted by TofuEmmy on November 21, 2004, at 19:00:59
In reply to Re: suggestion, posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2004, at 18:51:42
Bob - But this has allowed ONE person to cause MONTHS of upheaval on this site. Does that really make sense to you? A simple personal request from you outlining your reasoning, and consequences for continued disruption just seems fairer to the majority who post here.
Thank you for letting me express this.
em
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 21, 2004, at 19:37:26
In reply to Re: suggestion, posted by TofuEmmy on November 21, 2004, at 19:00:59
Dr. Hsiung,
I am requesting that you ask the poster to identify the person that they are referring to as [...this ONE person to cause MONTHS of upheaval...] or for you to identify the poster referred to as to how you interprett this thread. If you could have the poster in question identified, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou Pilder
Posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 20:21:04
In reply to To Dr. Hsiung, posted by Lou Pilder on November 21, 2004, at 19:37:26
Posted by TofuEmmy on November 21, 2004, at 20:55:34
In reply to To Dr. Hsiung, posted by Lou Pilder on November 21, 2004, at 19:37:26
Lou - I'm talking about my friend GardenerGirl. She is VERY disruptive!!! Thank you for asking.
emmy
Posted by gardenergirl on November 21, 2004, at 21:00:42
In reply to Re: To Dr. Hsiung » Lou Pilder, posted by TofuEmmy on November 21, 2004, at 20:55:34
Posted by TofuEmmy on November 21, 2004, at 21:04:22
In reply to I resemble that remark! (nm) » TofuEmmy, posted by gardenergirl on November 21, 2004, at 21:00:42
I SINCERELY apologize if I hurt your feeling, my beloved GG!! You know how much your friendship means to me!! (I was hoping to get at least one more pic of your gorgeous hubbie b4 we go our separate ways....)
But someone had to stop you!!! :-)
Love you!!
Kisses, TofuButt
Posted by gardenergirl on November 21, 2004, at 21:05:38
In reply to Re: I resemble that remark! » gardenergirl, posted by TofuEmmy on November 21, 2004, at 21:04:22
Apology accepted, but how in the heck to you kiss your tofubutt?
Are you a yogi?
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on November 21, 2004, at 21:07:11
In reply to Re: I resemble that remark! » TofuEmmy, posted by gardenergirl on November 21, 2004, at 21:05:38
> Apology accepted, but how in the heck to you kiss your tofubutt?
>
> Are you a yogi?
>
> ggNow look what you made me do. It was supposed to say, "how in the heck DO YOU kiss your tofubutt?"
Posted by Glydin on November 21, 2004, at 22:45:18
In reply to Extinction of behavior, posted by gardenergirl on November 21, 2004, at 13:15:56
But if the ignoring or not reinforcing of a behavior continues, eventually the behavior does stop.
~~~I did try this once with a bullying situation, it did become successful when they were sent to prison----(true)
Posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 23:40:57
In reply to Re: I resemble that remark! » gardenergirl, posted by TofuEmmy on November 21, 2004, at 21:04:22
I love what you're doing.
verne
Posted by saw on November 22, 2004, at 1:38:03
In reply to Re: partlycloudy--- » AdaGrace, posted by partlycloudy on November 20, 2004, at 12:30:48
<<i hate myself>>
I am just so sad, so sad by that. You didn't deserve this. You were, and still are, doing so well.
I don't hate you.
S
PS. When I told B I had a friend who lives in America, where the hurricanes happened, he asked if he could get on the plane to give you a hug. (He DOESN'T hug people he does not know).
Posted by AuntieMel on November 22, 2004, at 10:07:21
In reply to Andromeda, posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 4:13:57
Soylent green.
Posted by KaraS on November 22, 2004, at 16:36:54
In reply to Re: suggestion, posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2004, at 18:51:42
> > > > different mental health problems can manifest in different ways. Sometimes they lead people to do things that cause pain to others.
> > >
> > > I think general statements like that are OK...
> > >
> > > > The posts that are brought up for "review" are not really the issue here. They are just excuses for getting attention.
> >
> > I have thought about this a lot and I'm not sure I can rephrase those 2 sentences without losing the meaning entirely. I am open for suggestions though. Perhaps it is better if I just say let's strike them completely from the record.
>
> We can strike them, but one suggestion might be to continue to be general, for example:
>
> > > > Sometimes part of it may be that they don't want to be neglected.
>
> Bob
Perhaps but that seems so oblique as to not get the point across at all (?) I don't know. I'll give it a try next time and see what happens.K
Posted by KaraS on November 22, 2004, at 16:51:16
In reply to In Abeyance » KaraS, posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 18:56:46
> "K" was the main character in many Kafka stories. One of my favorite authors.
It was by accident that I use that letter. How fitting for me that it be Kafka-esque however.
> I called people I hadn't seen or heard from in years but I was in no shape to contact the former girlfriend. I'm too traumatized by the prospect. I'm in too much emotional pain right now.You're not in the right place now to contact her. It's good that you recognize that.
> I need to put the "reunion" in abeyance. I love the word "abeyance" - it's like an easy chair or comfortable sofa.Yes, and it's so temporary sounding.
> Meanwhile, I'm drinking for the second day but hope to keep it down to a reasonable level. I'm just hoping my liver doesn't spontaneously eject.I hope so too. Maybe a different medication that dampens the desire for alcohol might benefit you(?)
> My show, "American Dreams" is coming on in a few minutes. It's a "soap opera" set in the 60's around American Bandstand. They started out in autumn 1963 and are now in 65 I think. My mother drank herself to death on the day JFK was murdered. I wonder how many people went off the edge that day.
>
> VI've watched that show a few times but haven't seen it recently. I'll have to check it out again.
Well, it seems that this day is as horrific for you as it is for me. On that exact same day (November 22, 1963) my father died of a massive coronary. One of my best friends from age 4 was born on November 22. She died in a car accident at age 16. This is a day that is too horrible for words. Wish we could skip from November 21 to November 23.
Kara
Posted by KaraS on November 22, 2004, at 17:05:21
In reply to Extinction of behavior, posted by gardenergirl on November 21, 2004, at 13:15:56
> Hi,
> I just wanted to say a couple things about how ignoring a behavior can make it go away eventually. In behavioral terms, that is true, and it's often a good way to deal with problem behaviors. But a note of caution... In the process, the behavior can, and often does increase for a time before it goes away. This is called an extinction burst. It can lead to frustration and to giving up the behavioral "plan" to ignore behavior because it seems like it isn't working. But if the ignoring or not reinforcing of a behavior continues, eventually the behavior does stop.
>
> Just thought I'd drop some theory in. I'll turn the lectern over to someone else now. :-)
>
> gg
Good point! Reminds me of the Her....imer (?) effect where the dying off microbes make more trouble for a while as they release their toxins before they finally expire.K
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 22, 2004, at 22:22:48
In reply to Re: suggestion, posted by TofuEmmy on November 21, 2004, at 19:00:59
> A simple personal request from you outlining your reasoning, and consequences for continued disruption just seems fairer to the majority who post here.
I replied over at PB Administration. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/419149.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on November 23, 2004, at 19:10:31
In reply to Extinction of behavior, posted by gardenergirl on November 21, 2004, at 13:15:56
Actually extinction might not work in this case as there could be other, or even internal reinforcers that are beyond our control...
Behaviourism doesn't work so well anymore as people become verbal, because then they can follow 'inner' or 'covert' rules. (I am not sure how behaviourists are allowed to talk about 'inner' rules - but anyway, they do...)
On a lighter note one of the die hard behaviourists from varsity who I argue with all the time told me something really funny today...
He said that it is currently a hot topic in JEABA, or maybe the other one - whether it might be legitimate in some cases to postulate the existance of inner, mental states. William Baum (revered writer of "Understanding Behaviourism") was one of the authors. Apparantly it is at the response to the response to the response to the response stage...
Anyway, he said that he was starting to think it might be okay in some cases.
I said 'well, some think that that debate was fairly conclusively settled in the 60's' and he asked what I meant. I replied 'well, many think that OF COURSE it is okay, and that was when the majority turned to cognitive science and abandoned behaviourism. It is pretty funny that the debate has come up again now! You do realise Bill, that if you change your mind now then there is about 40 years of cognitive science research that you are going to have to catch up on!'
I think I offended him (you should have seen the look on his face!).
I dare say he mightn't write me a reference now, however, it was worth it!
This has been giving me chuckles all day :-)
Posted by gardenergirl on November 23, 2004, at 21:07:35
In reply to Re: Extinction of behavior, posted by alexandra_k on November 23, 2004, at 19:10:31
> Actually extinction might not work in this case as there could be other, or even internal reinforcers that are beyond our control...
Yes, you can never exactly get at all reinforcers when there are internal ones. One of the reasons I am not a behaviorist. And my dog is living proof of that. She has US trained very well.
> Behaviourism doesn't work so well anymore as people become verbal, because then they can follow 'inner' or 'covert' rules. (I am not sure how behaviourists are allowed to talk about 'inner' rules - but anyway, they do...)
>
> On a lighter note one of the die hard behaviourists from varsity who I argue with all the time told me something really funny today...
>
> He said that it is currently a hot topic in JEABA, or maybe the other one - whether it might be legitimate in some cases to postulate the existance of inner, mental states. William Baum (revered writer of "Understanding Behaviourism") was one of the authors. Apparantly it is at the response to the response to the response to the response stage...
>
> Anyway, he said that he was starting to think it might be okay in some cases.
>
> I said 'well, some think that that debate was fairly conclusively settled in the 60's' and he asked what I meant. I replied 'well, many think that OF COURSE it is okay, and that was when the majority turned to cognitive science and abandoned behaviourism. It is pretty funny that the debate has come up again now! You do realise Bill, that if you change your mind now then there is about 40 years of cognitive science research that you are going to have to catch up on!'
>
> I think I offended him (you should have seen the look on his face!).
>
> I dare say he mightn't write me a reference now, however, it was worth it!
>
> This has been giving me chuckles all day :-)Oh, that's too funny. Good for you! I love debating theory with faculty. It's stimulating, and it helps me to articulate why I believe what I do when debating it with someone else.
Of course my current supervisor is not interested in debating it. He barely tolerates anything I say about when I conceptualize someone dynamically. In fact, today he jumped on me when I said something about someone's CSA being related to insecure attachment she has with her husband. It's getting old, his jumping on that. I KNOW that I have to treat them in a short-term problem solving model. It's just that I conceptualize the whole person in context, and I don't think that's bad. You can't treat a single problem in a vacuum. I'm sure he could tell I was getting upset with him. Heck, I almost started to cry, cause it was a rotten, very busy day. But good for me, I held it together. AAnd I sucked up and said, "maybe I'm not articulating well how I conceptualize one way, but treat your way." And he said, "Maybe I'm primed to jump on references to childhood." (Ya think?)
Anyway, never a dull moment, eh?
How is the "T-word" coming? I can't take a laptop with me to Florida tomorrow, so I am trying organize my "D-word" materials to make maximum use of my time off. Sad, I know.
Take care,
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on November 24, 2004, at 15:22:35
In reply to Re: Extinction of behavior----tangent » alexandra_k, posted by gardenergirl on November 23, 2004, at 21:07:35
> How is the "T-word" coming? I can't take a laptop with me to Florida tomorrow, so I am trying organize my "D-word" materials to make maximum use of my time off. Sad, I know.
The T-word is taking a back burner at the moment. I need to polish my writing sample for PhD applications, and we have conference starting on Sunday. I am presenting on Monday at 12. I do hope it doesn't get ripped apart tooooooo much :-)
Wish me luck!
I am actually hoping that I can get an extension to hand in around June or July rather than Feb (eep). Otherwise it looks like I shall have a very busy christmas indeed.
You are very good to take your work with you... I hope you have a wonderful holiday and get absolutely nothing done :-)
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