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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 18 to 42 of 61. Go back in thread:
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 10:55:15
In reply to SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT, posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 10:53:37
This is hurting me. Stop it.
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 10:55:50
In reply to Re: SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT: SCOTT, posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 10:55:15
Answer please, over here.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 27, 2004, at 11:24:21
In reply to Re: SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT: SCOTT, posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 10:55:50
Take a breath. Please. WE'VE got to stay calm if we are to help.
And [badwordhere] I'm leaving in a bit to go away for the weekend.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 27, 2004, at 11:34:31
In reply to B2, posted by Scott in Vermont on August 26, 2004, at 15:42:35
The way I read things the two of you don't have immediate, right this minute, plans. Good. I'm probably away from the computer for the weekend and I would like a chance to discuss your value further before you do anything.
Promise you'll wait 'till I get back and we can talk more.
Both of you have helped me immensely in the past.
So, for now, don't follow your feelings. USE YOUR BRAINS instead. If you *think* you well see that a lot of people will be hurt if you leave. Very hurt. Remember those you rely on when in stress?? Well, they rely on you, too.
TTFN
Mel
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 27, 2004, at 12:25:32
In reply to B2 Scott (sorta from Shadows.....by way of Emmy), posted by tofuemmy on August 27, 2004, at 6:25:03
Posted by zenhussy on August 27, 2004, at 13:28:45
In reply to Re: SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT: SCOTT, posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 10:55:15
> This is hurting me. Stop it.
From the FAQ http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#suicidal :
How should I respond to a poster who's suicidal?
To quote from below, this is a toughie. I think this is a good discussion of the issues, however:I think all we can do is be supportive of that person with words. Having been in similar situations in the past, I've found that type of support helps me hang on until I can get real help.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/232914.htmlMixed bag, I'm afraid. Many will actually be crying out for attention while others are crying wolf. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes, and there lies the rub. When do we take it seriously enough to act upon someone's statements? I have seen it go both ways. Personally, I would err on the side of caution, and would reach out to someone with suicidal ideations posted (even in veiled terms) on this board.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/232994.htmlI feel like all I *can* say to support someone here who is suicidal is "Go get help." I don't think this board is equipped to do more than that. Mostly, I think people can share their struggles with suicidal feelings and get a lot of support here, but it will never be the kind of support that will keep them safe when they cannot keep themselves safe. But I think sometimes the crying out process can be very frustrating to others if the person rejects help or returns in a better mood as though nothing happened. All of which can cause serious compassion fatigue, I think. And I don't necessarily judge anyone who does any of those things as a bad person or anything, and I tend to see this kind of behavior as a symptom of how distressed they really must be, which breaks my heart! But the behavior also does have the potential to anger me, maybe because it seriously pushes my own helplessness buttons. And break my heart though it might, I might have to withdraw from a discussion if this happens because I can't let my own inner resources be depleted.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/233022.htmlI guess I've always thought, if not here then where? Obviously if someone is in imminent danger, they should seek real life help. But sometimes maybe they need a bit of a reality check, or validation, or something that they should do that. I know that I would be hesitant to present myself at my emergency room door, no matter what my condition, because I would have this desire not to make a big fuss. As far as [crying wolf] is concerned, it's part of the illness just as much as suicide attempts are. Just because something feels manipulative doesn't mean the attempt is to manipulate. Or rather, I accept Marsha Linehan's view of suicidal behaviors. It may be the only way a person knows of asking for what they want or need. My own decision about what to do to protect myself is to realize my limitations. There are only a very few people here who I have any possibility of physically helping. And on a forum like this, suicidal crises will occur from time to time. It's scary because I would hate to say anything that might make matters worse. But I have absolutely no expectations that anything I say could make matters better. I just don't have that power. And not saying anything is an action as well. So, since I wish to participate here, I just have to hope for the best, but remove myself from it a bit emotionally. Accept my impotence. Even find safety in my impotence. Extend a hand, maybe, but feel no responsibility if it isn't taken. That's my own way of making it possible to participate here. Others have their own ways.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/233048.htmlSpeaking from my own experience of chronic suicidal ideation, and the times I've posted here about wanting to die, what I want back is an acknowledgement that other people feel that way too and have survived, and reminders that it is probably a temporary situation (that it feels so intense). And, some people express caring thoughts and wishes, and that helps too. As someone else said, one gets a feel on the board for the real deal sometimes. And at that time the only thing I'd say is "go get help in real time." I also like the term "compassion fatigue" because that is a real phenomenon that makes me look at suicidal messages very cautiously.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/233113.htmlThis is a toughie. Everyone has weighed in with quite thoughtful responses. For some this is it. This is their last cry for help and for those posters who are mentally and emotionally up to supporting a suicidal poster then great. But to expect miracles to occur if someone is intent on killing themselves is just draining to the entire community. Those that are not up to supporting suicidal posters need to recognize their own needs and take care of themselves. Yes it can bring up feelings of helplessness, anger or resentment but those feelings can be dealt with in another thread or in e-mail or through another avenue of support. No one is forced to read any threads on this board. And if suicidal posters are too triggering then avoid those posts at all costs. If one is in the position to offer up support to a suicidal poster then they can only type in information. Many here have been suicidal just once and others have suicidal thoughts daily but just have learned not to act on them. There is a plethora of sympathy and empathy for being in that horrible place where death seems like the correct and only answer. The people who post to suicidal posters are trying to bring a glimmer of light back into the darkness that has closed in on one of us.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/233185.htmlFor myself, I might just not reply. Especially if I see others who are replying supportively. I just bow myself out of it because that might be what I need to do. But I agree, it would not, IMHO, be appropriate to reply angrily, even if this is how I felt. I have seen people, a couple of times, however, once the crisis seemed over, post frankly, but supportively, with people about the frustration of wanting to help but feeling like they are both asking for help and pushing it away, and that other people weren't sure what to do about that. But that is different than reacting angrily to posts.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/233241.htmlWe all are entitled to feel as we feel. Some people get angry, some get reminded of previous losses we have endured and get very sad, others still when faced with a truly pained suicidal post are forced to face that darkness within themselves. Some of us have attempted suicide and when reading about another in that deep dark hopeless crushing place it can be too triggering to one's own memories of their experiences.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/233307.htmlSusan,
Perhaps looking at how your involvement here is affecting you might be useful for your own well being.
Two excerpts from my posts are in the above faq about how to respond to a poster who is suicidal.
I would amend my words now as I've watched too many suicides play out on this board to engage in it any longer.
Dr. Hsiung is the final authority as to what happens on his board. If someone pleads for help and Dr. Hsiung doesn't contact the ISP in time or what have you it falls on his shoulders.
NEVER EVER should any poster here feel responsible for the life of another!!!!!!!!!
If that is the case then there is something terribly wrong with the support environment that has been crafted here. Take up your concerns with the administration.
Take care of yourself first as nobody else here is going to step in and do that for you............just as no on can step in for Scott or B2C.
I wish you peace and hope you contact your own support team so that you are well taken care of.
--zh
Posted by Scott in Vermont on August 27, 2004, at 13:50:02
In reply to Re: Susan47 please read, posted by zenhussy on August 27, 2004, at 13:28:45
ZH,
I'm impressed. That was an incredible post. Everyone should read it.
Posted by zenhussy on August 27, 2004, at 13:58:46
In reply to Re: Susan47 please read » zenhussy, posted by Scott in Vermont on August 27, 2004, at 13:50:02
> ZH,
>
> I'm impressed. That was an incredible post. Everyone should read it.Scott,
I just reposted the FAQ from a thread a year ago where posters talked about how to deal with suicidal posters. It was gathered up into the FAQ by Dr. Hsiung.
I tend to forget just how varied we all are in our responses to these situations.
I thought it might help some here to read these words from posters who had been on the site for years and seen the ups and downs of suicidal postings as Dr. Hsiung's civility rules morphed and allowed for more restricted expression.
That said.............I still care about you you knucklehead!! I don't have any pithy answers or suggestions for you other than to listen to TofuEmmy as she is a wise soycube.
Kindly and with respect for your choices,
--zh
Posted by Scott in Vermont on August 27, 2004, at 14:49:38
In reply to Re: can't stop me from caring you knucklehead = ) » Scott in Vermont, posted by zenhussy on August 27, 2004, at 13:58:46
I've read all the responses. All of them. I wish I had the time to respond to them individually. It would take me a couple of hours, and I don't have that kind of time (I only do this at work, but if Dr Bob calls my ISP, that's going to change, and I'll get fired, and well, a lot of things will change after that) but anyway, I'm fragmented into many parts now. Some parts of me want to scream because I don't WANT anyone to care. STOP CARING, DAMN YOU! But other parts of me are so deeply moved that I have had an impact on other people, that my words have meant something to people... that's powerful. But then I turn the corner to guilt... gahhh... my old "friend" guilt... many emotions swim and churn. Fear is a major one right now. I forgot about the whole ISP contact thing. My ISP is my employer. If Dr Bob calls my employer, my timeline for "whatever" will become so accelerated that I won't have any idea what will happen, and really, my job is what has kept me afloat this long because I really like my job and my job provides me with an income that allows me to live around here. So hey, Dr Bob, if you're reading this, put the phone down, I'll be good. Really. I was kidding.
You know, this sucks. I've gone from fear to terror. I can't lose my job. I can't. I just got a child support order in the mail yesterday. If I get fired and I can't pay the order I'll lose my hunting licence and I'll lose my drivers licence and I'll have to move and I could get thrown in jail if I don't get a job soon enough and there's no way I'll get a job in Communications in Vermont making what I'm making right now because the only other games in town are Verizon and Adelphia, and I won't work for either one of them for ethical reasons. So I guess it's back to the saw mill. Hello $7 an hour and no benefits. Not that there is anything wrong with that at all. I had a lot of pride in my work when I was at the mill. But it's not a salary that provides a living wage when you're giving $1,000 a month to someone else.
This sucks. This really sucks. So ZH, when you said Dr Bob knows about what's going on here, what exactly did you mean by that anyway? Because if my ISP (re: my employer) is notified about my posts on Babble... shoot, if I was ever going to use an uncivil phrase here, this would be the moment.
I'm going to go have a cigarette.
- Scott (who's not very happy about having the power of decision taken out of my hands once again)
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:32:33
In reply to Re: can't stop me from caring you knucklehead = ), posted by Scott in Vermont on August 27, 2004, at 14:49:38
Scott,
"So hey, Dr Bob, if you're reading this, put the phone down, I'll be good. Really. I was kidding"Are you lying? I hope not.
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:40:30
In reply to Re: can't stop me from caring you knucklehead = ) » Scott in Vermont, posted by zenhussy on August 27, 2004, at 13:58:46
Zenhussy,
Thank you for putting up the post. I was reading yours as well, and got all achy in my bones. It feels like you're slapping my hands. So I'll never tell anyone on here again they're hurting me. I can see that wasn't fair; I wasn't thinking about being fair.
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:46:48
In reply to Re: can't stop me from caring you knucklehead = ), posted by Scott in Vermont on August 27, 2004, at 14:49:38
Posting in this very public place was also a decision you made. In my opinion, it was a good one.
Posted by Jai Narayan on August 27, 2004, at 15:50:13
In reply to For Scott, posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:46:48
Susan You sound real strong and clear. I like that.
I am happy that Scott cares about about his job and the child's support. That's a good sign.
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:57:44
In reply to Susan great reply...., posted by Jai Narayan on August 27, 2004, at 15:50:13
I have lousy replies, and that's okay. Someday I may be doing what Scott's doing today. He doesn't like that I drew attention to his situation; but he *did* post here after all and there was a reason for that, so if I embarrassed him, oh well. Those are the risks you take here. He'll do what he does and I did what I did. I'm embarrassed sometimes too. That's life. But thanks for being supportive, that was very nice of you. I think it's important to be honest to myself no matter what anybody else thinks; they can give input and that's welcome. So I'll always sound strong, no matter how wrong I'll be later.
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 16:02:56
In reply to Re: Susan great reply...., posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:57:44
I'm ashamed of myself for saying that. Of course I don't know what Scott is; only Scott knows. I'm going to tape my hands together now; this is ridiculous.
Posted by Jai Narayan on August 27, 2004, at 16:58:46
In reply to Sorry, embarrassed was the wrong word., posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 16:02:56
susan there's never anything wrong with communication.
Scott and B2 have made clear statements that have grave concern for us all.
You were there for both of them. You put your caring right out there. I appreciate that. You are a deeply caring person.I thought you were great. It was a tough situation. What are you going to do?
I think being worried was right.
So one thing is: I hope you don't ever consider suicide...it's way too final and as you can see painful for us all.You did the right thing.
I am there with you.
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 17:12:07
In reply to B2 Scott (sorta from Shadows.....by way of Emmy), posted by tofuemmy on August 27, 2004, at 6:25:03
Posted by tofuemmy on August 27, 2004, at 17:47:58
In reply to Tofuemmy your words on this thread are beautiful. (nm), posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 17:12:07
Those are the words of Shadows...she's the writer here! I just copy/paste very, very, well. :-)
Posted by Angela2 on August 27, 2004, at 18:26:49
In reply to Re: SiV, posted by B2chica on August 26, 2004, at 16:55:32
B2Chica,
You are not a loser! I love you!! The pain you are going through sounds so dark and stomach grinding. I am not a doctor or a psychologist, so I don't know what to say to make you get better but I know that you can get some help from a trained professional. I hope you will be ok soon!!!
Posted by gardenergirl on August 27, 2004, at 18:41:30
In reply to Re: Susan47 please read » zenhussy, posted by Scott in Vermont on August 27, 2004, at 13:50:02
> ZH,
>
> I'm impressed. That was an incredible post. Everyone should read it.Ditto!
gg
Posted by Atticus on August 27, 2004, at 20:44:21
In reply to Re: SiV, posted by B2chica on August 26, 2004, at 16:55:32
B2c,
I'm not going to preach; I know that's the last thing you and Scott want, and it's not really my style anyway. I'd just like you both to know that I'm a survivor of a suicide attempt that I made this past spring. I couldn't think of a single reason, that day, why I should go through the pain of waking up to face another sunrise. So I'll just say this: if either of you is at all interested in communicating, please let me know. I'm not pretending to have any special insights -- just some nasty scars and the desire to talk, about anything, if either of you wants to. I've been in the abyss myself, and you're right, it's a terrible place to find yourself. Give me a try. Atticus
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 21:54:20
In reply to Re: Tofuemmy your words .....nuh uh..not me! » Susan47, posted by tofuemmy on August 27, 2004, at 17:47:58
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 21:55:35
In reply to Re: Susan47 please read, posted by gardenergirl on August 27, 2004, at 18:41:30
I did read it gg. Is there something I missed?
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 28, 2004, at 1:06:41
In reply to B2, posted by Scott in Vermont on August 26, 2004, at 15:42:35
I am coming in on the last part of this thread. Been dealing with major dysfunction lately, so I apoligize for not replying sooner.
What is this about calling the self a looser? Nobody is a loser. They (Shadows) may not do great at certain things, but that doesn't make them a looser. Is a person with MPD or schziophrenia a looser? No. Is a person with diabetes or high blood pressure a loose? No. (Shadows, what the heck is a loose person? Hey, is it Looser or loser? Where is the grammar/speller master? He got ticked with you about awhile back, Shadows. DARN IT!!!)
There are times when we feel like throwing in the towel on something, but that just means we give up. That doesn't mean, "we are loosers". God doesn't make loosers and God didn't make a mistake either. (Personally, I think I made 100's in this post) This life is an adventure and at times it feels like torture. But, if we shut it all down now, what happens tomorrow. When you get to the point of not caring and giving up - that may actually be a surrender to the process of something. When things get to be to much, sometimes we just need to float and stop fighting in the water. Am I making any sense? I hope I don't sound preachy.
"Shadows, you sounded very very preachy to me." Okay, I will shut up and float on some Epsom salts and listen to some Mozart. "Good idea, Shadows. I will make some punch flavored crystal light."..... HEY! WHAT'S IN THIS CRYSTAL LIGHT? "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 28, 2004, at 1:10:13
In reply to Shadows what you said was beautiful. (nm), posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 21:54:20
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