![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 12:11:15
In reply to It was like watching a car wreck..., posted by Ginjoint on February 7, 2003, at 6:24:10
So true about the DSM. One annoyance, on the show BabaWawa told us the father and one brother denied the child abuse, yet she didn't say that LaToya and Jermaine have corroborated it. They were just trying to make him look like a total liar. The obvious lying about the plastic surgery will make folks doubt him about everything else.
Now I'm convinced, he's more than eccectric, he is really delusional. He's just going to get judged for it all, condemned as a liar and a pervert. More ignorance about mental illness. The guy can't help himself. He needs serious professional help. But please keep him away from children while he gets it.
The interviewer said Michael just needs to grow up. Yup, snap out of it, dude. Same old same old attitude.
They had a plastic surgeon analyzing the evidence, a journalist giving his analysis, yet why not one mental health professional giving us ignorant masses a little perspective and information?
Posted by stjames on February 7, 2003, at 12:15:36
In reply to Michael Jackson's diagnosis? Gotta say......, posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 9:31:06
> who cares?
Given that he paid off a boy many millions of $$
because the boy could ID specific birth marks
on MJ's genitals this begs the question as to his fitness to be around kids.
Posted by beardedlady on February 7, 2003, at 12:24:02
In reply to Re: It was like watching a car wreck..., posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 12:11:15
I guess it's because everybody knows he is sick. It doesn't take much analysis to see that this guy, who was a performing star since the age of six, never had a childhood and suffered from his father's verbal abuse and that because of it, he grew up to be a child with terrible self-esteem issues.
I don't know that this is about judging him as much as it is about judging those around him. He is a self-professed Peter Pan, a perpetual boy. Who are the aiders and abettors here who have allowed a boy to raise two children?
As for Tina's "who cares?": I'm inclined to agree, but Ginjoint was sooooo right about the train wreck. And some are more prone to craning for a peek than others. While I don't slow down to eye an accident on the beltway, I had to slow down for this, especially since I was in an ugly sleep clinic awaiting my electrodes.
So it's less about "blaming" and "judging" him than it is about wondering why he is allowed to care for children when it is painfully obvious he can't properly care for himself.
I feel sorry for him too. The real pity is that he doesn't think anything is wrong with him.
beardy
Posted by judy1 on February 7, 2003, at 13:13:29
In reply to Why no MDs? » Tabitha, posted by beardedlady on February 7, 2003, at 12:24:02
Mainly for the children in his care- they have so little chance of growing up normal. And with his *billions*, MJ doesn't have to follow society's rules like the rest of us. What he does to himself is his business, but when it involves children I feel ill- judy
Posted by stjames on February 7, 2003, at 13:39:44
In reply to I just found it so sad, posted by judy1 on February 7, 2003, at 13:13:29
> Mainly for the children in his care- they have so little chance of growing up normal. And with his *billions*, MJ doesn't have to follow society's rules like the rest of us. What he does to himself is his business, but when it involves children I feel ill- judy
It really burns me up when people say "who cares"
when the evidence is clear he is a peodiplile.
I have read several reports from his ex-staff
that he was sleeping with the young children. WHO CARES about his face !!!!!! I care about the children. How could anyone watch that show, miss the clear sickness there, and say "Who cares" !!!!The other consern is his wealth, which allows him to continues having chilren and abusing them.
Posted by Ted on February 7, 2003, at 14:11:47
In reply to Michael Jackson's diagnosis? Gotta say......, posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 9:31:06
Tina,
>What is this fascination with this one strange little man? Slow news day????
Right you are. I cannot understand the great interest everyone has in him. I think I was the only one not to have watched the interview at my work.
Then again, I cannot understand what the big deal is with the World Series, the World Cup, the Super Bowl, etc. I never watched a single one of them. Never.
Maybe it's just me....
Ted
Posted by Ted on February 7, 2003, at 14:17:47
In reply to Re: I just found it so sad, posted by stjames on February 7, 2003, at 13:39:44
> It really burns me up when people say "who cares"
> when the evidence is clear he is a peodiplile.So just treat him like a pedophile: Put him in jail, send him to court, convict him, and put him in prison.
Don't grant him fame and publicity. Don't give him any "special" treatment because he is a "celebrity".
Ted
Posted by jodie on February 7, 2003, at 15:21:17
In reply to Michael Jackson, posted by jodie on February 7, 2003, at 2:57:07
Poor children... The man DOES need help, at least for the childrens sake.
Honestly I do feel sorry for him, but he is not the only one with emotional problems, mental illnesses, and whatever else he may have.
Posted by stjames on February 7, 2003, at 16:23:58
In reply to Michael Jackson's diagnosis? Gotta say......, posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 9:31:06
> who cares?
what he does?It is not clear to me what you are saying here.
By saying "who cares.....what he does" it seems
you don't care what is happening to his kids.
I suspect that is not what you are saying, could you clarify ?I will agree with 100% about the other stuff, but for me that is not why I watched the show. I am conserned only about the kids.
Posted by paxvox on February 7, 2003, at 18:50:20
In reply to What is Michael Jackson's diagnosis?, posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 1:55:22
Well, to be as "civil" as possible,
he's a f*cking freak of nature.PAX
Posted by Rach on February 8, 2003, at 1:15:58
In reply to Re: Michael Jackson » Tabitha, posted by NikkiT2 on February 7, 2003, at 6:55:06
I agree, Nik. I think he is a disturbed person, but not someone who is doing anything disturbing (the tree, the sleeping with children).
However, I do find it disturbing that he covers his children's faces. I think he is harming them by creating in them the belief that they are very different to other people. Perhaps even giving them the sense that they are less than other people, or that they are wrong in some way. I don't think his kids should be taken off him, but I do think that the mother or a mother figure needs to be present in their lives. And some normalcy, like going to the zoo without masks.
Posted by dreamerz on February 8, 2003, at 1:56:07
In reply to Re: Michael Jackson » NikkiT2, posted by Rach on February 8, 2003, at 1:15:58
He wants to do the moonwalk on the moon which would cost billions..get the money by advertising.
The image that comes to mind cracks me up.
He freaky but he can afford it--didn't see program but seems a gentle , kind guy.
Posted by Alara on February 8, 2003, at 2:38:48
In reply to Re: Michael Jackson » NikkiT2, posted by Rach on February 8, 2003, at 1:15:58
OK, here's my theory:
The preoccupation that he has with his face is a manifestation of the deep shame surrounding his childhood abuse, sexual issues etc. To create another layer over that shame, he's projecting his face-hiding complex onto the children... He has a need to protect(`blanket') himself and the children while simultaneously hiding them to cover the shame.
Although Michael didn't specifically say that he was sexually molested as a child, I have a strong suspicion that this was an issue. Victims of childhood sexual abuse are often disturbed (and confused) by the conflicting shame, pain and occasional physical pleasure. If this is what happened to Michael, then he has carried this complex into adulthood and has a disturbing compulsion to repeat the experience in order to conquer it. To lessen the guilt and to maintain denial, he creates a delusional world in which he acquires a `Peter Pan' persona, an identity which is so innocent that it absolves him of any paedophilic tendencies.
I feel very sorry for Michael Jackson. Even if he has sexually interfered with children, he maintains the delusion that he is innocent - just as he maintains the somatic delusion that his face is naturally `changing'. He truly believes that he is innocent.
After all, he was robbed of his childhood.
Posted by noa on February 8, 2003, at 11:38:04
In reply to psychological profile, posted by Alara on February 8, 2003, at 2:38:48
I know it's only one aspect of the facial changes he has gone through, but do you think the skin disorder that makes him lose pigment is real? I think it is probably real and just adds to the psychological issues about his face.
He might have body dismorphic disorder, no? He did talk about how his father ridiculed his "wide" nose.
It also looked to me like at least one of the children had his hair bleached.
Posted by Alara on February 8, 2003, at 22:51:27
In reply to Re: psychological profile, posted by noa on February 8, 2003, at 11:38:04
> I know it's only one aspect of the facial changes he has gone through, but do you think the skin disorder that makes him lose pigment is real? I think it is probably real and just adds to the psychological issues about his face.
>
Could be. We'll never know.> He might have body dismorphic disorder, no? He did talk about how his father ridiculed his "wide" nose.
>
Oh yeah, he definitely has BDD!! It's understandable though.> It also looked to me like at least one of the children had his hair bleached.
Either the child had its hair bleached or the egg was not inseminated with his sperm...I suspect the latter.
Posted by juanantoniod on February 9, 2003, at 3:16:08
In reply to Re: psychological profile » noa, posted by Alara on February 8, 2003, at 22:51:27
I just want to know why he can't have that ugly nose corrected. I know we're all not perfect, but the plastic surgeon did a horrible job on his nose and he has the money to fix it. Or maybe he can't because it's in litigation...Yeah that's it! That's the ticket. He's suing his plastic surgeon for botching his plastic surgery and until the lawsuit is settled, he can't change anything.
Posted by Craig on February 9, 2003, at 3:22:50
In reply to What is Michael Jackson's diagnosis?, posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 1:55:22
Posted by noa on February 9, 2003, at 7:31:23
In reply to Re: What is Michael Jackson's diagnosis?, posted by Craig on February 9, 2003, at 3:22:50
Is he OUR "Elephant Man?"
Posted by bookgurl99 on February 10, 2003, at 0:21:57
In reply to What is Michael Jackson's diagnosis?, posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 1:55:22
"Blind spots" is the right phrase. I'd donate my therapy time for him.
I think that M.J. has the unfortunate habit, as many of us do, of literally not looking at himself. It is not even that he 'masks' himself with masks or face-changing, but that even in his emotional life, he lies to himself about what he is truly feeling/experiencing.
It is a highly disassociative tendency that I could only see as the result of supressing what he needed for himself over and over as a child.
The down side for MJ in this is that this need, unexamined, has caused him to have an unhealthy home life. I imagine that his friends still treat him as a child, and that he views himself as such in relationship to others.
I fear it will be hard for MJ and his children when they reach adolescence, the point that MJ was not able to cross. Perhaps the confrontation will be positive, and watching them grow will help to ferry MJ across the divide to adulthood that he has avoided, fearfully, for so long.
p.s. my partner is convinced that he's castrated, but i believe that he has worked to preserve the unchanged preadolescent voice. He speaks in an even higher pitch than a MTF transsexual.
Posted by bookgurl99 on February 10, 2003, at 0:28:29
In reply to Re: Michael Jackson's diagnosis? Gotta say......, posted by stjames on February 7, 2003, at 12:15:36
I don't know if I key M.J. as a pedophile. Would he be so open in his habits if he were?
I found that the settlement out of court in regards to the accusations against Jackson to be fishy. If my kid were abused, I would _never_ EVER take any amount of money. I don't care about the millions; that is not how I would want it to be earned. I would want the bastard to go to jail and _suffer._
I think most people agree. Do you really think the people who accused him would have taken the money over true justice? I think it was a concocted case to make $ out of him. The kid probably saw Jackson changing (which in itself does constitute a form of child abuse, but I don't see it as the same as physical rape), and then his parents found out and were ecstatic that they had hit the jackpot.
Jackson paid off rather than fight to avoid the negative publicity.
Posted by Alara on February 10, 2003, at 4:39:20
In reply to What is Michael Jackson's diagnosis?, posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 1:55:22
He is mentally ill. Is there nobody on this forum with any empathy towards his plight? Stop trying to find somebody who is lower on the totem pole than you in the mental health stakes and show some compassion - just as you would towards anybody who posts on this board.
It is not our duty to judge.
IMHO
Posted by tina on February 10, 2003, at 9:55:44
In reply to Re: Gotta say...... -- Right you are! -- » tina, posted by Ted on February 7, 2003, at 14:11:47
I watched the World Series ONCE. In 1992 because there was a team from Canada actually in it. But, like you, I don't watch those things either.
Posted by tina on February 10, 2003, at 10:03:28
In reply to Re: Michael Jackson's diagnosis? Gotta say......, posted by stjames on February 7, 2003, at 16:23:58
> > who cares?
> what he does?
>I typed exactly what i meant st james. I don't care. Period.
Posted by gabbix2 on February 10, 2003, at 10:54:57
In reply to Give the man a break., posted by Alara on February 10, 2003, at 4:39:20
I don't think anyone here criticized him because he is somehow worse off than we are.
He's been put in the public eye so It's a natural topic to discuss. I agree though, how would we ever know what he is going through, how could we attempt to know? I know most everyone who decides who i am, or how I am are nowhere close to the truth. Its like the story of the blind men and the elephant
Posted by noa on February 10, 2003, at 17:59:00
In reply to my opinion/??'s about MJ's voice., posted by bookgurl99 on February 10, 2003, at 0:21:57
About the voice--I heard some of his friends on some tv show say that in private he talks in a normal, adult male voice!
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.