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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 120 to 144 of 166. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2003, at 10:39:38
In reply to Changing the meaning, posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 9:55:04
Oddipus Rex,
You wrote,[...defining a whole group of people...]. Thank you for introducing this concept here. If I was to be allowed to make a rule page for these type of posts in question here, I would state that it is not OK to post anything that [...defines a whole group of people...] unless the post meets the following conditions, and then I would list the conditions, if any, that could qualify for an exemption.
Then there is the concept that [...if it is funny, to some,...does that excuse it?...]
Thanks for bringing into focus what I believe is the central issues here, since we are posting on a mental-health board and the potential for some to be dehumanized by these type of posts could be a factor in limiting. or prohibiting, their postings.
Thanks again,
Lou
Posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 10:42:51
In reply to Re: Being sensitive, posted by coral on February 3, 2003, at 10:31:25
Yes it is sad. I was referring my "I feel" statements in this thread to this thread particularly. But I think in general people who would defend ethnic slurs probably don't care much about other people's feelings. So I was thinking it would be better to try to reason with people than ask them to care about my feelings.
And more effective.But it doesn't carry over into ALL my real life so it's not totally sad. I was mostly talking about dealing with the board where I really don't know who's out there. I'm glad you learned to trust. I know it's really hard for some people including me. Thanks for the sympathy.
> You said, "The problem with all those "I feel" statements is that if I say "I feel hurt when you say...." the person who was saying that may just know they've hit the target and come back with more!" What a very sad statement. I have one person in my world who would "come back with more" and I only have contact with this person due to family entanglements. Obviously, I never expose myself or admit feelings of hurt for exactly the reasons you gave. The other people in my world hear my statements and know that it's a sensitive area and proceed with gentle caution if something further needs to be said. (It took a lot of time for me to learn how to express myself so intimately, though... and trust of others.)
>
Posted by Dinah on February 3, 2003, at 10:46:07
In reply to Being sensitive » Dinah, posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 10:23:16
> And my case against ethnic humor isn't based on my personal feelings. It's based on respect for human dignity and the value of the individual.
>
I understood that perfectly. It's how I feel myself. I do think that perfectly nice people have differences of opinions on redneck jokes, because they disagree on intent and definitions.> You said once these things don't bother you as much any more and I think that's encouraging! It doesn't bother me as much as it did that first night either.
>
> Thanks for the support.Apparently I have to retract that. It does bother me some. It reminds me just too much of junior high, where not only did people make fun of you, but then you were disparaged for being too sensitive at not enjoying being made fun of. Injury to injury. I think if one more person says in effect to lighten up and can't you take a joke, without at least a token effort at understanding my position, I'm going to scream loud and long.
And since that may be amusing to watch, perhaps I shouldn't have admitted that.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2003, at 10:55:38
In reply to Re: Being sensitive » OddipusRex, posted by Dinah on February 3, 2003, at 10:46:07
Dinah,
You wrote,[...based on human dignity and the value of the individual...]
Thanks for saying it in those terms what I have been writing about also. You see, I believe that to [overcome] requiers that we be able to see the [value] in our existance and the [dignity] of our selves.
Thanks,
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 3, 2003, at 11:50:25
In reply to Re: Being sensitive » coral, posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 10:42:51
is it just jokes regarding ethnicity that anger you though??
I am just interested in whether you do tell jokes, and whether you realise that, as a rule, a joke is making fun of someone in someway..
Nikki
Posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 12:11:15
In reply to Oddipuss, posted by NikkiT2 on February 3, 2003, at 11:50:25
> is it just jokes regarding ethnicity that anger you though??
No , anything that demeans or stereotypes an entire group of people would be unacceptable. I also wouldn't think jokes about schizophrenics or quadraplegics would be funny. I also think there needs to be sensitivity to the audience. For instance kidding a friend about something would be different from reading ethnic jokes over the intercom at school.
>
> I am just interested in whether you do tell jokes, and whether you realise that, as a rule, a joke is making fun of someone in someway..
>
I occasionally tell jokes. And believe it or not I frequently laugh at other peoples jokes. I of course think the same principles would apply to me as to anyone else. I don't agree that jokes always make fun in the sense of stereotyping or dehumanizing people. I think jokes about individuals are different than jokes about groups. For example I think a joke about Colin Powell would be different than a joke about "African Americans". I think the safest jokes end up being the ones about ourselves.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2003, at 13:24:41
In reply to Re: Oddipus » NikkiT2, posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 12:11:15
OR,
You wrote,[...a joke about Colin powell...].
You have brought up a good concept called the [public figure] concept. In the United states, it has been recognised from the conception of our country that people that are deemed to be a[public figure], are classified differently than those that are not. You will see plenty of parody and jokes about Goerge W. Bush and Tony Blair in the newspapers and they accept it as part of being a public figure.
Thanks,
Lou
Posted by Tabitha on February 3, 2003, at 13:33:15
In reply to Re: Being sensitive » OddipusRex, posted by Dinah on February 3, 2003, at 10:46:07
Dinah, I have to laugh at that, you've captured junior high herd mentality so perfectly. I hope it's not so black and white anymore. Some people will react that way, but some will react like adults. Personally I still don't feel safe admitting hurt feelings where even one person is going to ridicule me for it, because admitting hurt feelings is difficult for me.
I just really wish it was safe here for us all to process our feelings, but I don't think it is.
Posted by Ritch on February 3, 2003, at 13:42:02
In reply to Re: The meaning has changed » Phil, posted by shar on February 2, 2003, at 22:17:30
> > I knew lots of people with cars in their yard, etc. but many were very cool people and good friends. But I also knew business men who were rednecks.
>
> > None of it had to do with poverty especially or many of the other definitions.
> > Jeff Foxworthy started a comedy routine that changed the definition and I honestly think he's a very funny guy.
> > Growing up in Texas, I can promise you, if Jeff Foxworthy walked into a "redneck bar" they would be begging for more jokes and laughing their butts off.
>
> Man, I love that one thing that Foxworthy talks about--watching a working TV that's sitting on a nonworking console TV. hahahahaha. That is so true, and so funny! I grew up with that!
>
> SharLol! My parents had an old console TV/stereo that was all vacuum tubes, and it finally just petered out and it stayed right where it was. They got a "fancy" new 19" Hitachi (back in the mid-70's) and parked it right on top. Hey, you aren't going to throw a perfectly decent tabletop out in the trash now are you? Another thing, another uncle of mine (I had seven), worked for the telephone company and they had all of those wooden cable spools. My parents didn't have one of those, but I have sure seen my share. :-)
I never liked country and western music much. However, my Mom's 78's of Hank Williams Sr, and Cowboy Copas, etc., those were kinda cool to listen to....
Posted by coral on February 3, 2003, at 13:59:04
In reply to Re: Oddipus » OddipusRex, posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2003, at 13:24:41
Dear Lou;
You've brought up an interesting point. Bill Clinton has been the brunt of jokes because of his sexual misconduct and jokes were made about Janet Reno because of her looks. I see those two as very different.
Coral
Posted by IsoM on February 3, 2003, at 13:59:52
In reply to Re: The meaning has changed » shar, posted by Ritch on February 3, 2003, at 13:42:02
Ah, Mitch, I love your view of life. And what's wrong with those huge spools? A little work on them & they make wonderful low coffee tables or sitting-around-eating-sushi type tables. I hate to see all that wood wasted. I'm the stereotypical "don't throw that out - I'll find a use for it" person. If no use of it's made in a year, then I get strict with myself & throw it out or pass it to the next person who'll find a use for it. I like the eclectic look & believe it or not, it's very tasteful when I'm finished with it.
I *LOATHE* country & western music. Maybe that's why I never knew any rednecks. But I love the old Marty Robbins songs like Cool Water & El Paso. I was around 9-11 when they came out & my parents listened to them on their old vacuum tube radio. I'm not what you'd ever classify as a redneck, but I was 12 before we had a flush toilet. It was the old outhouse in the back. I just grew up very, very poor. I couldn't wait to be old/tall enough to haul water out of the well like my older brothers, but my father put a old fashioned pump in the kitchen sink before I got tall enough for that. But I sure did my share of chopping wood for the cook stove. It must've been hell for my Mom back then - canning winter supplies in the heat of summer over a wood cook stove. But I had the happiest childhood memories (minus my very harsh father).
P.S. Ever heard of the Leningrad Cowboys? I saw a documentary/entertainment show on them once. They're Scandinavian guys who spoke no English & played old rock & country songs & polkas. They had the most exaggerated pompadour hairstyles I'd ever seen. They're hilarious. Sort of a mostly unknown cult status in North America. They've gotten a little flashier & added a couple women to the band but they're still very funny & entertaining.
Here's a link to the band members (just in case you're crazy enough to check them out)!
http://www.leningradcowboys.fi/frameset_band.html
Posted by syringachalet on February 3, 2003, at 14:14:53
In reply to Re: Changing the meaning (correction), posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 10:30:41
I think I would like us to talk about something that doesnt continue to irritated so many people.
Anyone got an good ideas?
How about everyone think of ONE legal stress reducer that they use daily that might help someone else here? (and let try to keep it clean here, guys...)
I use bubble baths and one ounce of really good chocolate each week.syringachalet
Posted by Dinah on February 3, 2003, at 15:55:05
In reply to Re: Being sensitive » Dinah, posted by Tabitha on February 3, 2003, at 13:33:15
LOL Tabitha. Wasn't junior high the worst? It seems a lot of people have those memories. You're right, a lot of people have outgrown that. In fact, I went (believe it or not!) to my junior high reunion, and a few of the tormentors were really nice. A few weren't.
I guess that's where I run into problems. I persist in thinking it's safe here. :) Which it generally is.
Posted by noa on February 3, 2003, at 19:28:18
In reply to Re: Changing the topic...sharing stress reducers, posted by syringachalet on February 3, 2003, at 14:14:53
Chocolate has become a staple of my diet recently! Of course, I am not a true chocolate addict, because I prefer milk chocolate to dark (less actual cocoa content). But often, I feel like I need at least some chocolate every evening. Problem is, I've found this amazing brand of milk chocolate and it is hard not to eat the entire bar.
I like baths, too, but it requires cleaning the tub!
I know that exercise helps me de-stress, but I haven't been able to get myself to do any exercise in a couple of months.
Posted by Dinah on February 3, 2003, at 19:37:27
In reply to Re: Changing the topic...sharing stress reducers, posted by noa on February 3, 2003, at 19:28:18
Posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 19:38:16
In reply to Re: Changing the topic...sharing stress reducers, posted by noa on February 3, 2003, at 19:28:18
It seems like it trivializes the concerns of several of us including me. I hope you're not offended, Noa,I feel able to discuss this with you because your posts on admin shaped a lot of my thoughts about ethnic stereotypes. It helped me realize WHY it was important to take a stand on this board. Maybe you could start a new thread about chocolate? Thanks.
> Chocolate has become a staple of my diet recently! Of course, I am not a true chocolate addict, because I prefer milk chocolate to dark (less actual cocoa content). But often, I feel like I need at least some chocolate every evening. Problem is, I've found this amazing brand of milk chocolate and it is hard not to eat the entire bar.
>
> I like baths, too, but it requires cleaning the tub!
>
> I know that exercise helps me de-stress, but I haven't been able to get myself to do any exercise in a couple of months.
Posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 19:40:57
In reply to Re: Changing the topic is causing me stress » noa, posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 19:38:16
Posted by Dinah on February 3, 2003, at 19:43:09
In reply to I guess I'm just too sensitive. I'll shut up now (nm), posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 19:40:57
There is nothing wrong with being sensitive!
((Oddipus Rex))
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2003, at 20:35:30
In reply to Re: Lou, posted by coral on February 3, 2003, at 13:59:04
coral,
you wrote,[...Billl Clinton has been the brunt of jokes because of his sexual misconduct and jokes were made about Janet Reno because of her looks...].
One of the public figures that I have never read anything about in the world of scandle was Rutherford B. Hayes.
Lou
Posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 22:29:42
In reply to I guess I'm just too sensitive. I'll shut up now (nm), posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 19:40:57
http://www.radicalthought.org/
When (people) eat chocolate, they are eating my flesh." Drissa was forced to work as a slave on a cocoa plantation in Cote d'Ivoire
Child Slaves May Be Making Your Chocolate
On a recent trip to Sweden, I saw a report on BBC (made by TrueVision) on cocoa farming - the first step in making chocolate -in the Ivory Coast. According to the BBC, hundreds of thousands of children are being stolen from their parents, shipped to the Ivory Coast and sold as slaves to cocoa farms. These children earn no money for their work, are barely fed, are beaten if they try to escape, and most will never see their families again. Nearly 50% of the world's chocolate production starts in the Ivory Coast.
When I heard this, I was completely appalled. Suddenly I could taste every bit of chocolate I'd ever eaten in my life, a taste so sour at the thought that child slaves had produced it that I thought I would vomit.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2003, at 0:33:17
In reply to Re: Changing the meaning, posted by syringachalet on February 3, 2003, at 10:07:10
> I still think my humour piece was funny
> I'm honestly not the least bit upset by all this... why should I feel guilty when my intentions were innocent?
>
> IsoMSorry, but I don't consider the above to be very supportive, given the feelings that have been hurt. Intentions aren't everything.
> If I complained about this, I would be classed as a racist. Thats what really annoys me.
>
> NikkiI know it's annoying, but please do be careful how you put things...
> If you are that easily offended by someone telling a harmless joke, I am truly sorry for you.
>
> syringachaletAnd please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, thanks.
Bob
Posted by IsoM on February 4, 2003, at 1:25:37
In reply to Re: please be civil » IsoM » NikkiT2 » syringachalet, posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2003, at 0:33:17
Do you want me to feel guilty? How would that be supportive of me after the last two very rough months I've been through. I said nothing unkind or unsupportive in any of my posts. I simply stated the fact that I'm not feeling guilty. I didn't say I didn't give a rat's ass of other's feelings, did I? And I didn't imply it sneakily either. I'm not being unkind to anyone.
AND I've stated over & over, that to me that humour piece was about *ETIQUETTE*, not people. I didn't even know what rednecks were. I had no intentions of hurting any one & still don't. If any one reads it as I meant it to be, as I read it when it was sent to me (silly ideas of what's polite), they'd understand. I still consider my conscious clean. Mind you, I'll be more careful about checking whether something may be real before I post next time, but I'm not going to be feeling guilt over this. No wonder so many people are screwed up & have poor self-esteem. They can be brow-beatened too easily.
Posted by syringachalet on February 4, 2003, at 6:14:02
In reply to Re: please be civil » IsoM » NikkiT2 » syringachalet, posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2003, at 0:33:17
Bob,
I guess we should all 'walk on eggs' so as not to upset anyone.
I will be taking some time to consider this option.
syringachalet
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 4, 2003, at 7:37:33
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by syringachalet on February 4, 2003, at 6:14:02
???? Saying a fact, such as the fact I would be classed a racist in my country if I complained about the treatment I receive... How on earth is that un-civil??
I really am lost over this one!!
Nikki
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2003, at 8:01:13
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by syringachalet on February 4, 2003, at 6:14:02
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