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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JonW on December 21, 2002, at 13:18:19
How does everyone deal with creating a resumé after being on disability? Is it better to leave an unexplain gap or risk explaining yourself?
Any advice?
Jon
Posted by BeardedLady on December 21, 2002, at 14:17:01
In reply to Resumé Advice, posted by JonW on December 21, 2002, at 13:18:19
I have written and designed some resumés for a living (well, for part of my job) and have even done some teaching on it. No one likes a gap in time, and you do wind up having to explain it.
You don't want to say you were on disability. Is there any way you can look that up?
When I was a teen and needed enough experience to get a real job, I lied. I got my mom's company or my dad's company to pretend they hired me for that expanse of time. That way, when a prospective employer called, the owner of the company was in on it.
Here's what to do now that you're a big boy. Call it Jon W.'s consulting firm, and say that you decided to do freelance work while you figured out what you wanted to do, always hoping to go back to your love (whatever this job is) someday. Tailor your duties to fit whatever you are applying to do.
Here's another tip from the wordsmith (who probably has umpteen typos here): start all items in lists with verbs. So put your company name, job title, time employed, then bullet all your duties: wrote blank, produced blank, connected blank, answered blank, raised blank, shot, filmed, recorded, filed, discarded, etc.
Whatever you did, make it a verb. Don't ever start "responsible for," and make sure ALL the items are a different verb and none are a different part of speech.
Well, hope it helps. I'm sorry to suggest lying, but dishonesty is the best policy in this case. Besides, you really did work for yourself--to get yourself better.
beardy
Posted by BekkaH on December 22, 2002, at 1:19:30
In reply to Re: Resumé Advice » JonW, posted by BeardedLady on December 21, 2002, at 14:17:01
Hi Beardy,
What's wrong with "responsible for"? Thanks for the advice.
Bekka
Posted by BeardedLady on December 22, 2002, at 6:59:27
In reply to Re: Resumé Advice - Beardy, posted by BekkaH on December 22, 2002, at 1:19:30
Bekka:
It's better to use active verbs--to say I phoned, I wrote, I produced, I directed, than to say I was responsible for phoning, writing, producing, and directing. It puts the emphasis on the action and says you actually DID these things, rather than that you were simply responsible for them.
Verbs are the best. (Adverbs, on the other hand, are practically unnecessary if you use the right verb, but that's another discussion!)
beardy
Posted by BekkaH on December 22, 2002, at 7:02:55
In reply to Active Verbs » BekkaH, posted by BeardedLady on December 22, 2002, at 6:59:27
I see. Thanks for the clarification.
Posted by JonW on December 22, 2002, at 10:56:47
In reply to Re: Resumé Advice » JonW, posted by BeardedLady on December 21, 2002, at 14:17:01
> Here's what to do now that you're a big boy. Call it Jon W.'s consulting firm, and say that you decided to do freelance work while you figured out what you wanted to do, always hoping to go back to your love (whatever this job is) someday. Tailor your duties to fit whatever you are applying to do.
I was inclined to tell the truth, but my pdoc has given me the same advice as you. I suppose it's best to deal with it in this way, even in this day and age. Thanks for the advice!
Jon
Posted by Dinah on December 22, 2002, at 13:36:35
In reply to Re: Resumé Advice » BeardedLady, posted by JonW on December 22, 2002, at 10:56:47
Posted by BeardedLady on December 22, 2002, at 14:14:31
In reply to Re: Resumé Advice » BeardedLady, posted by JonW on December 22, 2002, at 10:56:47
Jon:
I understand how you feel. I'd be inclined to tell the truth, too, as I am an honest and open person. But there is so much prejudice that there's no point in offering information that will surely not win you points for truthfulness (except maybe in heaven, and then you won't need rent money).
Still, I try to be honest even when I am forced to mislead (in this case, for example). So try to fill your résumé with things you actually did while on break (except for the sleeping, eating, and grooming part). Maybe it will make you feel better for having to fib.
beardy
Posted by BekkaH on December 22, 2002, at 16:17:41
In reply to No wonder I would be doomed in the corporate world (nm), posted by Dinah on December 22, 2002, at 13:36:35
I think those rules of resume-making apply to all types of work and aren't necessarily limited to the corporate world.
Posted by bookgurl99 on December 22, 2002, at 16:39:03
In reply to Re: Resumé Advice » JonW, posted by BeardedLady on December 21, 2002, at 14:17:01
Do you know anything about treatment once you have a job?
One of my friends was hired for a new position at work. It's taken him a long time to learn it, because he has (very mild) cerebral palsy and (very mild, I know it's hard to believe) hydrocephalus. The symptoms have never really affected him before, but he's noticed them in the past 6 weeks.
At work, when his boss criticized him for taken so long to learn the new position (he probably needed 6 weeks instead of a month), he admitted to having a disability. The boss wants to know the exact disability, but of course he's not going to say what it is. He's just going to say how it's impacting him at this time, and that he's visiting a dr. about it. (Which he is.)
He also emailed the HR person about a vicious statement his boss made, and asked to be scheduled for a different time than his boss is in the office.
Is this the right thing to do? He's worried about losing the job.bookie
Posted by bookgurl99 on December 22, 2002, at 16:45:16
In reply to Re: Resumé Advice » JonW, posted by BeardedLady on December 21, 2002, at 14:17:01
What can I do? I started out on the normal college career track -- interned at a publishing house, etc. -- but in the last 4 years have pretty much drifted from one low-responsibility job to another. Now that I'm ready for grown-up land, how do I present myself to get a decent job that uses brains?
I live in a very competitive area (Madison, WI, where one needs a master's to pour coffee). The one responsible position I had was 2 years ago teaching computer skills as an Americorps*Vista. Since then, taken college classes and job-hopped. I'm actually thinking of moving to a less competitive area to help climb up the ladder. Can you think anything I can do to better my current position?
book "child genius" gurl99
Posted by BeardedLady on December 22, 2002, at 18:33:51
In reply to Re: Resumé Advice, posted by bookgurl99 on December 22, 2002, at 16:45:16
bookie:
I can't help with your CP friend; that probably needs a different thread.
As for grown up jobs when your last ones have been menial, a little embellishment and clever verbs will save the day. Of course, you need to be willing to take an entry-level position, and your objective should probably reflect that. (I don't even have an objective on my résumé, as I usually give it to clients, rather than prospective employers, and I state my objective in a good cover letter. I need all the room I can get to keep it one page.)
You should speak to someone who does résumés for a living--or check a web site; I'm sure there's a good one.
I still think verbs are the most important. Even if your jobs aren't impressive, your skills can be. Use the Related Experience heading to show off something you can do that didn't come from a job.
I hope this helps. I can't be more specific unless I know what, exactly, we're talking about.
I got my first job working for a one-man ad agency after being a secretary for years and years while I earned a MA. I got the job because of my cover letter, which began, "Oooh! Oooh! Pick me!"
beardy : )>
Posted by coral on December 23, 2002, at 8:33:38
In reply to Resumé Advice, posted by JonW on December 21, 2002, at 13:18:19
Dear Jon,
Sorry, but I'm going to offer very opposite advice on this one. Do NOT lie. If you're hired and there are problems (of any sort, your responsibility or someone else's) and you've submitted a resume with lies and were probably asked to sign a job application form, that is grounds for immediate dismissal in most states. (In fact, I'm not aware of a state in the US where it's not grounds for immediate dismissal). Instead, if questioned about the "gap", explain there were family issues that needed your attention. There are restrictions about what an interviewer can ask and most of those areas cover "personal" issues. Yes, it is a risk but the greater risk is to lie on a resume. Also, and this is an important judgment call, if your disability impacted your life (obviously, it did), you may have protection from the ADA against "Refusal to hire." While I realize companies can give other reasons (many do) for not hiring, some companies are very progressive.
The question in the employer's mind is whether the problem is going to reoccur.
Since you were on disability, that information would be available to your prospective employer's workers' comp. carrier in most states. Again, there is a prohibition against refusing to hire someone who has a disability claim on their record. (That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, though.)
This next point is a bit of a sticky wicket - your previous employer (if contacted for a reference) may be obligated to report the disability. (One clear example - if an employee was terminated for workplace violence, that employer can be liable if that information is not disclosed during a reference check - in the event of future violent acts.) If your resume says otherwise, your prospective employer will know of your dishonesty.
While I wholeheartedly agree with "active verbs," I would strongly suggest staying away from the use of "I" --- it takes some creative wording to accomplish the same impact without "I". In today's environment, companies are seeking (whether it's lip service or not) team players and excessive "I"'s are contrary to the desired image.
As a management consultant, I work with companies on the "management" side, making these types of evaluations. In spite of much of the bad press companies receive, many companies are very progressive in their approaches to employees. A company that has stone age attitudes isn't going to be a positive work experience.
Posted by coral on December 23, 2002, at 8:54:32
In reply to what about once you've got a job? » BeardedLady, posted by bookgurl99 on December 22, 2002, at 16:39:03
Dear Bookgurl,
It's hard for me to maintain my "professional" composure on this one because my brother had CP. I don't know what kind of a boss your friend has, but talking with HR is the first step. Also, disclosure to his boss and a brief "education" may be in order, unless his boss is an absolute idiot. In my personal and professional experience, once a person is educated, most are compassionate and understanding. However, there are raging idiots (.... ohhh, what I could say about them.....).
Here is a positive example, though. An employee was assigned to a position to make color registrations - charts were provided but the human eye was critically important for quality. The quality in the department plummeted. After an intensive investigation, the employee finally admitted he was color-blind. He was a good employee, and the company felt absolute relief. (They thought their entire color processing system had gone haywire.) He was reassigned to a different area and is doing extremely well.
(My heart went out to him because he felt he'd experience discrimination if he disclosed being color blind.)
Posted by BeardedLady on December 23, 2002, at 9:32:56
In reply to Re: Resumé Advice, posted by coral on December 23, 2002, at 8:33:38
> Sorry, but I'm going to offer very opposite advice on this one. Do NOT lie. If you're hired and there are problems (of any sort, your responsibility or someone else's) and you've submitted a resume with lies and were probably asked to sign a job application form, that is grounds for immediate dismissal in most states.
Yes, it is. But it's unlikely employers will find out that you weren't working for yourself! And I don't mean to be argumentative, but at least you'd have a job from which to be dismissed. It's hard to find those progressive companies willing to hire folks who may need unlimited time off in the future, and it's hard to prove you weren't hired because of it.
I didn't realize that Jon had filed for disability while at his other job (I don't remember it or didn't read closely). That's certainly a factor, as the next employer could easily find out.
> While I wholeheartedly agree with "active verbs," I would strongly suggest staying away from the use of "I" --- it takes some creative wording to accomplish the same impact without "I".Actually, there's no place in a résumé for the word I. The active verbs to which I was referring would come immediately following a bullet. I used "I" only so that I could write a complete sentence in my post!
Cheers!
Beardy : )>
Posted by IsoM on December 23, 2002, at 11:45:54
In reply to No wonder I would be doomed in the corporate world (nm), posted by Dinah on December 22, 2002, at 13:36:35
Just like you, Dinah, I *have* to be totally honest, even if it's to my detriment. I remember going back, after a bad spell of sickness & marraiage break-up, to hone up on my job hunting skills. I was told I was the best that had come through in ages & would have no problem finding a job. BUT I was told that I didn't need to be as brutally honest with my past experiences & skills. Still, I can't live with myself unless I am.
Nonetheless, I was hired at the first place I applied & have even had offers (1. a health food store 2. a computer sales store 3. another store's plant & flower department) while I was simply shopping & answering another customer, wondering aloud about something. After I answered, I got the offers from someone standing behind from the store!
Being totally honest has its benefits too, & I'm willing to take any disadvantages from being honest. In the long run, I've found it the best thing for me. I'm not being arrogant toward any others who many need to dress up their resumés. Each person is different.
Posted by IsoM on December 23, 2002, at 11:51:11
In reply to Re: Resumé Advice » bookgurl99, posted by BeardedLady on December 22, 2002, at 18:33:51
Posted by BeardedLady on December 23, 2002, at 12:35:08
In reply to Re: No wonder I'd be doomed - felt *same* as you! » Dinah, posted by IsoM on December 23, 2002, at 11:45:54
I will always agree that honesty is the best policy, and I am one of those people who say too much, lay it all out on the table.
But if I ever went job hunting, I don't think I'd reveal, during the interview or anywhere else, that I had chronic insomnia--unless it could keep me from doing my job (say, surgery or bus driving!).
I think some people may have gotten the wrong idea from the twists of this thread. I didn't think it was really about revealing disability or being dishonest. I thought it was about what to do with a lull in your résumé. And I don't think it's particularly dishonest to either leave it alone and say you took some time off before you searched for a serious job or that you worked for yourself for a period of time, both of which are true.
The dishonesty comes when you have to describe your duties!
I'm not a particularly good liar, so I don't do it. But you also don't have to reveal everything!
Posted by IsoM on December 23, 2002, at 12:47:05
In reply to honesty--dinah and » IsoM, posted by BeardedLady on December 23, 2002, at 12:35:08
That's what the trainers at that job skills seminar told me too, & I understand. I think strong verb use IS important rather than passive terminology. I did get the guist of your message correctly.
But if job hunters think they're not always being honest, how about the companies they apply to? Talk about overblown, exaggerated claims! Some of these companies come off sounding like they could solve all of the world's problems but try working for them for a while. It goes both ways, doesn't it?
Posted by BeardedLady on December 23, 2002, at 14:50:22
In reply to Re: about revealing all... » BeardedLady, posted by IsoM on December 23, 2002, at 12:47:05
I have two words for you: En Ron.
beardy : )>
Posted by Dinah on December 23, 2002, at 20:01:38
In reply to honesty--dinah and » IsoM, posted by BeardedLady on December 23, 2002, at 12:35:08
I was really lucky I think. (Well, in a way.) I started working as an intern while in college for the same company I work for now. I knew someone in the company so I didn't have to send a resume or formally interview. My qualifications were my grades. Over twenty years later I'm still here.
But from what I hear of interview games and the like, I suspect I wouldn't do very well. I'm way too diffident and do not project energy. But that would be their loss. Especially in a small company like mine. People like me are good at their jobs and aren't trying to move up the corporate ladder. If we're reasonably well treated we'll stay forever and save all those training costs. Employers (especially small employers) need to recognize the huge potential of the boring, direct, low key but quietly productive employee. :)
(And if I were to try to appear high energy and ambitious I would be lying in a far more fundamental way than leaving something out of my resume. My employer and I would both end up unhappy.)
Posted by bookgurl99 on December 24, 2002, at 12:23:57
In reply to Re: Resumé Advice » bookgurl99, posted by BeardedLady on December 22, 2002, at 18:33:51
How about my job as a relay operator? (I work for www.ip-relay.com, if you wanna check it out and see what kind of thing I do.)
Should I say "facilitated communication between the hearing community and those who are deaf, hard-of-hearing, or speech disabled"?
or should I just say "used computer technology to facilitate . . " or should I say "typed conversations" ????Merry merry merry santa vist, btw. Those plaid pants sound hot.
Posted by BeardedLady on December 24, 2002, at 16:20:26
In reply to Re: Resumé Advice -- beardy? » BeardedLady, posted by bookgurl99 on December 24, 2002, at 12:23:57
> How about my job as a relay operator? (I work for www.ip-relay.com, if you wanna check it out and see what kind of thing I do.)
> Should I say "facilitated communication between the hearing community and those who are deaf, hard-of-hearing, or speech disabled"?Well, I'm sure I'll get a lot of flack from the business bobs out there, but you should never say FACILITATED or IMPLEMENTED or UTILIZED anything. I used to teach business writing, and it's absolutely common to do these things in the business world, but it's not respected! (Imagine that!)
I would say assisted with or aided in. Hearing disabled covers deaf, so I'd use that and speech disabled.
Maybe: "Eased communication between the hearing and speech disabled and the unimpaired? Helped the hearing and speech disabled communicate with the hearing community? It's a toughie.
> or should I just say "used computer technology to facilitate . . " or should I say "typed conversations" ????
Make this a separate bullet. Say you typed on the whatever it's called, the latest in TTY technology.
> Merry merry merry santa vist, btw. Those plaid pants sound hot.I might have more time when the Merries are over. If you send me your e-mail address, I will be glad to write to you about it. (I have cancelled my old address and want to remain addressless here.)
They were hot. Now they're hotpants. I'm too old for their length.
I hope Santa brings you everything you want. Hey, how's your sex life? Is your sweety's therapy going okay?
beardy : )>
Posted by noa on December 24, 2002, at 21:23:34
In reply to Re: Resumé Advice » JonW, posted by BeardedLady on December 21, 2002, at 14:17:01
I don't have advice in this realm--this is a tough question, but as I was reading this, I couldn't help but giggle, because it immediately brought to mind George Castanza and Vandalay Industries.
Posted by noa on December 24, 2002, at 21:27:14
In reply to Resumé Advice, posted by JonW on December 21, 2002, at 13:18:19
Actually, an idea of advice did pop in my head (haven't read the entire thread, so apologies to anyone who might have said this already): Structure your resume in a non-chronological format--use a functional format. I don't know exactly how to do this, but I've seen resumes that group experiences by categories, functions, roles, etc., not following the straight chronological format. You still put the dates in, but it isn't so obvious that there is a gap because it doesn't read in a linear, chronological way. Consult a resume book, or expert for more info.
Good luck.
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