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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 29. Go back in thread:
Posted by kid a on October 12, 2002, at 0:59:45
In reply to Plath: Insomniac, posted by ayrity on October 12, 2002, at 0:19:32
> You know her poem "Insomniac?" Absolute best description of insomnia I've ever read:
it's a 1961 poem, I haven't read it yet, I suppose it was probably included in Crossing the Water, but I'm not sure since I don't own that volume...
One I liked was "Amnesiac", which was included by Plath in her Ariel manuscript, but discluded by Hughes... it's last lines are
O sister, mother, wife,
Sweet Lethe is my life.
I am never, never, never coming home!...exactly how i feel.
Theodore Roethke? haven't read much of him either, will have to look into it...
Posted by kid a on October 12, 2002, at 1:02:24
In reply to Re: Plath: Insomniac, posted by kid a on October 12, 2002, at 0:59:45
The Dead
Their reward is
they become innocent again,and when they reappear in memory
death has completely erased
the blurs, given them boundaries. They riseand move through their new world with clean,
clear edges. My grandmother, in particular
has become buoyant, unattached finallyfrom her histories, from the trappings
of family. By no means was shea good woman. But the dead don't care anymore for that.
Weightless, they no longer assume
responsibility, they no longerhave bodies. Once,
at the end of August, after swimming
in the muddy pondI'd gone into the living room, cool
as vodka, where my grandmother
sat. Greed thins a woman,I remember her rings, bigger
than her fingers.
Water ran down my legsonto the floor becoming slippery
and my grandmother, her breath
scratchy from cigarettes and blended whiskey,leaned into my ear and whispered
you're an ugly girl. Do I haveto forgive her? My mother tells me
no one ever loved her,
so when I see her, I see her again in the park
in her pink tailored suit, suede pumps,I see her moving among the strange
gentlemen that have gathered, the dark
powerful men. She is still young, blondeand most of all, she is beyond reach, beautiful.
-Kate Northrop
Posted by IsoM on October 12, 2002, at 2:54:30
In reply to The Dead, posted by kid a on October 12, 2002, at 1:02:24
This one really connected for me - very much so.
Posted by Mr Beev on October 12, 2002, at 9:15:59
In reply to Suicide Off Egg Rock, posted by kid a on October 11, 2002, at 19:33:23
This reminds me of an interesting non-fiction book I once read, 'The Myth of Sisyphus' by Albert Camus. Rarely am I drawn into a work by the very first line, but in this case:
"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy."
As my younger chums would say, Boy can I relate!
Mr Beev
Posted by BeardedLady on October 12, 2002, at 10:00:42
In reply to Re: Suicide - from line 1, posted by Mr Beev on October 12, 2002, at 9:15:59
> This reminds me of an interesting non-fiction book I once read, 'The Myth of Sisyphus' by Albert Camus. Rarely am I drawn into a work by the very first line, but in this case:
After I read _The Stranger_, I read everything by Camus. I love existentialist fiction. Try Paul Auster, or see the movie made from his book, _The Music of Chance_, with Mandy Patinkin (!) and James Spader. It's brilliant, if a little slow.
beardy
Posted by kid a on October 12, 2002, at 11:51:52
In reply to Excellent book. » Mr Beev, posted by BeardedLady on October 12, 2002, at 10:00:42
I've only read an essay by Camus entitled this... maybe I'm missing out, I couldn't make it through "The Plauge"..."Nothing happened today, and then for a long time, nothing happened".
thats my synopsis...
Posted by Mr Beev on October 12, 2002, at 16:43:16
In reply to Excellent book. » Mr Beev, posted by BeardedLady on October 12, 2002, at 10:00:42
> After I read _The Stranger_, I read everything by Camus. I love existentialist fiction. Try Paul Auster, or see the movie made from his book, _The Music of Chance_, with Mandy Patinkin (!) and James Spader. It's brilliant, if a little slow.
Thank you for the recommendations; I shall look them up. Perhaps Mandy yodels out some classic broadway tunes in the film? I am not familiar with Mr Auster though I have heard the name - I fear my acquaintance with belles lettres is but a patchwork.
As I deliquesce into my dotage, I find I prefer the non-fiction of Camus to his fiction. In addition to 'Myth', 'The Rebel' is also quite stimulating, though by no means a light read.
For existential fiction, I do enjoy Dostoyevsky, who is sometimes accounted the 'first existentialist'. His late novels teem with characters, virtually all of whom possess a myriad of mental disorders - or so it appears to me. Furthermore, as the novels progress, most of the characters seem to achieve a feverish collective insanity. Whilst musing in a state of supine indolence one eve, I had the amusing notion of having open before me a novel of D. on the one hand, and the DSM-IV on the other, and I would then attempt to diagnose each of the characters!
Mr Beev
Posted by ayrity on October 16, 2002, at 22:54:58
In reply to Suicide Off Egg Rock, posted by kid a on October 11, 2002, at 19:33:23
From "The Far Field:"
The lost self changes,
Turning toward the sea,
A sea-shape turning around, --
An old man with his feet before the fire,
In robes of green, in garments of adieu.
A man faced with his own immensity
Wakes all the waves, all their loose wandering fire.
The murmur of the absolute, the why
Of being born falls on his naked ears.
His spirit moves like monumental wind
That gentles on a sunny blue plateau.
He is the end of things, the final man.All finite things reveal infinitude:
The mountain with its singular bright shade
Like the blue shine on freshly frozen snow,
The after-light upon ice-burdened pines;
Odor of basswood on a mountain-slope,
A scent beloved of bees;
Silence of water above a sunken tree :
The pure serene of memory in one man, --
A ripple widening from a single stone
Winding around the waters of the world.
Posted by ayrity on October 16, 2002, at 22:58:40
In reply to Suicide Off Egg Rock, posted by kid a on October 11, 2002, at 19:33:23
In a Dark Time
In a dark time, the eye begins to see,
I meet my shadow in the deepening shade;
I hear my echo in the echoing wood--
A lord of nature weeping to a tree,
I live between the heron and the wren,
Beasts of the hill and serpents of the den.What's madness but nobility of soul
At odds with circumstance? The day's on fire!
I know the purity of pure despair,
My shadow pinned against a sweating wall,
That place among the rocks--is it a cave,
Or winding path? The edge is what I have.A steady storm of correspondences!
A night flowing with birds, a ragged moon,
And in broad day the midnight come again!
A man goes far to find out what he is--
Death of the self in a long, tearless night,
All natural shapes blazing unnatural light.Dark, dark my light, and darker my desire.
My soul, like some heat-maddened summer fly,
Keeps buzzing at the sill. Which I is I?
A fallen man, I climb out of my fear.
The mind enters itself, and God the mind,
And one is One, free in the tearing wind.
Posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 1:26:09
In reply to Excellent book. » Mr Beev, posted by BeardedLady on October 12, 2002, at 10:00:42
What did I miss?
My dog I named Camus but only because he had a doggie fetish for soccer balls and Camus played soccer. (I was 17, it made sense at the time)
I re-read both the Rebel and The Stranger fairly recently and thought "Oh well, I must have read them too quickly."
I read them again. My only recollection being that the the 4 shots fired by (Mersault?) in 'the rebel' would have signified something to my high school english teacher, as well as destruction by analysis students who made the most unwieldy symbolism analogies and were so damn passionate about them..oh but I digress.
It inspired no feeling in me though, nothing. Nor did did 'the Stranger"..
blah blah Mother died... gave me white coffee while I waited...never noticed what huge paunches old ladies get.. went home... the end.
That was a it, I just didn't get anything from either of them.
Or was that the point? In which case it wasn't nothing enough for me..
I'm NOT trying to say "I'm the only one who will dare admit its all pretentious shite!"Another viewpoint has often changed my perception (and of course frequently it hasn't) Did I miss something huge that can be defined, or is it taste?
Or can that even be answered?
Anyone?
Posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 7:06:28
In reply to Re: Excellent book. » BeardedLady, posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 1:26:09
You missed only what you'd have missed if you'd had a vanilla cone instead of a chocolate chip mint one, when you really would've rather have had the mint.
Different things speak to different people. Some folks find opera distasteful; others loathe country music. (I happen to dislike both, but I certainly can see what might appeal to others about them.)
As for whether it's pretentious (which you said you did "NOT" say), I can only say that a bunch of pretentous books by the same pretentious author--in fact a whole bunch of authors with bunches of books--from a particular era have been translated into every language and had enough impact on civilization to be called an important movement.
So I guess somebody must have understood something these books tried to impart.
Or are they all pretending?
beardy
Posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 7:29:49
In reply to Re: Excellent book. » BeardedLady, posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 1:26:09
I read all these books when I was in my late teens and early twenties. I was a dark kind of person, too, and wrote a lot of dark poetry (ala Patti Smith).
I doubt that if I had read these books at this point in my life they would mean nearly what they meant to me then. They might even mean nothing!
beardy : )>
Posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 7:47:45
In reply to To each his own. » gabbix2, posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 7:06:28
> You missed only what you'd have missed if you'd had a vanilla cone instead of a chocolate chip mint one, when you really would've rather have had the mint.
That's would rather have had or would've rather had. And I didn't mean to imply that your tastes were vanilla. Actually, I was speaking of me because I rarely stray from my favorite flavor, mint chocolate chip.
> Some folks find opera distasteful; others loathe country music. (I happen to dislike both, but I certainly can see what might appeal to others about them.)I sort of lied there. Some people read Sidney Sheldon, Judith Krantz (?), and Harold Robbins. I don't see how anyone could read that stuff!
I do get your point, Gabbi. I just think that we have to chalk it up to taste, more than anything else. We're just different.
I bought this gorgeous jacket on ebay and told my sister I can't believe anyone would sell this! I actually wrote to the seller to ask her why, because it was so beautiful, she gave it up. She told me she's a professional shopper for ebay, and she only bought it to sell. She might have kept it, but it was too small. Did it make me feel better to have my good taste confirmed? Maybe. I think we flock to those with similar tastes because we feel like we know something the rest of the world doesn't!
Really, we should hang out with people who don't have the same tastes so that we can make sure we get the clothing we want! (Okay, that's shallow. )
beardy : )>
Posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 7:49:05
In reply to P.S. » gabbix2, posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 7:29:49
Posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 7:49:51
In reply to You are long winded today! (nm) » BeardedLady, posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 7:49:05
Posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 12:51:28
In reply to Please be Sybill. (nm) » BeardedLady, posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 7:49:51
Bearded lady,
I wanted to thank-you because I was wondering if it was a matter of taste, or if it could possibly be defined. I was absolutely sincere when I said I wasn't trying to play the 'refreshing working class hero, its all shite'" role.
I find that as obnoxious as elitism. When I ask a question its never confrontational-ever- its because I'm interested, and want to hear.I've often genuinely preferred things and been accused of being elitist to my amazement.
Sometimes the appeal is still lost on me, though I can often appreciate the talent, it just doesn't call to me.
When I saw Michaelangelo's Mary closely it made me tremble though when learning about it it never had. I didn't think it was phony because of that not at all,It was too cerebral I guess, out of context.
It was the sheen on the tip of her nose, not visible in a reproduction, something about that, it looked as if she'd been crying but had wiped her tears, I can't put it any better I think if it could be put into words, it would have been,
At that moment I understood..No worries, I know my taste is not Vanilla I didn't think twice about that.
I wanted to clarify though, that I was ASKING question, not trying disguise a pointless criticism. Its an integral part of my personality, wanting to hear other peoples viewpoints.
Posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 13:01:49
In reply to HEYY!!!, posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 12:51:28
EWWW
Chocolate and Toothpaste, there is something wrong with your taste...
(do I need to say I'm kidding?)
Okay, I'm going to be wordy again.
I'm a vegetarian, and quite quiet about it,
sometimes though, I have to say it, when someone asks why I'm not eating something for instance.
I don't have a chip on my shoulder at all, but its often been assumed that I feel somehow instantly superior or that I'm a fad jumper.
Its frustrating, my reasons are well thought out,
its not because I think its okay to eat the mean ugly animals, but not the cute ones, but I have seen activists to whom it really goes no further than that..
My point, I think I lost it...
Oh, being redundant trying to make sure you knew, that prejudice judgement is no more appealing because it comes from a different direction..
Posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 13:03:55
In reply to HEYY!!!, posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 12:51:28
That's why I wrote again and again. I knew you weren't criticizing. And I wanted to make sure you knew I knew.
Know?
beardy
Posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 13:13:21
In reply to Re: HEY back atcha » gabbix2, posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 13:03:55
whew!I think we can safely stop now,
Had I read your second post before deciding I needed you to know that I knew that you sincerely appreciated Camus
Then I would have known that you knew how important it was to me that you know...But of course I didn't...
Thank-you
Posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 16:19:04
In reply to Mint Chocolate chip???, posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 13:01:49
> prejudice judgement is no more appealing because it comes from a different direction.
Posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 17:25:56
In reply to Mint Chocolate chip???, posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 13:01:49
I can't read it either..
I meant that refusing to acknowledge that something has merit because it has a "snob factor' attached, is no different than disliking something because its got no snob factor attached.When I was in Ireland, I loved it, because of the reality check it gave me. When I was preoccupied with being a born again - druid, Some Irish guy would no doubt say,
"Ah okay yu jes sit on yer rock in the rain then and I'll go have me a guiness."
It made me laugh, it wasn't critical it was just the way it was.
He wasn't accusing me of being flaky, he just wasn't into it.And I like both.
Somehow though in my experience it seems more acceptable somehow to disparage something for no reason than because it , that's all.
Its assumed you're the one who dares to say "The emporer has no clothes" when in fact you could be being just as phony. (Emphasis on could)
I'm not going to pretend I dislike a fine wine just becaue it may seem pretentious.
However I'm not going to claim to be able to enjoy 99 percent of top 10 movies either..Oh I'm so needlessly wordy today, i hope my point was in there somewhere.
I'm just not able to think.
And as i said if i'd actually read your second post I wouldn't have needed to say anything at all.My apologies for the length.
I'm blaming my medication..
Posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 17:37:29
In reply to You mean you can't read my mind?, posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 17:25:56
Fine wine? What's that? I drink a Jewish wine (Mane-something; I can't spell it) and cheap Taylor port. I love beer, and I'm not a snob about it, although I Budweiser and Coors will not touch these lips. (I'm a Bass and Sam fan.)
I don't like most movies, either, and you don't want my opinion on the popular "Ya Ya Sisterhood" series of books, either. (Let's just say it made me puke. The glorification of alchoholism and the cutification of child abuse doesn't make a good read, in my opinion.)
So we like what we like. And I'm guilty of being prejudiced against something because of the people who are into it, but who isn't? If you're a democrat, the idea of a republican senator, governor, president, etc. is an automatic gag. Sometimes you can get beyond it to hear the message, but the prejudice is already there.
Oh, well. The wind is betwixt us both, dear Gabby Gabbi. I hope you are feeling better. You sound better.
beardy : )>
Posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 19:13:45
In reply to I have nothing to blame but myself! » gabbix2, posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 17:37:29
What do you mean, better looking?
(that would be me poking fun at myself!!!
I am a little better thank-you.Oh dear, from Camus to Gabbix2 on new medication
that would be quite a fall this poor thread has takenThanks Bearded Lady
for playing- connect the -thoughts on Gabbi's posts an unfun game I have inadvertently created
and for the input.I'm with you on the Bud! and the Coors!
and Coors light...blasphemyDid I tell you I didn't get Fargo either.. I watched it four bloody times.... I'm kidding well I didn't get it but..bye
Posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 19:36:38
In reply to Better? Better as opposed to what?, posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 19:13:45
I thought it was funny. The wood chipper was a riot.
I also loved American Beauty.
Sorry!
beardy
Posted by gabbix2 on October 17, 2002, at 20:02:53
In reply to Sorry, but I loved Fargo. » gabbix2, posted by BeardedLady on October 17, 2002, at 19:36:38
Its why I watched it four times. I considered it a personal shortcoming (sigh)
This is the end of the thread.
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