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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah1 on May 18, 2002, at 9:00:50
Adjusted appropriately at the end of daylight savings time.
All the OCD thoughts come out, anxiety skyrockets, and the urges come so intensely.
I should be glad they occur at a time when it is really inconvenient to act on them and so they are relatively safe.
But I'm not glad! I want to sleep from 3am to 6am! I want to sleep without waking up over and over, drenched with sweat from some imagined error that will bring on disaster, or muscles tensed to act on some impossible impulse.
And if I take extra Klonopin when I wake up, I'm not at my best the next morning. So I just try relaxation techniques, which work well enough - until I fall back asleep. Then it starts all over. I just can't control my mind when I sleep.
Sorry to vent all over the place.
Posted by Phil on May 18, 2002, at 13:23:51
In reply to I HATE 3 am to 6 am!!!, posted by Dinah1 on May 18, 2002, at 9:00:50
Maybe an hour before bedtime you could burn a few candles, listen to 'massage music', sit on your bed in a yoga like position(you don't have to make your legs tie in a knot, though. I sat that way once for a few minutes; I had never even heard of dislocating both ankles.
Anyway, sit up straight, keep your eyes slightly open but out of focus and do the full breathing thing. You're probably already doing this.
You'll want to commit about 20 minutes a night to this so keep your beer and cigarettes close by on a bedside table. You can't just get up go get them!Namaste,
Phil sponsered today by NORML(with a hard hitting new message to Washington)uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Posted by mair on May 18, 2002, at 13:52:41
In reply to Re: I HATE the other 21 hours., posted by Phil on May 18, 2002, at 13:23:51
Dinah - did you ever check out any Lorena McKennitt cds as was recommended some time ago? They're great cds to listen too before trying to sleep. I find that if I'm fairly calm about things before I go to sleep I'm less likely to wake up so Phil's suggestions sound great.
Were you up on the computer between 3 and 6? My pdoc used to tell me that you were supposed to do this - get out of bed, engage in some restful activity and then go back to bed. My husband does this but it's NOT for me. I prefer to lie in bed and stare at my digital clock. I thrash around, stare at my clock some more, obsess about how tired I'm going to be the next day, calculate how many hours of sleep I might end up getting, wonder if it's too late in the night to take more klonopin or maybe a xanax, make mental lists of all the things I have to do and haven't done, worry about being behind at work - ponder my own gloomy prognosis for ever getting depression under control and generally do EVERYTHING I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO.
If you're not doing those things, you may be way ahead of the game. If you are, maybe you might want to develop some new rituals for what to do when you wake up prematurely. (:
Mair
Posted by BeARdEdLaDY on May 18, 2002, at 15:45:03
In reply to Re: Bedtime rituals., posted by mair on May 18, 2002, at 13:52:41
Mair:
General accepted thinking says you're NOT supposed to get up and use the computer when you can't sleep. And there's still debate about whether what you're doing (which is what I do, though after about two hours I eventually pass out from utter boredom) is right or wrong. The docs usually say to get out of bed and do something NON STIMULATING (the computer definitely does not fall in this category--especially PSB!), like read a boring book or do some needlepoint--in a chair in a dimly lit room.
My doc says new thinking is to lie in bed and try to hold perfectly still, which is what I do, and it works for me often, but sometimes it works faster than others.
I do what you do--fret, wonder why I'm up, toss and turn, change bedrooms, worry that it'll soon be too late to take a sleeping pill, etc.
Here's what works for me. I have a plan that I alter when I need to. But if I wake up at 1:00 and have trouble falling back to sleep, I give myself an hour before a sleeping pill (I like to limit it to when I have something important to do the next day, but sometimes it's just 'cause I wanna sleep!). When I wake up at 3:00, I know it's too late to take a pill, and that's often fine; I can fall asleep on my own again within two hours. I give myself 30 minutes of repetitive thoughts if I need it, and I shake and vibrate and move around, but when that 30 minutes is over, I have to hold still. I can usually fall back to sleep quickly.
On the nights that I say, "Oh, well, so what, I've slept five hours," I fall back to sleep instantly. But I can't do that with only four hours of sleep; there's a weird difference.
My pdoc says the day I stop placing so much importance on sleep is the day I'll be cured. He says my body will not fail me. I will sleep, and I will not go crazy. And as soon as I trust my body again, as soon as I say it doesn't matter anymore, I will have won.
I believe him. On the nights that I can say that, I win.
And I win a lot on my meds and with my bedtime rituals and exercise and diet--general good health.
Here is another thing to maybe help you and Dinah--middle off the night, can't get back to sleep, know you're only going to lie there for hours and not sleep? Take a hot bath. Twenty minutes. And read a book in the tub, unless you want to close your eyes.
I have found the few times that I have had the courage to do this (sometimes I'm afraid I'll miss sleep when it comes to get me if I get out of bed!), I have been able to go right to sleep afterward.
It is a sad place to be. Two nights ago (it was on the news yesterday), a woman forty years old and seven months pregnant was beaten and raped. That's what I was thinking about at 2:00, when I awoke from a hard sleep. Fifteen minutes later, I was in the guest bed with a sleeping pill in me. And five minutes after that, it was six a.m.
Take care—all of you.
beardy : )>
Posted by Phil on May 18, 2002, at 16:37:12
In reply to Re: Bedtime rituals., posted by mair on May 18, 2002, at 13:52:41
mair, Lorena McKinnett is too good.
The first time I heard her voice was the song Bonne Portmore from The Visit. Chills..here's a link.
Posted by Dinah1 on May 18, 2002, at 17:38:48
In reply to Re: Bedtime rituals., posted by mair on May 18, 2002, at 13:52:41
Last night was just a bad night. Lots of OCD thoughts and self injury urges.
I do know the relaxation techniques and I do use them. I usually don't find myself staying up for long stretches of time, although when I wake up in a panic I do get up and do something to dissipate the energy. But then I go back to bed and consciously relax and let the thoughts go. The problem is that once I am asleep again, I lose control of my thoughts and wake up again. It's not easy to practice CBT in your sleep! :)
I actually think the problem might possibly be that I blank things out too much during the day and my subconscious forces them back on me when I'm in a light state of sleep. Hence the 3-6 am. I must sleep more lightly then. But that's just a theory. Who knows.
But thanks for letting me vent.
Posted by paxvox on May 18, 2002, at 20:54:08
In reply to Re: Bedtime rituals. (nm), posted by paxvox on May 18, 2002, at 20:49:56
Well, I MEANT to post.
What I said was, are you sure you are not me? What you described is my own hell for the last 15 years.
PAX
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 20, 2002, at 18:24:25
In reply to I HATE 3 am to 6 am!!!, posted by Dinah1 on May 18, 2002, at 9:00:50
Do you have to awake at 6:00? Could you take a teeny amount of sleeping aid at 3:00? (Or did you already address this?)
Boy, do I know this feeling. It was always as I fell asleep for me.
- kk
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