![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 33. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 11, 2002, at 15:02:55
I thumbed through the book:
"The Highly Sensitive Person : How to Thrive When the World Overwhelms You"
by Elaine N. Aron
yesterday in the book store. It's from 1996, so perhaps outdated, but I liked some of the paragraphs I perused.
This is by no means a recommendation - I haven't read it - but I was happy to see something useful about this subject. Being a HSP at times, phrases such as:
"HSP's need solitude after such a day [a day walking through museums or such]. They feel jangled, overaroused"
really hit home. Or:
"Our trait of sensitivity means we will also be cautious, inward, needing extra time alone. Because people without the trait (the majority) do not understand that, they see us as timid, shy, weak, or that greatest sin of all, unsociable".
:), :), :) - boy is that me to a tee.
I'll probably get it and let you all know how it is.
- kk
Posted by Zo on May 11, 2002, at 17:34:59
In reply to Highly Sensitive People, posted by Krazy Kat on May 11, 2002, at 15:02:55
It's not outdated. Someone did loan it to me. I qualify--except I don't want to qualify on her terms, in the end it is just too precious. The author wimps out. You can be a HSP (as is probably everybody with migraine) and still not get into that awful "delicate flower" thing. Plus it is mandatory that you wear Birkenstocks and no lipstick--and need I add, no nail polish.And *every* Meyers-Briggs INFP qualifies. . except INFPs have this wicked, truly evil deadpan wit. God love 'em.
Zo
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 11, 2002, at 18:37:21
In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » Krazy Kat, posted by Zo on May 11, 2002, at 17:34:59
Boy, that's a good one for this group. I'm trying to recall what I came up as...
certainly Introverted..
I'll look for the link...
And, yes, I agree - one can be a HSP (how absurd are acronyms? :)) in various ways. As a manic depressive, I am very much an HSP when depressed, and not at all when manic. Being "somewhat" stabilized right now, I'm not sure where I fall into the def.
- kk
Posted by IsoM on May 11, 2002, at 19:43:03
In reply to Highly Sensitive People, posted by Krazy Kat on May 11, 2002, at 15:02:55
What's weird is that I'm not introverted at all - I can strike up a conversation with strangers & have them spill their life history within the first half hour (with no prompting at all!). I'm anything but shy but I am a HSP. I really need to be alone a lot of the time. Being too much around people or too much sensory stimulation & I feel very frazzled & cranky. I'm very socable but not overly social.
Posted by Ritch on May 11, 2002, at 22:51:40
In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » Krazy Kat, posted by IsoM on May 11, 2002, at 19:43:03
> What's weird is that I'm not introverted at all - I can strike up a conversation with strangers & have them spill their life history within the first half hour (with no prompting at all!). I'm anything but shy but I am a HSP. I really need to be alone a lot of the time. Being too much around people or too much sensory stimulation & I feel very frazzled & cranky. I'm very socable but not overly social.
Hi Iso,My pdoc recommended that book for me to read a long time ago (I never did). I have been told by many people over a long time that I "could talk to dead people" if I had to. I get social anxiety and panic when I am in a large group of strangers and have to *sit still* and *listen*. However, when I am one-on-one with people I feel stimulated and have little anxiety at all.
Mitch
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 12, 2002, at 11:21:46
In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » IsoM, posted by Ritch on May 11, 2002, at 22:51:40
I don't know that being an introvert is a necessary criteria according to this author.
She does mention that HSP's tend to enjoy talking one-on-one more than within (among, to - what's the correct word?) a large group.
Anyway, it's nice to find something to relate to, even in bits and pieces.
- kk
Posted by IsoM on May 12, 2002, at 11:58:17
In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » IsoM, posted by Ritch on May 11, 2002, at 22:51:40
Again, Mitch, I don't fit the criteria. I can get up & talk in front of a large crowd or just a couple of people. When I've talked in front of groups of people, I've always had some in the audience (whether for university course work or anything else) come up to me asking if I was professional. I could meet celebrities & talk as easily with them as my neighbour.
For me, it's strictly too much sensory stimulation. But it's always man-made. Being in nature (outdoors) calms me & reinvigorates me. One of my sons loves the video & computer games of "Sonic the Hedgehog". It moves so blindly fast, I can't follow for more than a few seconds. And there's so many other things flashing & moving, I have no idea how he can do it.
I believe that if a person doesn't get used to fast movements & loads of sensory stim when young, they have a great deal of trouble ever adjusting to it. I was raised on a small farm till 6, then lived besides the ocean for 2 more years, after that 5 acres in the country - poor as dogs the whole time, so my play consisted of the outdoors. I still find it difficult to read long pieces on a monitor & print them out to read on paper.
The generation of people nowadays are raised on fast, shifting sights & colours, noises, smells. I really think it's doing something adverse to their minds/emotions/perceptions. I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the line, scientific studies are showing this to be true.
Posted by Willow on May 12, 2002, at 15:40:00
In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People and large groups » Ritch, posted by IsoM on May 12, 2002, at 11:58:17
Again, I must turn to my dictionary.
INTROVERT: a person characterized by concern primarily with his own thoughts and feelings AND/OR to direct (the mind, one's inerests, etc.) inward or to things within the self
EXTROVERT: a person who is primarily interested in things outside the self, as one who is gregarious
(Gregarious - fond of the company of others; socialble)I'm sure most of us apply these meanings to the words, and "professionals" do too, but I presume their concept of the ideas goes a bit more indepth. [I'm not aware of who sponsored the speaker, but we had a psychiatrist come up north here from the Clarke Institute (a psychiatric & addictions hospital in Toronto) to speak on teenage suicide.] His theory was that at the far extreme of the intorversion scale you would have someone with schizophrenia and then on the far end of the extroversion scale you would have someone with a personality disorder.
For myself, my psychologist considers me an introvert and then my spouse considers me an extorvert. Me, I say I'm a perfect balance between the two. And I do think I'm probably more correct than either of them, that no person in one or the other, but a mixture of the two traits. (But then note all the I's I use!)
Now for the sensitivity, if anyone cares for my opinion. My psych has tried to explain how this affects me. I'll use the expample of playing cards. On a good day I would be able to recall what cards have been played. On a bad day I would have a hard time keeping track of who's turn it is and believe that everyone is cheating, because my preception is so off. His reasoning for this is that my brain isn't able to filter out external things; such as temperature fluctuations, smells, noises, movements, etc.
For myself it doesn't matter what causes the stimulus, everything is overwhelming. Windy days are torture for me, because of the constant noise. A sauna which should be relaxing is agh! But for some reason effexor has helped with this. It hasn't been a cure, but I'm able to focus on one thing more easily. I still get bad days, but it's not a constant thing with the medication.
Oh, by the way, the movie "The Bandits" or just "Bandit," it's a fairly new release has a good protrayal of the introvert by Billy Bob Thorton (I think that's the guys name, he played in Swingblade I think again????.) I think the red haired actress is a good example of an extrovert. In case I'm wrong on either or both accounts the movie is excellent. I personally don't care for Bruce Willis, but in case you do like him he also stars in the movie.
Whistling Willow
ps the character played by billy bob is similar to me, except for the fact that i don't have the hypochondriac features. so if you do find yourself laughing at him, do it quietly because remember i have very good hearing, and am over sensitive
pps my daughter asked me if anyone reads the stuff i write on here. i said who knows? but i'll ask
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 12, 2002, at 15:50:37
In reply to Introvert vs. Extrovert, posted by Willow on May 12, 2002, at 15:40:00
-- I've never looked up the definition:
>> INTROVERT: a person characterized by concern primarily with his own thoughts and feelings AND/OR to direct (the mind, one's inerests, etc.) inward or to things within the self
-- Now I (underlined) would say that introverts are far more likely to think of others' feelings because they're so in touch with their own. But then I'm an introvert. Now all the extroverts are going to pelt me with rocks...
> For myself, my psychologist considers me an introvert and then my spouse considers me an extorvert. Me, I say I'm a perfect balance between the two. And I do think I'm probably more correct than either of them, that no person in one or the other, but a mixture of the two traits. (But then note all the I's I use!)-- isn't it fascinating how different people see us differently. Most of my friends thought I was an extrovert until this last year. I imagine, you're right, Willow - I imagine many people are a mixture. But I do know some extroverts who Cannot spend time alone. It's almost a fear.
> Now for the sensitivity, if anyone cares for my opinion.-- Well, MY HEAVENS, of course we do!!!! ;)
> My psych has tried to explain how this affects me. I'll use the expample of playing cards. On a good day I would be able to recall what cards have been played. On a bad day I would have a hard time keeping track of who's turn it is and believe that everyone is cheating, because my preception is so off. His reasoning for this is that my brain isn't able to filter out external things; such as temperature fluctuations, smells, noises, movements, etc.
-- These are great examples, great explanation...
> For myself it doesn't matter what causes the stimulus, everything is overwhelming. Windy days are torture for me, because of the constant noise. A sauna which should be relaxing is agh! But for some reason effexor has helped with this. It hasn't been a cure, but I'm able to focus on one thing more easily. I still get bad days, but it's not a constant thing with the medication.-- I always noticed an increase in sensitivity to things as I grew manic. This would turn into a paranoia, like you mention, and then eventually hallucinations, blah, blah, blah. Funny that it's Depakote that has helped me.
> Oh, by the way, the movie "The Bandits" or just "Bandit," it's a fairly new release has a good protrayal of the introvert by Billy Bob Thorton (I think that's the guys name, he played in Swingblade I think again????.) I think the red haired actress is a good example of an extrovert. In case I'm wrong on either or both accounts the movie is excellent. I personally don't care for Bruce Willis, but in case you do like him he also stars in the movie.
-- You got it right. It's Cate Blanchett, I believe, who played the redhead.
> ps the character played by billy bob is similar to me, except for the fact that i don't have the hypochondriac features. so if you do find yourself laughing at him, do it quietly because remember i have very good hearing, and am over sensitive-- now i will be looking for that when i see it...
> pps my daughter asked me if anyone reads the stuff i write on here. i said who knows? but i'll ask
-- you tell her YES, YES, YES!!! And Happy Mother's Day!
Posted by susan C on May 12, 2002, at 20:07:15
In reply to Introvert vs. Extrovert, posted by Willow on May 12, 2002, at 15:40:00
Posted by Willow on May 12, 2002, at 20:14:23
In reply to ah, that's why introverts get a bad rap... » Willow, posted by Krazy Kat on May 12, 2002, at 15:50:37
no one is on the board! It's Mother's Day? Hmph, may explain how come my children are playing so well on their own. Their little gift for their somewhat frazzled mother.
> introverts are far more likely to think of
Kat a Wise Owl you'll always be to me! The whole thing is I think we think too much. We think about other's feelings, we think about the enviornment, we think about the future, we think about the past, we think about our relationships, we think about our worth, yaada yaada yada. (Where did I pick up that phrase from? Yaada? From the board? From a particular poster? Oh well I like it.)
>some extroverts who Cannot spend time alone. It's almost a fear.
Now everyone will know I've spent too much time at my psych's office. He's explained to me that an extrovert sees themselves through the reflection of other's perceptions of them. So an extrovert not wanting be left without company reflects what you are saying.
>
>
> > Now for the sensitivity, if anyone cares for my opinion. -- Well, MY HEAVENS, of course we do!!!! ;)
Kat, this was at the point my daughter was getting annoyed with me for plopping away on the pc. Even if my posts were ignored, I would still post away just to hear (or see) myself yap. I am a very verbal introvert.
>
> -- I always noticed an increase in sensitivity to things as I grew manic. This would turn into a paranoia, like you mention, and then eventually hallucinations, blah, blah, blah.Last week I had, what I would call, a visual hallucination when I was really tired. I went and tried to do a search on visual hallucinations and ended up at illusions, which my visual thing was more of. So here's my latest theory, well it isn't really a recent thinking since I've believed this for a long time but anyway, poor sleep or being sleep deprived really sends the old brain on a "bad trip." I've wondered for a long time if sleep was able to induced if these problems could be avoided.
Infrequently, when I'm really tired I've been dreaming but still awake. What I mean is I've still been standing or whatever, and start dreaming, someone would usually be prodding me verbally out of it. I guess they are easiest described as "mini-dreams." What's my point? Gees, I don't know, perhaps if we could get regular sleep these symptoms wouldn't be as bad.
Waking Willow
Posted by Fi on May 13, 2002, at 11:27:35
In reply to ah, that's why introverts get a bad rap... » Willow, posted by Krazy Kat on May 12, 2002, at 15:50:37
Hi all!
I like the following description, which certainly fits me and the people I know. Introverts may get on well with people, and like them (or not, of course!) but being with people uses up their energy reserves. They need time on their own to 'refuel'. Extroverts are the opposite- their energy is topped up by contact with others, and they wilt on their own.
I partly like this as it can explain why you may get on with people, at least sometimes, but still be an introvert and be exhausted by extrovert friends!
(Shouldnt be doing this at work but cant face more of the post-holiday heap on my desk....)
Fi
Posted by wendy b. on May 13, 2002, at 11:31:49
In reply to Re: ah, that's why ... » Krazy Kat, posted by Willow on May 12, 2002, at 20:14:23
Willow et al,
Now that you mention it, I have these waking-dream moments, too. It's like I'll imagine a sequel to an event or situation that's happening, and I'm tired, and it's almost nodding off, but you're still there, standing or talking or whatever. So it's a there-but-not-there feeling, and you want to go off into that hallucination, but the current situation demands that you stay in the moment....
Sorry, I just checked the boards for the first time since Thursday (was at a wedding). So, don't mean to butt in to the conversation already begun...
I think "yadda yadda yadda" is a Seinfeld quip. He at least brought it into common parlance, I'm almost positive. It went along with the "this show is about nothing" theme - yadda yadda yadda is just filler talk, like "er" or "umm," doesn't really convey a message except "I could go on, but it's more of the same..."
Blah blah blah. It's all about nothing.We always liked "blah-blah, woof-woof." We said this LONG before Seinfeld came along...
Anyway, the intrvert-extrovert thing: I'm not sure, but I think I don't like the terminology we've been doled out here by the psychologists or the social-psychologists, or whomever the people are who make their livings off "testing" people like us, or inventing those tests and then doling them out like there is some "truth" to their categories... I think the dichotomy between internalness and externalness is a man-made (human-made) split. Maybe, if we assume those properties exist within the human psyche, we're all both, and we just alternate between them, some more one way, some more the other? If I do assume the split, I think no one could ever be JUST one of those categories. It's too inexorable (Willow, I anticipate a dictionary check so here goes... 1) that which cannot be moved or influenced by persuasion or entreaty; unrelenting, & 2) that which cannot be altered, checked).
So if the Meyers-Briggs test says I'm an ENFP (I think that was it? don't remember the category-splits, so I don't know what any of it means except the "E") - does this mean I am never depressed, turned inward, need time alone, quiet, etc.? Not at all. The test-makers give themselves an out and deliver some disclaimer that no one is any of these all the time, but it's just a way of thinking about one's own personality, in order to make decisions about careers (mostly). I think they said I would make a good social worker or French teacher... Whatever... (ah ha! another filler word!!)
Just some thoughts, does anyone ever read my posts? Willow, we care very deeply what you are saying and talking about! I think you are one of the wisest, most funny, and most caring persons on the board...
Wishing you a lovely, rainy Monday...
Wendy
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 13, 2002, at 13:04:49
In reply to Re: ah, that's why ... » Willow, posted by wendy b. on May 13, 2002, at 11:31:49
Posted by Ritch on May 13, 2002, at 13:46:27
In reply to Introvert/extrovert- energy, posted by Fi on May 13, 2002, at 11:27:35
Posted by sid on May 13, 2002, at 20:20:30
In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » IsoM, posted by Ritch on May 11, 2002, at 22:51:40
Hi Mitch,
I feel the same. A group makes me shy and self-conscious, but in a one-to-one conversation I feel perfectly fine. I guess I'm a HSP, and I am an INTP (I am sure of I and T, but I can't remember what N and P stand for, so I'm not so sure of those...) on the Meyer-Briggs test. Like IsoM, I need a lot of time alone, else, I feel I lose track of me. It's like I need to check in and make sure I'm still there, in one piece.- sid
Posted by sid on May 13, 2002, at 20:26:44
In reply to Re: ah, that's why ... » Krazy Kat, posted by Willow on May 12, 2002, at 20:14:23
Posted by sid on May 13, 2002, at 20:27:48
In reply to Introvert/extrovert- energy, posted by Fi on May 13, 2002, at 11:27:35
Posted by Ritch on May 13, 2002, at 23:11:10
In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » Ritch, posted by sid on May 13, 2002, at 20:20:30
> Hi Mitch,
> I feel the same. A group makes me shy and self-conscious, but in a one-to-one conversation I feel perfectly fine. I guess I'm a HSP, and I am an INTP (I am sure of I and T, but I can't remember what N and P stand for, so I'm not so sure of those...) on the Meyer-Briggs test. Like IsoM, I need a lot of time alone, else, I feel I lose track of me. It's like I need to check in and make sure I'm still there, in one piece.
>
> - sidHi,
I was thinking about all of this today while I was at work and came to the conclusion that intro-extro-vert is just a language label with a bunch of memory baggage (from the psychobabble of the '70's) that corrupts the whole reality of the concept. Groups *do* make me shy, but when I have had to do a public speech, I start out shaking to the foundations, but...when I get to going,,when I get to flowing,,,I really get into it and *like* it! You are a *teacher*, right? I have always been told by people (teachers included), that I would make a killer teacher or lawyer, but it just scares the bejezus out of me. The only award I got at high school (besides math) was for creative writing and public speaking. Wonderful. I feel like I have been given all of these neato gifts and I can't use them because I panic. My pdoc wants me to take an acting class. God, that really scares me! How do you handle the anxiety of teaching a new class every semester?
Oh, I think P and N are terms for transistors- PNP and NPN. :) Eeek, the smiley-face thing is a little eerie nowadays. Shiny black FBI shoes at the artschools...
Mitch
Posted by IsoM on May 14, 2002, at 2:21:55
In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » sid, posted by Ritch on May 13, 2002, at 23:11:10
For any ionterested in the Myer-Briggs type, this site has it:
http://www.personalitypage.com/high-level.html
If you click on each red 'here' link below the description, it'll explain far more in better detail.I clearly fall into what they call a "ENFP - Extraverted iNtuitive Feeling Perceiving
(Extraverted Intuition with Introverted Feeling)" or an Inspirer. ...okay, all those who've felt inspired by me raise your hands? :-)Actually, it is very close to describing my personality accurately. especially the part that says
"Unlike other Extraverted types, ENFPs need time alone to center themselves, and make sure they are moving in a direction which is in sync with their values."
Posted by sid on May 14, 2002, at 9:08:17
In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » sid, posted by Ritch on May 13, 2002, at 23:11:10
Hi Mitch,
actually, speaking in front of a gorup is not the same as speaking among a group. Then there is much more interaction and it's a lot more personal. When you give a speech or teach, you have a specific topic and people try to get to know that topic, not you. I can talk about personal things and be entertaining with one or two people, but in a group, I kind of disappear. When I teach, it's a role I'm playing. I'm prepared - I talk about the day's topic, answer questions, give homeworks, there's nothing personal in it. Teaching, giving a speech, as well as acting, are rather impersonal, anonymous things to do. It's not you out there, it's the professional in you, the actor in you. Anyway, there's a huge difference for me. At parties I usually sit in one place, talk to a few people, no more than that. I'm rather ill at ease in such settings.Like IsoM however, I seem to get life stories of people (and their problems) out in no time at all - even when I really don't want to know about it. I remember one Xmas party at a boss' house, My God ! A friend of hers told me her life story in 5 minutes, with all the gory details, the unhappiness, etc... I was so angry to even have beem to that party. I found this person soooo clinging and unpleasant, I could not believe she had chosen me to dump this all on. Anyway, since then, I have learned to change seat or leave when that happens. I had my own problems (being depressive and contemplating suicide at the time), and I could not believe the unpleasant evening I had spent there. Still, I sat there rather than move around and talk to more people, because I was shy I guess.
Oh well. No wonder I don't enjoy parties.
- sid
Posted by sid on May 14, 2002, at 9:11:47
In reply to Myer-Briggs Types » Ritch, posted by IsoM on May 14, 2002, at 2:21:55
INTP
Excerpt from
http://www.personalitypage.com/high-level.htmlI am definitely INTP (Introverted iNtuitive Thinking Perceiving - Introverted Thinking with Extraverted Intuition):
Logical, original, creative thinkers. Can become very excited about theories and ideas. Exceptionally capable and driven to turn theories into clear understandings. Highly value knowledge, competence and logic. Quiet and reserved, hard to get to know well. Individualistic, having no interest in leading or following others.
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 14, 2002, at 10:04:19
In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » sid, posted by Ritch on May 13, 2002, at 23:11:10
Mitch:
I agree, they're just terms. But I've found that so many people I have met, especially in business, don't understand the concept of "time alone" or being quiet, and also that many people THINK they're introverts, when that really means they spend an hour alone before bed each day. :)
People can take a quiet attitude as an attack, when it's just a different personality type. Odd to me.
I guess I feel distinctly in the minority, which is fine, but it causes communication problems, and can mean that certain people aren't meant for "outgoing" jobs, or outgoing lifestyles.
I have a best friend from High School who still cannot understand why I spend so much time alone now. She used to see me when I was manic a lot, and putting on a "false bravado" of sorts. I don't think she'll ever get it.
Also, I have a real problem with people being "invasive". I am very private, and I find it fascinating when strangers act as if I am being "rude" when I don't want to "spill my guts". This was really a problem in the office. I was considered an ice queen until people got to know. And even then...
Just thinking aloud...
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 14, 2002, at 10:05:27
In reply to Myer-Briggs Types » Ritch, posted by IsoM on May 14, 2002, at 2:21:55
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 14, 2002, at 10:07:13
In reply to Re: Myer-Briggs Types » IsoM, posted by sid on May 14, 2002, at 9:11:47
That's me, too, sid, though this:
Exceptionally capable and driven to turn theories into clear understandings
is pretty far from the truth. I am a Lazy SOB! :)
- kk
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.