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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by IsoM on February 2, 2002, at 23:55:39
Is it just me & my headache, or what?
I'm trying to relax & watch Kenneth Branagh's Henry V on the History Channel. I was looking forward to it as I'm a real history buff, but other than absorbing a lot of the atmosphere & emotions of the characters, it might as well be in another language. I can't make any sense of it. And I've seen Shakespeare plays before & enjoyed them.
Anyone else seen this one? Is it my headache making me so thick or is the dialogue that obscure? I'm really baffled.
Posted by Jonathan on February 3, 2002, at 12:41:03
In reply to Shakespeare's Henry V, posted by IsoM on February 2, 2002, at 23:55:39
> Is it just me & my headache, or what?
>
> I'm trying to relax & watch Kenneth Branagh's Henry V on the History Channel. I was looking forward to it as I'm a real history buff, but other than absorbing a lot of the atmosphere & emotions of the characters, it might as well be in another language. I can't make any sense of it. And I've seen Shakespeare plays before & enjoyed them.
>
> Anyone else seen this one? Is it my headache making me so thick or is the dialogue that obscure? I'm really baffled.Dear Lady IsoM :)
Perhaps Elizabethan English (Hi, Elizabeth!) is a little different from what you hear and speak every day in 21st century Canada, eh? As you suggested, some of the dialogue in Shakespeare's English historical plays like Henry V is more obscure than in Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet, etc: one wouldn't expect the inhabitants of Elsinore or Verona to speak the impenetrable colloquial London dialect of the groundlings in Shakespeare's audience at the Globe Theatre. You might have similar difficulties in understanding the dialogue in some of our contemporary TV soap operas like Eastenders or Coronation Street. Also, other directors often simplify the language and/or cut out difficult passages altogether, whilst Kenneth Branagh believes in being absolutely faithful to Shakespeare's original text. My wife, who shares Branagh's and my belief in being absolutely faithful in every sense, was amused to observe that the following was cut from the Mel Gibson/Zefirelli film of Hamlet, in her opinion because it might offend English audiences and thus reduce ticket sales:
=^..^=
Hamlet (incognito): Ay, marry, why was he sent to England? ...
Gravedigger: Why, because he was mad: he shall recover his wits
there, or, if he do not, it's no great matter there.Hamlet: Why?
Gravedigger: 'Twill a not be seen in him there; there the men
are as mad as he.=^..^=
Not too hard to understand, was it? Now compare this, from Henry V, Act II, Scene 1 (and your cats are so cool, I've taken the liberty of using them as bookends):
=^..^=
Pist. Pish for thee, Iceland dog! thou prick-eared cur of Iceland!
Host. Good Corporal Nym, show thy valour and put up your sword.
Nym. Will you shog off? I would have you solus. [Sheathing his sword.
Pist. Solus, egregious dog? O viper vile!
The solus in thy most mervailous face;
The solus in thy teeth, and in thy throat,
And in thy hateful lungs, yea, in thy maw, perdy;
And, which is worse, within thy nasty mouth!
I do retort the solus in thy bowels;
For I can take, and Pistol’s cock is up,
And flashing fire will follow.Nym. I am not Barbason; you cannot conjure me. I have an humour to knock you
indifferently well. If you grow foul with me, Pistol, I will scour you with my rapier, as I may, in
fair terms: if you would walk off, I would prick your guts a little, in good terms, as I may; and
that’s the humour of it.Pist. O braggart vile and damned furious wight!
The grave doth gape, and doting death is near;
Therefore exhale.Bard. Hear me, hear me what I say: he that strikes the first stroke, I’ll run him up to the hilts,
as I am a soldier. [Draws.Pist. An oath of mickle might, and fury shall abate.
Give me thy fist, thy fore-foot to me give;
Thy spirits are most tall.Nym. I will cut thy throat, one time or other, in fair terms; that is the humour of it.
Pist. Coupe le gorge!
That is the word. I thee defy again.
O hound of Crete, think’st thou my spouse to get?
No; to the spital go,
And from the powdering-tub of infamy
Fetch forth the lazar kite of Cressid’s kind,
Doll Tearsheet she by name, and her espouse:
I have, and I will hold, the quondam Quickly
For the only she; and—pauca, there’s enough.
Go to.=^..^=
Methinks our noble physician Dr-Bob will have an humour to knock me with his "Please be civil" for the above, or perchance bid me "Shog off" for aye; for the Bard is more bawdy than my liege the good apothecary Cam. "Throw Physick to the dogs; I'll none of it!" (The Scottish Play, Act V, Scene 3).
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/litnotes/shakeglossa-e.html
Fair Lady Emma (or art Thou, perchance, the Dark Lady of my Sonnets?), we need your brilliant mind and your education in English Literature; how did I do? Does my explanation of why Branagh's Henry V seems so impenetrable sound reasonable to you?
You haven't posted for a few days and I'm becoming concerned about you: no-one could have predicted your suicide attempt a fortnight ago from your posts here that preceded it. Please don't feel that anyone is criticising you for not posting: it has only been a few days and your life away from PSB is more important than anything. I have even less right to complain than others, because I've been too inconsolably miserable to post here, or answer email, or to do anything since my worsening illness lost me my job last summer, which precipitated a further decline; and for the preceding year I was too busy trying to hold onto that job to post much. Anyway, all your many friends here are non-judgmental about everything you do, as you pointed out in one of your recent posts. Conditional friendship, like conditional love, is an oxymoron.
I do hope the rehab clinic will not be lazar's spital you feared. :)
Jonathan.
Posted by Jonathan on February 3, 2002, at 12:44:28
In reply to Pish! (2nd draft) » IsoM, ELA, posted by Jonathan on February 3, 2002, at 12:41:03
Posted by IsoM on February 3, 2002, at 17:05:34
In reply to Pish! (2nd draft) » IsoM, ELA, posted by Jonathan on February 3, 2002, at 12:41:03
Oh, it was my headache making things so much worse, me thinks! Loved your little inserts! Thank you so much - very much appreciated today. If you like my kitty icon, you should se the real ones I have. Very, very unusual cats. Two are raw green bean eaters, for example. All three sit up to beg. There's much more.
About Henry V - in frustration, I logged on to a site with the whole played printed out. During commercial breaks, I went to the monitor & would read ahead so I knew what was being said & who each character was. It helped greatly!
I do understand why a lot was difficult. It's one thing to understand Elizabethean prose, it's altogether a different thing when it's old English slang. Shog off is close enough to sog off for me, but much is very different.
I think the loud buzzing & different tones ringing in my ears contributed to the difficulty making out what was said too.
Kenneth Branagh does stay quite close to the real wording. Still, Branagh took the liberty of adding the French army slaughtering the boys. It wasn't in Shakespeare's play. But then Shakespeare, himself, took the liberty of failing to mention that Henry ordered all the French prisoners killed, something that was unheard of in warfare then!
I've read previously on the Battle of Agincourt & how brutal it was (also saw a documentary on the bodies found there this past decade & how horrific war was by the sahpe of the bones), but I never realised that the whole Battle of Agincourt only lasted an hour! Set me off to reading again about Henry, Charles, & Katherine. Henry V never even got to see his infant son, Henry VI as he died shortly before his father-in-law, Charles did.
Posted by Krazy Kat on February 7, 2002, at 10:51:16
In reply to Pish! (2nd draft) » IsoM, ELA, posted by Jonathan on February 3, 2002, at 12:41:03
Jonathan:
I had not caught this thread before.
Are you a Shakespearean scholar? Or is it a love?
I feel so alone in my love of that period, and his work.
- KK
Posted by Krazy Kat on February 7, 2002, at 13:09:12
In reply to Shakespeare's Henry V, posted by IsoM on February 2, 2002, at 23:55:39
IsoM:
I think Jonathan gave an excellent reply. Did you end up making it through the movie? Branaugh can be difficult to understand on his own... :)
I do love that movie, though, and may go get it now. The staging is incredible.
As You Like It is another of my favorites - he did that with Emma Thompson.
- KK
Posted by IsoM on February 7, 2002, at 14:14:42
In reply to Re: Shakespeare's Henry V » IsoM, posted by Krazy Kat on February 7, 2002, at 13:09:12
Yes, Komfy Kat, I love the works too. After downloading the play from a site, I'd read up on what was to be said next so I could follow it. Normally, with a combined headache & toothache, I wouldn't even have tried TV but wanted to see this play so bad. I'd only caught the tailend months ago before & promised I'd watch it again. I'll have to rewatch it when I feel better.
I've watched "Much Ado About Nothing" with Branagh & Emma Thompson & thoroughly enjoyed it. I didn't know he did "As You Like It".
All plays tend to read dry but it's in their performance that they come to life. Way back in high school, they brought in a troop of young local Shakespearean actors who did a performance for the school. I was entranced. It came to life in front of me & I was hooked forever!
I love history, medieval & Renaissance are my favourites. I'll watch almost anything of that time period if it holds true & isn't just dressed-up modern tripe.
Posted by Krazy Kat on February 7, 2002, at 17:34:18
In reply to Re: Shakespeare's Works » Krazy Kat, posted by IsoM on February 7, 2002, at 14:14:42
IsoM:
Wow, I agree with you completely. At Colorado University in Boulder, a troupe came regularly. Some fine actors were in it - Val Kilmer, etc.
Anyhoo, my parents and I were outraged when they started to set the play in modern times - 40's gangster style for example. Ug! Although I do enjoy DeCaprio and Claire's rendition of Romeo and Juliet on DVD.
You are correct about the Branagh/Thompson play - it Was "Much Ado About Nothing". I always get them mixed up.
My favorite teacher in college was my Shakespeare teacher - he was so full of life and breathed that life into the works. If I could concentrate well enough, I would go back to school so I could teach Shakespeare.
- KK
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