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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by akc on December 5, 2001, at 9:30:28
Feel like I have posted way too much lately. You all have been wonderful with your support, your suggestions, just being here for me. Unfortunately, nothing seems to be helping. I just want to let myself go crazy -- but I don't want to end up in the hospital. Being responsible when you are depressed is so hard to do -- but knowing if I am not, I will only hate myself more than I do at this moment. Trying to be focused here at work. Without much success. Hate it. I have to focus -- I have to.
akc
Posted by Greg on December 5, 2001, at 9:46:43
In reply to A broken record, posted by akc on December 5, 2001, at 9:30:28
> Feel like I have posted way too much lately. You all have been wonderful with your support, your suggestions, just being here for me. Unfortunately, nothing seems to be helping. I just want to let myself go crazy -- but I don't want to end up in the hospital. Being responsible when you are depressed is so hard to do -- but knowing if I am not, I will only hate myself more than I do at this moment. Trying to be focused here at work. Without much success. Hate it. I have to focus -- I have to.
>
> akcI think it's good that you continue to talk about your feelings. Some of the alternatives are frightening eh? Do you mind if I ask what your dx is and what meds you take? Answer when you can, I know you're trying to focus on work. I wish I had some work to focus on, VERY slow today....
Greg
Posted by akc on December 5, 2001, at 10:12:02
In reply to Re: A broken record, posted by Greg on December 5, 2001, at 9:46:43
Greg,
Bipolar II, PTSD, Alcohlism -- officially. Toyed over the past two years with the borderline diagnosis, though we haven't talked about it recently. Also deal with a lot of anxiety, though that has been more under control under the mix I've been on the past 6 months (below) -- it now is not as constant or as severe (well, today it is pretty awful).
I am on 300/600 mg lithium (she's adding another 300 at lunchtime starting now)
200/200 mg seroquel
75 effexor xr
50/50 topamax
and
50-150 prn trazadone.Let's see, it is 45 minutes since my last post -- no work done! Focusing is going well today, wouldn't you say?
My alternatives are horribly frightening.
akc
Posted by Greg on December 5, 2001, at 11:04:26
In reply to Re: A broken record » Greg, posted by akc on December 5, 2001, at 10:12:02
Wow, I think every med you take is in my been there, done that medicine cabinet. Except for the Topamax, I still take that, I like the way it keeps my moods under control, but it sure does give me an incredible case of the stupids sometimes. If Cam reads this, he WILL say something... I noticed no benzos on the list, because of the alcoholism I assume? I took Xanax for a long time and they started to lose there effectiveness and I was taking them to the point of abuse. I asked my psych to change me to Klonopin and it's been great. It lasts much longer and some days I only take one .5 mg tab instead of the 2 I'm supposed to take. My anxiety gets really bad and I couldn't imagine trying to get thru a day without something for it.
I once had somebody ask me if it bothered me that I lead a "chemically induced lifestyle". I thought for a minute, and told him "Let me stop taking the meds for a few days, and then I'll let you come back and answer that question".
So is your day getting any better? Getting any work done? Am I bugging the living hell out of you? :)
I'll be glad to help you with your work, just send it to:
Greg
Posted by akc on December 5, 2001, at 14:20:20
In reply to Re: A broken record, posted by Greg on December 5, 2001, at 11:04:26
> I'll be glad to help you with your work, just send it to:
>
> goingcrazy@boredtodeath.com
>
> GregI didn't send work, but I did send a message!
Posted by Greg on December 5, 2001, at 14:28:10
In reply to Re: A broken record » Greg, posted by akc on December 5, 2001, at 14:20:20
> > I'll be glad to help you with your work, just send it to:
> >
> > goingcrazy@boredtodeath.com
> >
> > Greg
>
> I didn't send work, but I did send a message!Oh....I guess I probably should have mentioned that it was something I just made up off the top of my head huh? I kinda forgot it would show up as a link....duh.
Posted by akc on December 5, 2001, at 15:09:47
In reply to Re: A broken record » akc, posted by Greg on December 5, 2001, at 14:28:10
Don't I feel like the total fool! I should have know that was not a legit address. The message itself has not yet been bounced by yahoo. I sent it some time ago, too.
Let's see if I can recreate what I said. It was mainly about my meds.
This combination has given me the most even good periods I have had in my life. I think we have the right mix. The problem is that I am still fundamentally a person who does not know how to live life on life's terms. I've done better as of late. When I have had a triggering event, I have been able to pull out of it before I have spiraled the past few times. Again, a sign that my meds are working, I believe.
What is going on right now I don't believe has anything to do with my meds. My pdoc is tweaking my lithium -- I'm a little nervous about that because the last time I was at this level, my thyroid began to be depressed. And I sure don't want to add anything new -- she has talked about stuff like opiate blockers and all to help prevent the relief I may get from some of my activities like cutting. I don't think I will go there. It just seems to me to be leaving me in a lot of pain with no choices, good or bad.
I'm really mad at my t at the moment. I want to talk about it with someone, but I don't want to be going behind her back -- I don't know what to do. She has laid down why I feel are ultimatums. If you want to get well, you have to do this. And knowing full well that I have struggled with doing what she is suggesting. And bringing this up for the first time in months -- when I am at the heart of a crisis. So I have as choices -- do "this" to get well, something that terrifies me because of my failed attempts in the past, if you don't you will stay sick and stuck, and if you can't stay safe, you must go into the hospital. That is what I have heard. By the way, with the "this," of course, it isn't necessarily quick and immediate relief -- it will be a slow process, but it is the solution.
I tried the if I were in physical pain, someone would be trying to give me some immediate relief. That was a voicemail last night that I have not got a response. My pdoc won't respond to that either -- all the immediate stuff is bad for me because I am in recovery -- alcohol, xanax, cutting -- in those categories.
I am angry because those who are suppose to be able to help don't seem to have many answers for this moment. I just cannot stand more of this.
But I've got to be a good kid -- do my homework -- be the star pupil -- get my work done that has to be done by 4 pm tomorrow regardless of anything else. So I have got to concentrate for more than 15 minutes at a stretch (my limit it seems today).
I don't know what to do.
akc
p.s. this was nothing like I sent to you in the email!
Posted by Greg on December 5, 2001, at 19:17:18
In reply to Re: A broken record » Greg, posted by akc on December 5, 2001, at 15:09:47
> Don't I feel like the total fool! I should have know that was not a legit address. The message itself has not yet been bounced by yahoo. I sent it some time ago, too.
My fault...I should have said something. My sense of humor is an acquired taste, some acquire, many don't.
>
> Let's see if I can recreate what I said. It was mainly about my meds.
>
> This combination has given me the most even good periods I have had in my life. I think we have the right mix. The problem is that I am still fundamentally a person who does not know how to live life on life's terms. I've done better as of late. When I have had a triggering event, I have been able to pull out of it before I have spiraled the past few times. Again, a sign that my meds are working, I believe.Living life on life's terms is the thing I think. Life doesn't care if you have a bad day at work or get stuck in traffic, it don't care if you fight with a loved one or somebody you care about dies. It makes you live it regardless, and a lot of times that sucks. I think it's good that you feel that your meds are working, but you should also give yourself some credit that you have developed some coping skills. Our meds only just so far, we have to do some of the legwork too. Give yourself a pat on the back once in awhile.
>
> What is going on right now I don't believe has anything to do with my meds. My pdoc is tweaking my lithium -- I'm a little nervous about that because the last time I was at this level, my thyroid began to be depressed. And I sure don't want to add anything new -- she has talked about stuff like opiate blockers and all to help prevent the relief I may get from some of my activities like cutting. I don't think I will go there. It just seems to me to be leaving me in a lot of pain with no choices, good or bad.Playing with my meds about drove me up a wall. I didn't know from one day to the next what I was supposed to be taking or at what dose. I had to put a white board up in my kitchen (it's still there) so I could keep track of everything. I know that drove Cam nuts with all the question about my meds. Probably why he picks on me so much...
>
> I'm really mad at my t at the moment. I want to talk about it with someone, but I don't want to be going behind her back -- I don't know what to do. She has laid down why I feel are ultimatums. If you want to get well, you have to do this. And knowing full well that I have struggled with doing what she is suggesting. And bringing this up for the first time in months -- when I am at the heart of a crisis. So I have as choices -- do "this" to get well, something that terrifies me because of my failed attempts in the past, if you don't you will stay sick and stuck, and if you can't stay safe, you must go into the hospital. That is what I have heard. By the way, with the "this," of course, it isn't necessarily quick and immediate relief -- it will be a slow process, but it is the solution.I'm just talking out loud here, but could maybe part of the problem be that there are too many therapists? I've heard you mention a few and a pdoc. Do they all talk to each other? Are they all on the same page? Have you considered seeing one person for your therapy and your meds?
>
> I tried the if I were in physical pain, someone would be trying to give me some immediate relief. That was a voicemail last night that I have not got a response. My pdoc won't respond to that either -- all the immediate stuff is bad for me because I am in recovery -- alcohol, xanax, cutting -- in those categories.
>
> I am angry because those who are suppose to be able to help don't seem to have many answers for this moment. I just cannot stand more of this.
>
> But I've got to be a good kid -- do my homework -- be the star pupil -- get my work done that has to be done by 4 pm tomorrow regardless of anything else. So I have got to concentrate for more than 15 minutes at a stretch (my limit it seems today).
>
> I don't know what to do.You're obviously butting heads with your therapist, you don't want to do what he/she wants you to do. You're not productive at work. You're tired, confused and very stressed.
Your mind and your body are sending you some very clear messages right now, you need rest. Whether it be at a hospital, or taking a vacation with maybe a daytime outpatient group therapy thing. Take some time off. Life will waiting for you when you get back.
> akc
>
> p.s. this was nothing like I sent to you in the email!
Posted by Cam W. on December 6, 2001, at 0:28:04
In reply to Re: A broken record, posted by Greg on December 5, 2001, at 19:17:18
AKC - The first time I went to Greg's house he put a cupboard full of ineffective medication on the table in chronological order. We went through them trying to find out what went right and wrong with each of them. Finally, over the next few months, Greg was able to find an almost good mix, which has only been tweaked a few times over the past year or so. I think that he is getting closer to finding the right mix. Greg is one cool and caring guy. He is married to a saint, though; so that must help.
Psychiatry is very much trial and error. Like my dad use to say (and I think it applies in this context of finding the right medication mix), "Ya gotta kiss a lot of frogs before you find your princess."
Take care. - Cam
P.S. Greg...now what would I say about the Topamax cognition problems? I mean after all, I had to give you directions around your city...before Topamax.
=oP
Posted by mair on December 6, 2001, at 7:54:29
In reply to Re: A broken record AKC and » Greg, posted by Cam W. on December 6, 2001, at 0:28:04
If you wouldn't mind, could you email me your email address at Mair_9@yahoo.com? I'd like to respond to some of what you've been posting lately, but I'd rather do it off-board. It would be too long a message for here, and for me maybe too personal a message. I'd understand if you don't want to, also, but I think I can offer some helpful advice.
Mair
Posted by akc on December 6, 2001, at 9:49:01
In reply to Re: A broken record AKC and » Greg, posted by Cam W. on December 6, 2001, at 0:28:04
Cam,
I just am really struggling with the concept that this is not about my meds, but rather about my inablity to deal with life on lifes terms -- as much as I hate posts that tell people to quit whining and get on with life, take action, etc., tht is what I kinda think I need to do right now. Having made it through some real triggering events these past few months, about losing my mom, caring for her in her illness, the terrorist atacks, my surgery, and handling these things quite well -- not manic, but real even, the fact that I have deteriorated and then snapped -- I don't know -- it just doesn't seem like it should be the meds. They seemed to be doing well. And up to a week ago, even though I was struggling, I was winning. And while my mom is still ill, and pressures at work are heavy, I have not had any one big trigger -- makes me think it is in my head.
So I don't know what to think about the meds. Plus the idea of depakote scares me (one idea she threw out last night), I don't know much about gedeon (sp?), and she gave me the wrong (groan) benzo -- I wanted xanax because I wanted the rush -- wrong reason, but it is what I wanted -- that quick fix.
I really do trust my pdoc. We had a rough spot or two a while back -- typical of any of these relationships, but she understands me and is sticking by me in all of this. As are all the people involved in my treatment. I don't understand that at all -- I've got to be causing them to really scratch their heads, because I was doing so good, and now this.
Whew, long winded, sorry about that. I just continue to struggle. Don't know when this will end! Wish someone could figure the meds out and solve all my problems -- but the meds are not the problem -- I really think this is going to ultimately continue regardless of whatever meds I am on I am afraid, unless I do learn better coping skills for when the brain storm arrives.
akc
Posted by Cam W. on December 6, 2001, at 10:32:23
In reply to Re: A broken record » Cam W., posted by akc on December 6, 2001, at 9:49:01
AKC - A good cognitive psychologist may be able to help you deal with a lot of this shit. I was amazed at how much mine had to offer me. She was able to dissect a lot of my problems and pick apart my negative self-thought. You are probably right, it probably isn't the meds, but may be the shitload of stress that you are (and have been) under contributing to how you feel. I know that my pdoc could never do what my psychologist does. She has made me realize that I don't need to be a product of my past.
Hang in there - Cam
P.S. Respond to Mair by email; there is a lot of insight to be gained.
Posted by akc on December 6, 2001, at 11:00:37
In reply to Re: A broken record » akc, posted by Cam W. on December 6, 2001, at 10:32:23
Cam,
I think part of the problem at this moment is figuring out why I want to be stuck. I am fortunate that I am working with not only a good pdoc, but also a good therapist. I've gone through one of the best cognitive programs in this part of the world (back in 98). I've got a lot of tools in my basket -- but for some reason, I don't seem to be able to use them -- I've found them lacking.
However, after I almost lost my mom in August, I started declaring I wanted to get serious and get better. Maybe this is just a bump in the road. I have been trying to do as suggested by those with the knowledge and experience that I have surrounded myself with.
Thanks for sharing. I'll file it within.
I've emailed mair -- I'm sure we will hook up.
akc
Posted by Shar on December 7, 2001, at 11:15:21
In reply to Re: A broken record » Cam W., posted by akc on December 6, 2001, at 11:00:37
"I want to be stuck"
I'm wondering if it is helpful for you to take how you feel and tell yourself that's how you want to feel or be?
In the here and now, one could say "I am stuck" or "I feel stuck" and work on that in the here and now, to whatever extent possible.
There are a multitude of reasons that we all get stuck. I understand the therapeutic idea of "wanting" to be a certain way, or "getting something out of" being or feeling a certain way....but I really heartily disagree with the logic upon which it is based.
Being 'stuck' may be a way for you to avoid dealing with something threatening, frightening, or even exciting. However, it is happening in the here and now (even if it is a remnant from your past) and it would seem that the work is to check out what exists in the here and now, what is reality right now, stay with it, let it unfold, accept not being focused, and maybe think a bit about it (have you been here before, what was happening when you felt this the last time).
A wise person said, it's ok to look at the past, but don't stare.
Accept it all as how you are in the here and now without struggling so much against it; resistance is futile, as the Borg would say--you are where you are. The idea being, it's an option to say "I feel really stuck about x today" even if you say it 100 days in a row OR saying "I don't feel too stuck today." We all happen in the moment.
That state of being will change; you will not feel this way forever. If you can have an insight, all well and good. If not, it could just be it is not time. That's why acceptance is so wonderful. It let's us do what work we can, without giving ourselves so much BS about how we feel.
And, don't forget the holidays are fast approaching. That is something I don't particularly want to move forward into. Being stuck in part of one's life is a way of not moving forward.
Realize, though, there are many parts of your life in which you are not stuck. The things you accomplish every day (even if on a survival level) are evidence that you do move forward.
Best,
Shar
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