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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by geekUK on September 28, 2001, at 19:48:22
you son of a bastard, mother fucker from sodam and gommora, with gonorea and syphalis to boot(,) me up the ass. My soul is a wave, it comes and it laps the shores with its pestilent, black kisses. Right now I could kill, the anger is so pure.
Anyway 2 the point. I have kind of substituted drinking for self harm. Is this a good move (and dont tell the clean as a wistle, candy coted CLEAN, story. It does not apply). I have never stoped haviong the urge to plunge a razor or to put out the fag, in my arm. I just fight it. now I realise that stubbing ciggarettes out on your arm is veiwed as torture by most. so ,most would think that I ? torture ? myself. truth be told I torture more by not doing it.
but do I give in, it passes the time. Is it a step back?
MC
Posted by Wendy B. on September 28, 2001, at 20:57:56
In reply to self harm, should I start again?, posted by geekUK on September 28, 2001, at 19:48:22
geek,
please don't do any of the things you mention, i won't repeat them...
what have you done to get hold of and deal with the anger? i don't think drinking is better/worse than self-injury. i don't really have much experience with SI, but i did attend a new group therapy thing the other night, all women, and 2/3 were cutters. i was surprised to be put this group of women by my therapist, women who seemed to handle 'stress' by hurting themselves with knives or razors. maybe i handle my stress with equally self-injuring behaviors, they just don't show up on my skin, or in my blood-alcohol content.
substituting alcohol for cutting... i dunno. i can't seem to stand blood, especially my own, so i wouldn't do it. drugs i could do better than booze, nothing hard, just MJ. alcohol was never my thing. but i would say, if it's a matter of having a drink vs. stubbing a fag out in your arm, have the drink. but you need help, sweet thing. you need to talk to someone. you can't stay on the path of self-destruction forever. i would just like to offer my ear (or eye, to read) whenever you need it. can't remember your med and/or therapy regimen, remind me....
gonna go out, and have *one* drink, talk to you later??
wendy
> you son of a bastard, mother fucker from sodam and gommora, with gonorea and syphalis to boot(,) me up the ass. My soul is a wave, it comes and it laps the shores with its pestilent, black kisses. Right now I could kill, the anger is so pure.
> Anyway 2 the point. I have kind of substituted drinking for self harm. Is this a good move (and dont tell the clean as a wistle, candy coted CLEAN, story. It does not apply). I have never stoped haviong the urge to plunge a razor or to put out the fag, in my arm. I just fight it. now I realise that stubbing ciggarettes out on your arm is veiwed as torture by most. so ,most would think that I ? torture ? myself. truth be told I torture more by not doing it.
> but do I give in, it passes the time. Is it a step back?
> MC
Posted by susan C on September 28, 2001, at 21:13:46
In reply to Re: self harm, should I start again?, posted by Wendy B. on September 28, 2001, at 20:57:56
Dear Geek,
no.
meek mouse
susan C> geek,
>
> please don't do any of the things you mention, i won't repeat them...
>
> what have you done to get hold of and deal with the anger? i don't think drinking is better/worse than self-injury. i don't really have much experience with SI, but i did attend a new group therapy thing the other night, all women, and 2/3 were cutters. i was surprised to be put this group of women by my therapist, women who seemed to handle 'stress' by hurting themselves with knives or razors. maybe i handle my stress with equally self-injuring behaviors, they just don't show up on my skin, or in my blood-alcohol content.
>
> substituting alcohol for cutting... i dunno. i can't seem to stand blood, especially my own, so i wouldn't do it. drugs i could do better than booze, nothing hard, just MJ. alcohol was never my thing. but i would say, if it's a matter of having a drink vs. stubbing a fag out in your arm, have the drink. but you need help, sweet thing. you need to talk to someone. you can't stay on the path of self-destruction forever. i would just like to offer my ear (or eye, to read) whenever you need it. can't remember your med and/or therapy regimen, remind me....
>
> gonna go out, and have *one* drink, talk to you later??
>
> wendy
>
>
>
> > you son of a bastard, mother fucker from sodam and gommora, with gonorea and syphalis to boot(,) me up the ass. My soul is a wave, it comes and it laps the shores with its pestilent, black kisses. Right now I could kill, the anger is so pure.
> > Anyway 2 the point. I have kind of substituted drinking for self harm. Is this a good move (and dont tell the clean as a wistle, candy coted CLEAN, story. It does not apply). I have never stoped haviong the urge to plunge a razor or to put out the fag, in my arm. I just fight it. now I realise that stubbing ciggarettes out on your arm is veiwed as torture by most. so ,most would think that I ? torture ? myself. truth be told I torture more by not doing it.
> > but do I give in, it passes the time. Is it a step back?
> > MC
Posted by dreamer on September 28, 2001, at 23:46:57
In reply to self harm, should I start again?, posted by geekUK on September 28, 2001, at 19:48:22
Posted by Zo on September 29, 2001, at 3:19:40
In reply to self harm, should I start again?, posted by geekUK on September 28, 2001, at 19:48:22
Like did you really think we were going to say Yes?
Zo
Posted by Mickey on September 29, 2001, at 9:49:30
In reply to self harm, should I start again?, posted by geekUK on September 28, 2001, at 19:48:22
Ah cool drink how you sooth my tormented soul. I feel free, and I am free, at least momentarily, from that nagging other. But alas he returns with a vengeance, crushing burning cigarette stubs out on my scorched mind and soul. And then, later, we start all over again.
The Mick
Posted by Zo on September 29, 2001, at 19:13:17
In reply to Re: self harm, should I start again?, posted by Mickey on September 29, 2001, at 9:49:30
> Ah cool drink how you sooth my tormented soul. I feel free, and I am free, at least momentarily, from that nagging other. But alas he returns with a vengeance, crushing burning cigarette stubs out on my scorched mind and soul. And then, later, we start all over again.
>
> The MickI think it's bullshit. .. to dramatize the boring, ordinary cycle of addicton, which is Nothing Special, as if it were.
Zo
Posted by geekUK on September 29, 2001, at 20:40:52
In reply to Re: self harm, should I start again? » Mickey, posted by Zo on September 29, 2001, at 19:13:17
yes, I expected the responses, any s.h. (apart from those i know), who have an opinion. A coping mechanism without sin, without expense, without pain. Alcohol fucks up your life, fucks up others life and fucks up your body. cutting fucks up my arm. this is the logic of my question. defy the logic, pleeze.
you might win some but u just lost one,
lauren hillock
Posted by Mickey on September 29, 2001, at 23:41:29
In reply to Re: self harm, should I start again? » Mickey, posted by Zo on September 29, 2001, at 19:13:17
> I think it's bullshit. .. to dramatize the boring, ordinary cycle of addicton, which is Nothing Special, as if it were.
>
> ZoIt's not called drama, it's called poetry. But you can call it anything, even bullshit if you like.
Posted by akc on September 30, 2001, at 8:03:14
In reply to self harm, should I start again?, posted by geekUK on September 28, 2001, at 19:48:22
I'm slow on the response -- as always with any item that hits a little too close to home. I have not self-harmed since February. I don't see this as drama -- whatever the addiction. For me, the self-harm did replace the drinking.
There is no drama here -- whatever is driving this is real. I am not sure I can help you, but I sure hope I can listen.
To answer your question -- No. I hope you have not begun again. While drinking can be just as damaging physically, I think there is a psychological damage that is greater when we self-harm. It is so not accepted socially -- there is so much more shame around it. But the relief I would get from it, however temporary, would feel good. Before the shame would come. For me the shame always came.
I hope you did not self-harm. I also hope you did not drink. I know that means you had to face whatever the trigger was without these tools. Maybe you could write some more about what is going on. What is triggering this. I would listen.
akc
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 30, 2001, at 10:59:05
In reply to Re: self harm, should I start again? - zo, posted by Mickey on September 29, 2001, at 23:41:29
Mickey:
I thought it captured it perfectly. Not sure why Zo misinterpretted it.
- K.
Posted by Mickey on September 30, 2001, at 11:37:46
In reply to Re: self harm, should I start again? - zo » Mickey, posted by Krazy Kat on September 30, 2001, at 10:59:05
Posted by dreamer on September 30, 2001, at 21:05:04
In reply to rephrase, s.h. needed 2 clarify point., posted by geekUK on September 29, 2001, at 20:40:52
defy the logic, pleeze.
logic- good name for a new chocolate bar.
Stop anylizing /analysing + one more time anlising
aaahh forget it.rub salt or red chilly peppers into wound for greater effect .
Correct meds needed and are u really honest with doc bout drinking on depoke or whatever it is?dreamer post- self autopsy specialist.
Posted by Krazy Kat on October 1, 2001, at 11:54:05
In reply to Re: chill, posted by dreamer on September 30, 2001, at 21:05:04
> Was this one inadvertantly meant for me??? I have NOT been having wine while on Depakote. How dare you suggest it? And I certainly do NOT tell my pdoc.
A very shamed KK.
(Mighty Mouse has started a trend...)
Posted by Shar on October 2, 2001, at 9:41:49
In reply to self harm, should I start again?, posted by geekUK on September 28, 2001, at 19:48:22
> >Anyway 2 the point. I have kind of substituted drinking for self harm.
G-UK,
Drinking is better than self harm, unless you use it as another form of self-harm such as driving under the influence, getting drunk and doing dangerous things, dancing in the roadway.I was quite a drinker before discovering meds, and I figure it saved my life to have a way to get numb, to get away from the pain.
If you have a choice, drink. No fair doing both, though.
Shar
Posted by geekUK on October 2, 2001, at 18:10:41
In reply to Drinking is better than self harm, posted by Shar on October 2, 2001, at 9:41:49
Not sh yet, been about 1 1/2 years.
but feel the need, has never left. drinking messes up my real life, sh affects my self life.
THanks for reminding me of the guilt and aleination of it.
but I am reminded of the murderous desire for blood from my arch enemy. the sweet revenge. this is the passion that I find unable to channel effectivly anywhere else. The more lost i get the stronger it becomes. perhaps this should be, what do u do when drinking dont cut it any more
MC
Posted by Shar on October 2, 2001, at 22:37:08
In reply to Re: Drinking is better than self harm, posted by geekUK on October 2, 2001, at 18:10:41
If u r backed into a corner, and drinking does not help, and self-harm is appealing, at some point you have to rail against it. If you have refrained for more than a year, you have made and remade the decision not to choose self harm; this is good.
Whatever you choose, it's damn near impossible to get to feeling better all by yourself. Unfortunate as it may be, other people are pretty necessary, in whatever capacity you can stand it.
I prefer the real life consequences of drinking because it is so public. It's not a secret, you and everyone else will know that something is going on there. Self harm is hidden, secret, under the table, behind the back, under a mask, a parasite on your mental health, an ambush. I believe secrets rarely contribute to our well-being.
Shar
> Not sh yet, been about 1 1/2 years.
> but feel the need, has never left. drinking messes up my real life, sh affects my self life.
> THanks for reminding me of the guilt and aleination of it.
> but I am reminded of the murderous desire for blood from my arch enemy. the sweet revenge. this is the passion that I find unable to channel effectivly anywhere else. The more lost i get the stronger it becomes. perhaps this should be, what do u do when drinking dont cut it any more
> MC
Posted by Zo on October 3, 2001, at 16:53:15
In reply to Re: self harm, should I start again? - zo » Mickey, posted by Krazy Kat on September 30, 2001, at 10:59:05
Was it *meant*, then, as poetry? Sorry, for some reason I read it as literal, not as a poem upon addiction.
Perhaps because of your subject line.
A poem is not the recitation and romaticization of your experience, as you probably know. In your subject line you asked us a question. Now I'm not sure which is real.
Zo
Posted by Mickey on October 3, 2001, at 17:38:23
In reply to Re: self harm - Mickey, KrazyKat, posted by Zo on October 3, 2001, at 16:53:15
Zo,
GeekUk was telling us his story about his use of alcohol and the cutting or burning of his flesh. The point I was making was that through my own use of alcohol I did similar things although it was not the literal burning and cutting of the flesh but a more symbolic cutting and burning of the soul and mind. Both leave permanent scar tissue.
There was a time in my younger days when my friends and I romanticized our hard drinking and drug use. We were bad boys. Back then who could have known what it was all about. Now, upon reflection, and many years of therapy, I understand. No, I never cut or burned myself literally, though I have known those that have, but I have never-the-less inflicted deep wounds upon myself.
Mick
Posted by kazoo on October 3, 2001, at 23:06:13
In reply to Drinking is better than self harm, posted by Shar on October 2, 2001, at 9:41:49
Posted by Zo on October 4, 2001, at 1:25:22
In reply to Re: self harm - Zo, posted by Mickey on October 3, 2001, at 17:38:23
Posted by Mickey on October 4, 2001, at 8:16:48
In reply to Whew! -Zo (nm) » Mickey, posted by Zo on October 4, 2001, at 1:25:22
Posted by geekUK on October 4, 2001, at 18:05:29
In reply to Whew! -Zo (nm) » Mickey, posted by Zo on October 4, 2001, at 1:25:22
yup
Posted by Shar on October 4, 2001, at 19:09:37
In reply to Drinking *is* self harm! (nm) » Shar, posted by kazoo on October 3, 2001, at 23:06:13
I am using words that the poster used. Of course drinking is self harm in one sense, in an ideal world, cutting AND drinking to harm oneself would be unheard of. However, here we are in reality, and I believe that drinking is better than cutting or other similar forms of hurting oneself.
Shar
Posted by jay on October 4, 2001, at 20:55:36
In reply to Re: Drinking *is* self harm! Real vs. ideal. » kazoo, posted by Shar on October 4, 2001, at 19:09:37
> I am using words that the poster used. Of course drinking is self harm in one sense, in an ideal world, cutting AND drinking to harm oneself would be unheard of. However, here we are in reality, and I believe that drinking is better than cutting or other similar forms of hurting oneself.
>
> SharYes, Shar, I believe very much in "harm reduction"..ie. going for the 'least' harmless route. It's like using Methadone instead of Heroin.
I just wanted to make another comment. There is *one* poster on here who seems to have no interest in being supportive, and I encourage people to speak up and even mention it to Dr. Bob if somebody is insultive and abusive. This should be a safe environment, if anything, as per the administrative guidelines.
Jay
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