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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mist on May 13, 2001, at 23:42:15
I asked two therapists I saw for depression at different times if they had ever been depressed themselves. Both said no. Is this common for therapists? How can they understand what their clients are going through?
Posted by Michele on May 14, 2001, at 1:30:43
In reply to Have most therapists been depressed themselves?, posted by mist on May 13, 2001, at 23:42:15
> I asked two therapists I saw for depression at different times if they had ever been depressed themselves. Both said no. Is this common for therapists? How can they understand what their clients are going through?
Funny you brought that up. I often wonder that myself.
Posted by stjames on May 14, 2001, at 2:08:24
In reply to Have most therapists been depressed themselves?, posted by mist on May 13, 2001, at 23:42:15
How can they understand what their clients are going through?
I do not think you have to have a condition to treat it. Therapists do generally go through analysis on themselves while in training. Talking to depressives M-F/9 to 5 has to give them some level of understanding.
James
Posted by robinibor on May 14, 2001, at 8:37:54
In reply to Re: Have most therapists been depressed themselves?, posted by stjames on May 14, 2001, at 2:08:24
Some here already know that I take care of my husband's website. Richard O'Connor, author of Undoing Depression and also Active Treatment of Depression, has depression...and is a therapist. He says that gives him a unique perspective. He believes that therapists who have not suffered from depression can treat it, but can never completely understand it. That's one of the reasons he wrote his second book, Active Treatment of Depression, which is written for therapists.
As in the past, I invite you to http://www.undoingdepression.com
We are always interested in feedback, ideas for making the site more helpful.
Robin> How can they understand what their clients are going through?
>
> I do not think you have to have a condition to treat it. Therapists do generally go through analysis on themselves while in training. Talking to depressives M-F/9 to 5 has to give them some level of understanding.
>
> James
Posted by coral on May 14, 2001, at 9:19:05
In reply to Re: Have most therapists been depressed themselves?, posted by robinibor on May 14, 2001, at 8:37:54
Following the implied logic, does that mean an endocrinologist has to have diabetes to effectively treat it? I can see the "ideal" as assuming that someone who has suffered from and conquered a disorder would make a better therapist, but I'm not sure it holds up. Think of schizophrenia or sociopathology.
From my perspective, people who have experienced or are experiencing a disorder can provide sympathy, but not always empathy. In my experience, the worst advice I ever got was from a lay group on anxiety/panic attacks. Every one of them was a sufferer and that colored their advice so heavily that it wasn't of value to me. Let me stress of value to me. I'm sure others have received great help from self-help groups, but in this particular case, it wasn't so for me.
Posted by Alex J on May 14, 2001, at 21:42:32
In reply to Re: Have most therapists been depressed themselves?, posted by coral on May 14, 2001, at 9:19:05
My psychiatrist confided in me last week that he suffers from horrible depressions. This came up when we were discussing whether I should tell family and friends about my own struggles with depression. He advised me to use caution as many of his colleagues (who should know better) have not shown him much compassion.
AJ
Posted by stjames on May 15, 2001, at 0:16:46
In reply to Re: Have most therapists been depressed themselves?, posted by Alex J on May 14, 2001, at 21:42:32
> My psychiatrist confided in me last week that he suffers from horrible depressions. This came up when we were discussing whether I should tell family and friends about my own struggles with depression. He advised me to use caution as many of his colleagues (who should know better) have not shown him much compassion.
james here....
Sadly, from what I read this is very common in the medical profession. Doctors or med. students are not suposed to have depression or mental illness, period. I would suspect more suffer from depression than admit it, for fear of how they would be treated by the medical comunity.
James
Posted by GANDALF on May 15, 2001, at 15:13:19
In reply to Have most therapists been depressed themselves?, posted by mist on May 13, 2001, at 23:42:15
> I asked two therapists I saw for depression at different times if they had ever been depressed themselves. Both said no. Is this common for therapists? How can they understand what their clients are going through?
--------------------------------------------------
For what it's worth, I'm a registered Psychologist ("therapist") and have suffered with 'treatment-resistant' depression for years. I know quite a few colleagues who also have had bouts of depression. I don't think being a depressive *qualifies* me to help clients better than my non-depressed colleagues, but perhaps it does help in terms of empathy?
Posted by Noa on May 15, 2001, at 15:34:59
In reply to Re: Have most therapists been depressed themselves?, posted by GANDALF on May 15, 2001, at 15:13:19
I don't think a therapist has to have experienced the same type of illness to be effective. Effectiveness is independent of that. there are probably plenty of therapists who have been depressed that are not effective, too. I think that to be a good therapist, you probably just need to understand yourself and your own life experiences very well and be open to renewing that understanding all the time. Besides, each patient is so unique, it is important not to go into it assuming you understand what they are feeling.
Posted by Michele on May 15, 2001, at 18:06:19
In reply to Re: Have most therapists been depressed themselves?, posted by Noa on May 15, 2001, at 15:34:59
Intersting post. Altho this isn't exactly what your talking about, but I think it can fit in. I have a BA.... I started out in college for psych.. not knowing really what I wanted to do... but I picked that as my major to try and "figure myself out". Anyway.... I did finish and got my degree.... but never persued the field. I always thoughtthat If I wasn't capable of solving my own problems... how can I help people solve theirs? But for some reason, I do have the capacity to help people.. in my circle of friends, and people at work... I am they one they come to. So maybe I should have persued it. Just thinking out loud.
Posted by Alex J on May 15, 2001, at 18:45:21
In reply to Re: Have most therapists been depressed themselves?, posted by Noa on May 15, 2001, at 15:34:59
Interesting thought Noa. I have felt several times that my psychiatrist was "not really there" during my appointment but was consumed with something else. I now believe that his depressions have probably interfered with my treatment.
AJ
>there are probably plenty of therapists who have been depressed that are not effective, too.
Posted by sar on May 16, 2001, at 21:41:58
In reply to Re: Have most therapists been depressed themselves? » Noa, posted by Alex J on May 15, 2001, at 18:45:21
I've got a psychoanalyst and after I read this thread, I decided the other day to ask her some personal questions--she'd never offered up any personal info about herself & I'd never asked. This last appointment (I've seen her about fifteen times) about her education, whether or not she's married or has children, and whether or not she's ever been depressed. She said she'd respond only to the education question and that she wouldn't tell me anything about her personal life--said that my questions were more importanbt than her answers--"let's explore those questions, what makes you ask them?" Said she does not reveal any of her personal life to patients...I suppose it would shape how I relate to her? I'm wondering what people think of this...I told her that I considered that unusual but because I trust her, I'd accept it.
thanks,
sar
Posted by mist on May 17, 2001, at 0:55:37
In reply to smart or strange?, posted by sar on May 16, 2001, at 21:41:58
I'm not sure about this but I think that wouldn't be too surprising for a psychoanalyst. I've never been to one, but I've heard they don't say very much about anything, just let the client talk.
I've asked other kinds of therapists questions about their lives at times in therapy and usually they've answered freely.
> I've got a psychoanalyst and after I read this thread, I decided the other day to ask her some personal questions--she'd never offered up any personal info about herself & I'd never asked. This last appointment (I've seen her about fifteen times) about her education, whether or not she's married or has children, and whether or not she's ever been depressed. She said she'd respond only to the education question and that she wouldn't tell me anything about her personal life--said that my questions were more importanbt than her answers--"let's explore those questions, what makes you ask them?" Said she does not reveal any of her personal life to patients...I suppose it would shape how I relate to her? I'm wondering what people think of this...I told her that I considered that unusual but because I trust her, I'd accept it.
>
> thanks,
> sar
Posted by mist on May 17, 2001, at 2:18:19
In reply to Re: smart or strange?, posted by mist on May 17, 2001, at 0:55:37
Sar,
By the way, when I was younger I didn’t want to know a lot about my therapist. I felt a pressing need to focus on myself and not be distracted by knowledge about the therapist’s life. I also didn’t want them to take time away from me in the session by talking about themselves.
But gradually it started to bother me that I was telling someone so much about what I thought and felt and I didn’t know even how they were reacting to me as a person. They had the standard therapist responses but I didn’t know who they really were behind the mask. I started to question if I could really trust them, especially after one therapist turned out not to be what I had thought she was all along. It wasn’t anything major, but kind of a wake up call.
I started to not like what I felt to be phoniness in therapists. A false veneer. I wanted to know what was behind it. So I started asking some questions occasionally.
I still feel uncomfortable with the idea of telling so much to a virtual stranger who isn’t entirely open about their reaction to me. It’s one of the reasons I’m not in therapy anymore.
Posted by JennyR on May 17, 2001, at 16:55:54
In reply to Re: Have most therapists been depressed themselves?, posted by robinibor on May 14, 2001, at 8:37:54
I read "Undoing Depression" a number of months back because it was recommended here. It was the most incredible thing I ever read. I was described on every page. It was as though he had known me all my life, every aspect of my personality. You are his wife? - I am pleased to "meet" you. I refer back to that book frequently, there is undelining everywhere, and I made my therapist get it to understand me better.
Posted by mair on May 17, 2001, at 21:45:04
In reply to To Robinibor, posted by JennyR on May 17, 2001, at 16:55:54
>Jenny - this was my experience as well. Mair
Posted by robinibor on May 18, 2001, at 11:09:23
In reply to Re: To Robinibor » JennyR, posted by mair on May 17, 2001, at 21:45:04
Thanks for your kind words. I think the book is really good, too...but maybe I am not able to be completely objective. However, through responses I get from the website and in other ways, I am very aware of how helpful his work is to so many people.
Sometimes I wish he could be my therapist.> >Jenny - this was my experience as well. Mair
Posted by pandora on May 19, 2001, at 0:47:17
In reply to smart or strange?, posted by sar on May 16, 2001, at 21:41:58
> By the way, when I was younger I didn’t want to know a lot about my therapist. I felt a pressing need to focus on myself and not be distracted by knowledge about the therapist’s life. I also didn’t want them to take time away from me in the session by talking about themselves.
Ok, here's one therapist's two cents worth... the above lines actually capture pretty well the reason I don't divulge much of my personal life to clients... in a way, it's unethical to "compare notes" - it would be using the client's time for my own personal gratification (on the benign side) or therapy (on the really unethical side). I have known many in my profession that choose the population they work with based on personal experiences of their own (i.e. the person who works at a women's shelter in part because she was a battered wife herself). It can be detrimental to the therapeutic relationship to bring too much of that out.Empathy is a very important part of good therapy, but taking the focus off the client's problems is not helpful. Basically, a good therapist needs to feel that they can be as objective as possible in order to help their client, and to do this, it is sometimes necessary to draw the line when it comes to personal information.
Hope this makes some sense...
Erin
Posted by pandora on May 19, 2001, at 0:56:02
In reply to Re: Have most therapists been depressed themselves?, posted by GANDALF on May 15, 2001, at 15:13:19
> For what it's worth, I'm a registered Psychologist ("therapist") and have suffered with 'treatment-resistant' depression for years. I know quite a few colleagues who also have had bouts of depression. I don't think being a depressive *qualifies* me to help clients better than my non-depressed colleagues, but perhaps it does help in terms of empathy?
Also, FWIW, a very wise professor in my graduate psych program reminded us all that the similarities in the human experience far outweigh the differences. So many feelings, emotions, fears, and hopes are common to all mankind that, although a therapist may not have "walked a mile in your shoes", chances are, s/he will be able to understand and use his/her professional training to help.
Erin
Posted by Alex J on May 19, 2001, at 1:05:39
In reply to Re: smart or strange?, posted by pandora on May 19, 2001, at 0:47:17
Hi Erin,
I understand and appreciate where you are coming from. I would just like to add that for me, it helped tremendously when my therapist shared his experiences with depression. It helped to make me feel that I was not alone. The focus was still primarily on me and my treatment but his brief moment of sharing gave me a much needed shot in the arm and I came away feeling less ashamed and guilty of my illness.
AJ
Posted by pandora on May 19, 2001, at 1:28:07
In reply to Re: smart or strange? » pandora, posted by Alex J on May 19, 2001, at 1:05:39
AJ,
You bring up a very good point. Depending on the state of mind of the client (not to mention the therapist), sharing commonalities can be helpful for the very reason you mentioned. There are so many different ways to approach this issue and just as many reasons for choosing what to share with clients. I guess I just didn't want to write a book about "How Erin does therapy"!
: )> Hi Erin,
>
> I understand and appreciate where you are coming from. I would just like to add that for me, it helped tremendously when my therapist shared his experiences with depression. It helped to make me feel that I was not alone. The focus was still primarily on me and my treatment but his brief moment of sharing gave me a much needed shot in the arm and I came away feeling less ashamed and guilty of my illness.
>
> AJ
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