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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AMB on March 17, 2013, at 18:30:25
Is it generally a good idea to share feelings of transference with your psychiatrist. Mine is partially romantic in that I am physically attracted to him, yet know that it is a fantasy and not a probability in real life. I am an adult in my 40's and began seeing him when I separated from my husband. He is very caring and supportive and has never crossed any boundaries so if I tell him I'm not afraid he'll do anything inappropriate. What I'm more afraid of is the possibility that he may terminate treatment because of this. I have a mood disorder, abandonment fears and am somewhat dependent on him (More so than my female therapist) so the thought of losing him as a doctor is very distressing to me. To make it more awkward, we have both been on the same dating site, which I think have made my feelings worse. He urged me to join a while back, and then a few months later joined himself. I wanted to bring up how he showed up on my page, but again lost courage. Is there a consensus among psychiatrists that it is generally helpful to discuss these feelings? For me, I think it would bring me out of my fantasy world and back to reality by getting it lout in the open. From there I'd like to think the infatuation would fade and enable me to focus on my real life issues. He is very kind and supportive but I still worry about his possible reaction and that he might be uncomfortable around me after I tell him. Is there an easy way to address this with a psychiatrist? I've brought it up to my female therapist that I see twice a month (in addition to the psychiatrist) but she doesn't seem to want to discuss it. I feel overwhelmed and childish about these feelings but can't seem to stop them...
Posted by baseball55 on March 17, 2013, at 20:31:19
In reply to Transference with psychiatrist, posted by AMB on March 17, 2013, at 18:30:25
Do you also do therapy with him? If not, it may be hard to work through it with him and he might well refer you. If so, any trained therapist can work with transference and work through it, though I warn you that it can take a long time.
I'm surprised your therapist isn't more helpful. If this is troubling you, s/he should help you work through it.
Best wishes. Being on the same dating site is a little weird and scary.
Posted by AMB on March 18, 2013, at 8:56:52
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist, posted by baseball55 on March 17, 2013, at 20:31:19
> Do you also do therapy with him? If not, it may be hard to work through it with him and he might well refer you. If so, any trained therapist can work with transference and work through it, though I warn you that it can take a long time.
>
> I'm surprised your therapist isn't more helpful. If this is troubling you, s/he should help you work through it.
>
> Best wishes. Being on the same dating site is a little weird and scary.Thank you. Yes I see my psychiatrist once per month and I do I guess what you'd call supportive therapy with him. So, we have a good rapport- and I would say I see both he AND my therapist (a female social worker) for therapy. I have shown some slightly dependent/clingy behavior with both in the past, but generally only wanting an extra appointment, and it has happened more often with him the pdoc. I'm careful not cross boundaries and he has therefore obliged me with his time. I agree that my female therapist (who I see about as often as I see him) should be more supportive since in other areas she is fabulous. This may be my fault as I go over these feelings more in my own head than I do in session.
And yes, it is VERY scary and weird seeing my psychiatrist on the dating site. Even weirder that we were matched with each other on this site as we are in the same demographic (age range, kids the same age, interests, etc...). There have been some unsaid things between us - he knows I know something, I know he knows something, etc...he'll allude to to dating (when we're talking about my romantic life) but never comes out and says he's talking about himself. Out of respect for boundaries I don't ask.
The last psychiatrist I bonded with I saw from age 11-22 and then she moved. I was dependent on her as well but more in motherly way, so I was devestated once our relationship ended. I've seen others off and on since but never have been consistent. This pscyhiatrist is the first I've connected with and been compliant in treatment with. The thought of not seeing him as my pdoc anymore makes me so anxious that I continue to ignore and obsess over this. If he handles it right then I think I may be able to move past it. I would think these feelings for my pdoc would not be a shock to him, but then you never really know how someone will react to this kind of info. He is very good looking so I'm sure he's had plenty of clients attracted to him, but I'm not sure he's ever had to deal this directly. Is it common for a psychiatrist, and not a therapist, to address this issue? I like seeing a pdoc who will work with me personally as well as a therapist, since I don't think a psychiatrist can truly treat a patient as well if they don't have some sort of connection.
Posted by AMB on March 18, 2013, at 10:34:50
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist, posted by AMB on March 18, 2013, at 8:56:52
Oh and I am curious too about something else. When does behavior become "clingy" in the eyes of a provider? I am so inhibited and aware of these things that normally I am not. But there have been about 3 times in 5 years where I've called my pdoc's office in tears and wanting an appointment. HE's managed to fit me in when this has happened so I am careful not to abuse it. Is this normal behavior, or would this be considered demanding?
Posted by baseball55 on March 18, 2013, at 19:30:54
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist, posted by AMB on March 18, 2013, at 10:34:50
If he's a skilled therapist, you should be able to talk to him about this. It's not clingy to call him if you need him unless he objects that you call too much. I saw a p-doc for eight years for therapy and developed such intense transference that I couldn't help but talk about it because just seeing him would make me cry. It wasn't romantic though. It was more like I wanted him to be my father. I think a romantic transference would be more painful and hard to discuss, but it's good to discuss it. You need to get it out in the open with both him and your female therapist, so it's not eating you up inside.
Like I said, any skilled therapist (including p-docs) is trained to expect and deal with this with compassion and empathy while maintaining reasonable boundaries.
I also saw two therapists for a few years -- him and a female DBT therapist. It helped a lot to talk to her about it, because I felt like talking to him about it just made me feel more dependent on him. Therapy can be intense.
Well, you've done it before, so you know.
Posted by AMB on March 19, 2013, at 7:17:33
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist, posted by baseball55 on March 18, 2013, at 19:30:54
> If he's a skilled therapist, you should be able to talk to him about this. It's not clingy to call him if you need him unless he objects that you call too much. I saw a p-doc for eight years for therapy and developed such intense transference that I couldn't help but talk about it because just seeing him would make me cry. It wasn't romantic though. It was more like I wanted him to be my father. I think a romantic transference would be more painful and hard to discuss, but it's good to discuss it. You need to get it out in the open with both him and your female therapist, so it's not eating you up inside.
>
> Like I said, any skilled therapist (including p-docs) is trained to expect and deal with this with compassion and empathy while maintaining reasonable boundaries.
>
> I also saw two therapists for a few years -- him and a female DBT therapist. It helped a lot to talk to her about it, because I felt like talking to him about it just made me feel more dependent on him. Therapy can be intense.
>
> Well, you've done it before, so you know.Thank you baseball55 for your support...
I see him with a DBT therapist as well, and I find it is helpful to have both. Initially I was quieter with him, not sharing as much but over the last year have become much more open and comfortable sharing with him - except this. It did seem to coincide with my discovery of him on the dating site. Since we had this unspoken thing in common, and he was the one who encouraged me to join the site, we would talk about my experiences sometimes and how to tweak my profile. There was attraction but he also felt like an ally, we had this secret personal detail in common. And I really wouldn't want a relationship as I know it would only turn out badly and actually weird in a way. I think it's a combo of a family-brotherly feeling, though the thought of him dating makes me jealous. So it is a wierd combo of both. I never told my femail therapist I saw him online out of respect for his privacy, but I imagine if he's online it's not a real secret and I shouldn't worry. But I am obsessed and until recently would check his online profile, whether or not he was online could indicate if he was dating or not. So instead of being jealous of a wife, I'm obsessing about him out flirting or dating other women that could be me. A very unusual situation I suspect. I was devasted with the loss of my childhood pdoc and have been unable to bond with one again until now. So I am afraid I'll lose him too. But you are right in that keeping it inside is tearing me up. And as an adult with children, it is hampering me from staying focused on the important things in my life (I am a parent and my ex is trying to work things out). The only escape from this fantasy is getting it out in the open with him. He is kind and supportive in personality, but can be a little too direct (not necessarily skilled in therapy) though I like that about him and it usually is a good thing. But this is different and with my dependent personality issues, that can make all the difference in how it's handled. I certainly wont tell him I check up on him online, that would be weird for him I'm sure, but the rest I do imagine he could handle. I just lack the courage!
Posted by baseball55 on March 19, 2013, at 19:18:03
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist » baseball55, posted by AMB on March 19, 2013, at 7:17:33
I think you should tell him you check him on-line. Especially if he's on a dating site he encouraged you to join. That's a little weird. Checking people on-line is almost second nature now. People who do therapy and don't want patients checking them on line shouldn't be on dating sites and facebook. Neither of my therapists have accessible facebook accounts (believe me, I've checked). I asked my DBT therapist what town she lived in (I'm in Boston) and she didn't want to tell me and I said, all I have to do is check whitepages.com.
It's not really cyber-stalking. This has just become the new normal. I google everyone. Therapists need to take this for granted.
I would tell him about this dating site. Maybe you should cancel your membership so you don't keep checking on him and driving yourself crazy. Transference drives people nuts as it is. Talk to your DBT therapist about this as well. I found that talking to my p-doc about how I felt about my p-doc got kind on solipsistic and it was helpful to have an outside perspective and advice.
Posted by AMB on March 19, 2013, at 22:03:40
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist, posted by baseball55 on March 19, 2013, at 19:18:03
> I think you should tell him you check him on-line. Especially if he's on a dating site he encouraged you to join. That's a little weird. Checking people on-line is almost second nature now. People who do therapy and don't want patients checking them on line shouldn't be on dating sites and facebook. Neither of my therapists have accessible facebook accounts (believe me, I've checked). I asked my DBT therapist what town she lived in (I'm in Boston) and she didn't want to tell me and I said, all I have to
> It's not really cyber-stalking. This has just become the new normal. I google everyone. Therapists need to take this for granted.
>
> I would tell him about this dating site. Maybe you should cancel your membership so you don't keep checking on him
and driving yourself crazy. Transference drives people nuts
as it is. Talk to your DBT therapist about this as well. I found
that talking to my p-doc about how I felt about my p-doc got
kind on solipsistic and it was helpful to have an outside
perspective and advice.I thought it was really weird myself that he joined the site knowing I'd be there and was aware I've looked at it ( the site shows who checks you out) , so I guess I can take that as he is not overly concerned This and most likely only shared what he felt comfortable with me, and everyone else he may know online, with knowing. He has no other public pages online but this is the hardest. I really think that he may be a little dense in the area of transference, even in this context. In session once he even made an analogy of my husband's misinterpretation of my confusion regarding getting back together to his dating life. He said "it's like when you have sex on the third date and then they think it's a relationship, You never said it's a relationship, but they believe what they want to believe". I was kind of like, uh ok....I point but an odd choice I thought, as I know he's dating so it was clearly relating his own experience. Maybe with all this he wont be too taken aback, he's not uptight at all. And thank you- I did take your advice and deleted my account, it is only making me crazier by the moment. If my dbt therapist would work through this with me too it would give me a place to safely talk. They work in the same group practice so I was reluctant, but I guess it's something I don't need to worry about. It overwhelms me to the point now where I can't stop feeling severely depressed to the point of desperation...I just want these feelings to stop... it's so unhealthy. I feel like I need his help, but don't want him to be uncomfortable with or mad at me.
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2013, at 8:37:55
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist, posted by AMB on March 19, 2013, at 22:03:40
> He said "it's like when you have sex on the third date and then they think it's a relationship, You never said it's a relationship, but they believe what they want to believe".
First, I agree with baseball55 about being entirely honest with your therapist, and with your DBT therapist as well. Some of the best work I did with my therapist came from discussing my feelings about the therapy relationship itself. You wouldn't think it, but it really does have an effect on the relationships outside therapy as well.
But didn't the above statement change your feelings about him? It's kind of insensitive and implies that he gets into bed with women knowing that the realities of the relationship might hurt them, but without clarifying those realities sufficiently to allow them to make a valid choice.
My therapist has made statements from time to time that have definitely lessened my idealization of him. Not precisely that statement, but statements of a similar level of... disillusioning.
In some ways I wish he hadn't. But in other ways I recognize the value of seeing him not only with the flaws I see *in* therapy, but also the flaws in his own nature.
Posted by AMB on March 20, 2013, at 9:36:04
> > He said "it's like when you have sex on the third date and then they think it's a relationship, You never said it's a relationship, but they believe what they want to believe".
>
> First, I agree with baseball55 about being entirely honest with your therapist, and with your DBT therapist as well. Some of the best work I did with my therapist came from discussing my feelings about the therapy relationship itself. You wouldn't think it, but it really does have an effect on the relationships outside therapy as well.
>
> But didn't the above statement change your feelings about him? It's kind of insensitive and implies that he gets into bed with women knowing that the realities of the relationship might hurt them, but without clarifying those realities sufficiently to allow them to make a valid choice.
>
> My therapist has made statements from time to time that have definitely lessened my idealization of him. Not precisely that statement, but statements of a similar level of... disillusioning.
>
> In some ways I wish he hadn't. But in other ways I recognize the value of seeing him not only with the flaws I see *in* therapy, but also the flaws in his own nature.
Yes in a way it did change, though didn't lessen my feelings for him (as maybe they should have). Since seeing him on the site he is more an attractive man to me and less as the idealized pdoc, and that's what's made it so much harder- it seems so REAL. I think many in his profession will hide their pictures on any social sites. In fact, a couple of professional men who had asked me out kept their pics hidden for this very reason. I think it's hard for most patients to know this info about their pdoc/therapist, isn't it? I know he likes beer and wine, he plays hockey, does yoga, has kids the same ages as mine, has similar views on politics, etc...In all fairness to him, I just don't think he thought it would affect me. He pushed me to do it, so he must've known I'd see him on the site- we are the exact same demographic. And he may have expected me to say something a year ago when it first came up, and since I didn't, assumes it's not an issue for me. The comment about sex was weird. Not really inappropriate, but weird. It made me see him as a typical newly single guy. He could have been my friend or brother talking to me instead of my doctor. And to my rational side, yes it confirmed that he's a bit insenstive in that regard and is all wrong for me. But my dysfunctional side of me still wants to be someone he's attracted to or just care about. I feel very childish and just want him to like me. I do believe that us talking it out would help to squash the fantasy, but as you can tell by your quoted comment, he tends to put his foot in his mouth. I wonder if talking to my dbt therapist and asking her to somehow bring it up with him first is a possiblity? I don't know how that would work though. I'm just afraid if I catch him off guard he'll say something that in his mind is just being honest but to me will do more harm than good...I tend to put up with insensitive behavior from men, and idealize them for a long time. So I will not be easily dissilusioned in the sense that I'll like him less...
Posted by baseball55 on March 20, 2013, at 19:41:20
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist » AMB, posted by Dinah on March 20, 2013, at 8:37:55
> > He said "it's like when you have sex on the third date and then they think it's a relationship, You never said it's a relationship, but they believe what they want to believe".
This and the dating site make me feel like his boundaries are pretty loose and his technique not very well-developed. Transference is painful enough with a skilled therapist. He doesn't sound skilled. Maybe you should look for someone else. I understand it will be painful to leave him, but it won't be as painful as you think. You will recover. It's not like ending an actual romantic relationship. Also, is seeing a male therapist the best thing for you? Or would you be more comfortable with a woman?
Posted by AMB on March 20, 2013, at 23:36:05
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist, posted by baseball55 on March 20, 2013, at 19:41:20
> > > He said "it's like when you have sex on the third date and then they think it's a relationship, You never said it's a relationship, but they believe what they want to believe".
> This and the dating site make me feel like his boundaries are pretty loose and his technique not very well-developed. Transference is painful enough with a skilled therapist. He doesn't sound skilled. Maybe you should look for someone else. I understand it will be painful to leave him, but it won't be as painful as you think. You will recover. It's not like ending an actual romantic relationship. Also, is seeing a male therapist the best thing for you? Or would you be more comfortable with a woman?I do see a woman for therapy primarily (DBT). He insisted I see her as I had started cutting again. So he does not do regular therapy sessions. He is primarily med management and what I would call supportive therapy. I began seeing him when my husband moved out a few years back. You are correct in that he is not terribly skilled in actual therapy, he has been helpful especially with the meds. I have a mood/personality disorder and treatment resistant depression, and he is very skilled in med management and tweaking things to get just the right fit. He is very supportive and patient. Looking back he may have discouraged me from reconciling with my husband a litle too much, and I may put too much weight on his opinion. I think his own divorce experience affected the advice he was giving to me. But being able to sit in the office of a man that I would normally be tongue tied with is a huge improvement for me. That in itself is one of the best things about seeing him- it's at least helped the social phobia and I feel safe. I've always had social phobia with men and tended to let them walk all over me and have trouble connecting emotionally with them. For the first time I felt like I finally had a man in my life, even if only my doctor, who was genuinely concerned abut my feelings and cared about where my life was going. So I guess it was inevitable that these feelings would develop. I am afraid if I leave him, I will stop going all together. It took me 20 years to find a pdoc I connected with after my last one moved...I am dependent on my female therapist too, but not like with him. I wonder if he senses my adoration...he must, right? It probably boosts his ego quite a bit.
Posted by Twinleaf on March 21, 2013, at 8:01:31
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist, posted by AMB on March 20, 2013, at 23:36:05
Sometimes, wonderful things and not-so-great things seem to be mixed together. As you described it, you are getting a connected feeling, and growing in your ability to interact comfortably with an attractive man, both of which will help you tremendously in your personal life. It does sound as though he is not too good on boundary issues, but you have demonstrated that you have good judgement, and can make good decisions, in those areas. As long as you can continue to do that when needed, I'd say the positives in this relationship far outweigh the negatives...
Posted by AMB on March 21, 2013, at 10:37:14
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist, posted by Twinleaf on March 21, 2013, at 8:01:31
> Sometimes, wonderful things and not-so-great things seem to be mixed together. As you described it, you are getting a connected feeling, and growing in your ability to interact comfortably with an attractive man, both of which will help you tremendously in your personal life. It does sound as though he is not too good on boundary issues, but you have demonstrated that you have good judgement, and can make good decisions, in those areas. As long as you can continue to do that when needed, I'd say the positives in this relationship far outweigh the negatives...
I lean toward the same opinion. It's funny how I have interpreted things, as I for some reason see him as having had very strict boundaries and have been afraid to talk to him about my feelings because of this. I was afraid he would be freaked out and terminate me as a patient (I don't have a basis for this fear, he's never said that. It' just a fear). Given that his boundaries are probably looser than I thought, do you think he probably won't be as shocked as I have been fearing? I would not discuss it in hopes that he'll ask me out, not at all. I just think having it out in the open will take the burden off of me, and will put an end to the infatuation. I know no one really knows how he'll react, it's just great to see this from a different perspective. When baseball55, Dinah and Twinleaf all have a similar perspective, then I'd say it's more accurate than mine.
Posted by Dinah on March 21, 2013, at 16:40:45
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist, posted by AMB on March 21, 2013, at 10:37:14
Well, not necessarily. I know that many people have a picture of my therapist that isn't necessarily accurate or complete. Because what I post here is filtered through my lens. I often post when I'm angry, for example.
It certainly is worth a thought when many people with a detached vantage point have similar thoughts. It may even be worth a great number of thoughts. But recognize that we only know your therapist through your eyes, at this point in time. A relationship is far more than that. Other peoples' thoughts are just one item you should weigh in coming to a conclusion.
However, honesty in therapy is nearly always a better choice. Keeping things from a therapist is like keeping things from a doctor. It's in your own best interest for them to have an accurate picture.
If he responds in an unprofessional manner or seems overly gratified on a personal level, run don't walk to the nearest exit.
But I'm hoping he responds in a more mature and professional manner than that one isolated quote might suggest.
Posted by Twinleaf on March 21, 2013, at 16:43:22
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist, posted by AMB on March 21, 2013, at 10:37:14
I would be a little worried that, not being trained as a therapist, he wouldn't know how to handle your feelings about him in a constructive fashion. Can you enlist your therapist in helping you explore this area - maybe working these feelings out through talking with her, rather than with him? If she knows how important it is, she might become more interested.
Posted by baseball55 on March 21, 2013, at 19:11:35
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist, posted by AMB on March 20, 2013, at 23:36:05
I wonder if he senses my adoration...he must, right? It probably boosts his ego quite a bit.
If he's a sensitive therapist, then he of course senses your adoration. If he's a skilled therapist, this would not boost his ego at all, since he would see this as a common reaction and problem to be worked through.
Posted by AMB on March 21, 2013, at 19:53:11
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist » AMB, posted by Dinah on March 21, 2013, at 16:40:45
I think I will talk about it with my therapist first. What he said was insensitive, but it doesnt define who he is as a doctor (maybe as a guy though). But now I know that I need to be careful about what I choose to discuss with him and when. I'm so anxious about how he'll react because I know his therapy skills are not the best, and I really can't predict what he'll say. My therapist will be the best place to start. I was afraid it was rude of me to talk about his being on a singles site since they are in the same practice...but he probably could care less about a co worker knowing if he doesnt even try to hide it from his patients.
Posted by Twinleaf on March 22, 2013, at 13:51:21
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist, posted by AMB on March 21, 2013, at 19:53:11
Sounds like a good plan - let us know what happens.
Posted by AMB on March 22, 2013, at 16:03:18
In reply to Re: Transference with psychiatrist, posted by Twinleaf on March 22, 2013, at 13:51:21
> Sounds like a good plan - let us know what happens.
I will and thanks all for the kind and supportive posts
This is the end of the thread.
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