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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by onceupon on October 1, 2009, at 1:00:52
Jealousy, longing, fear.
So tonight I finally (oh, 2 1/2 years in) asked my therapist how many clients she sees a week. The answer was bigger than I was hoping for (i.e., more than one). What prompted this? The usual - wanting to be special, wanting to know where I stand, and cetera. Of course, questions in my mind about all of her other clients started sprouting in my mind the second she told me the answer.
And herein lies the divide. My rational self knows, well duh, of course she sees clients other than me. I've even seen them on occasion in the waiting area. The other ones. But my emotional self wants to put my fingers in my ears and shout, "La, la, la, la, la, I can't hear you!" Even though I asked her in the first place. Sheesh.
I've read enough other people on babble to know that the jealousy that crops up for me is not out of the ordinary. And yet, it's so freaking hard to be confronted with the reality of it all. (There was a yet another part of me doing mental gymnastics to figure out what her number means in terms of salary!)
I don't have any kind of grand epiphany in this post. Heck, I'd settle for a central point. The longing (of the maternal variety) that I have toward my therapist is just kind of a constant in my life now. But damn, I wish it weren't. I still wish it weren't. There are days when I'm okay with it. I had a lovely experience with my therapist last week (the details of which I'm reluctant to post for the sake of paranoia - what if she's reading this?! As if...). Anyways, it was a bright point of loveliness in the middle of what has felt like angsty, angst-ridden angst vis-a-vis our relationship.
And the fear, well, my other constant companion is fear that she finds me just plain foolish. Like she can't wait to get home after we meet to laugh with her husband about her foolish client who does foolish things, foolishly. (Sorry about the silly language - am feeling a little punchy at the moment.) I have not yet admitted to her my desire to feel special. Or at least I don't think I have. There have been a couple of topics I've brought up with much trepidation, and she's been all, "You told me that a long time ago." We've talked *a lot* about our relationship - can't seem to escape it - but I've been reluctant to raise that particular topic.
The fear is also, I now realize, that she has maybe helped me to the extent that she can. Yipes. It's freaky to say that out loud. I can anticipate a lot of her responses, though not all of them. I'm not a mind reader, yet. I'm not sure how well equipped (training wise) she is to deal with this transference-based whatever that I feel like I've been floundering in forever. She hasn't done anything *wrong* at all. And in fact has done a lot of things right. I don't know how long she sees her clients on average (guess that's my next question), but I get the vibe that I've been there longer than most. There seems to be a flatness to our sessions, often. Though to be fair, I'm not sure if that's because I still feel extremely anxious, often, when talking with her.
The trigger is this - I've swung in and out of depression for what feels like forever. I recently just weaned myself off of the antidepressant I'd been taking, in part because I ran out, and in part to see if I could. I'm starting to get the feeling that I can't. But I'm feeling too damned stubborn to start it back up again, especially so soon after stopping (it's been maybe a month). But the images of death are starting to creep back in around the edges. The idea of rest (through death) is getting more and more appealing. And I *know* that's depression talking. And at the same time, it just feels like good old me. The same me that has thought about suicide off and on since I was 12. Good lord, that makes it 20 years. I'm hurting. Ouch. I told my therapist (finally) that I've been struggling, though I always manage to take the edge off when I'm talking with her.
Looks like I've failed in making a point. So I'll just leave it here, with no point. Thanks for reading, if you have. Appreciate it.
Posted by Dinah on October 1, 2009, at 17:56:36
In reply to an emotional trifecta - some triggers - long!, posted by onceupon on October 1, 2009, at 1:00:52
I've weaned myself off meds sometimes to see if I can live without them. Some meds I can live without, some I really do need to keep taking. The risk is that they might not work as well after you've been off them. The meds board posters probably know more about that aspect.
What do you think would happen if you did bring it up? My therapist and I had a lot of painful, and meaningful and special, sessions discussing my need to be special to him. I know I've made a lot of posts about it over the years. It's embarrassing, but it's nothing they can't handle. Depending on your therapist she may or may not say the perfect thing, but it's not what she says that really matters. It's through hashing these things out over and over again that growth happens. Darn growth.
Why don't you take a chance and close your eyes and say the worst? Or read your post? I think I brought my posts in about wanting to be a Jessica to my therapist. It was so hard in the beginning, but it does get easier. For me that spot of longing was so mixed with shame before I discussed it with him. But now it's like the shame has been removed, and while the longing still remains, it doesn't feel the same at all.
Posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2009, at 18:59:19
In reply to Re: an emotional trifecta - some triggers - long! » onceupon, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2009, at 17:56:36
Very true what Dinah said about the meds might not work again. Might want to post this separate issue on meds board just a thought Phillipa
Posted by Daisym on October 2, 2009, at 0:52:28
In reply to an emotional trifecta - some triggers - long!, posted by onceupon on October 1, 2009, at 1:00:52
As I've posted many times, most of what you wrote is an ongoing struggle for me too. But it sounds like your therapist is up to this challenge, as she has been to the others you've worked through together. Think about the fact that she answered your question - that means she trusts that you can handle it and knows that this is an important issue for you.
My therapist tells me in many different ways that he *is* MY therapist. It might not be exclusive but he is totally with ME during sessions. And he also frequently tells me that it is OK to want to be special - who doesn't? And the length of time we've spent working together does contribute to being special - think about what you know and the little jokes you've shared. These are the things that make people special to each other.
Suicidal thoughts are a good warning that your depression is increasing. If you were a diabetic and your blood sugar was high, you would take your insulin. So try to get over the idea that there is anything shameful in needed medication to balance your chemistry.
Sometimes I start these really hard conversations with, "there is a post on the board (I don't say the name of the board)about wanting to feel special in therapy. It made me think about how I felt last week when we had a really deep, good session. And yet as good as that felt, I worry about how stupid all this sounds and that you probably hear it 100 times a week." Or something like that.
It feels like a million years ago, but I remember when I told my therapist I had loving feelings for him. And I said most of what I said above. He told me that it wasn't stupid and that it wasn't that common that 1) people felt deep loving feelings and 2) that they were brave enough to admit and talk about them. Since then we've had many feelings about my need to feel special and all the ramifications of that.
None of this is easy. I wish I could tell you the answer. What I do know is that the more I struggle against it, the worse I feel. I hope you find a way to distract yourself.
Posted by onceupon on October 2, 2009, at 4:22:14
In reply to Re: an emotional trifecta - some triggers - long! » onceupon, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2009, at 17:56:36
Thanks for your thoughts on the meds. I'll have to find my way over to the meds board to talk about it more.
I ended up bringing up my wish to be special in an email (in the middle of a few other things). I wrote it late at night, when I was feeling less defended, and probably kind of loopy. I do a lot of writing at late hours :) I essentially stated my wish and added that, though I wish for it, I feel really strongly that I'm not at all special.
My therapist wrote me back, and pulled out my belief about not being special. She said she found it curious. I wrote back some punchy drivel about feeling like a curiosity over my lunch hour, but didn't really have time to say much. I try to keep my emailing with her to a minimum, and close most emails with some mention that I'll see her next week, I think with the hope that she won't feel obligated to write me back. She has been very encouraging about the email, though, which *is* one thing I treasure about her. Getting past my inner critic that asks why the hell she would want *more* contact from me is another story.So, coming back from that tangent, she responded again with a more specific question about what I've observed in our interactions that would lead me to the belief that I'm not special to her. It's a valid question, clearly. I want to go back to your posts about being a Jessica; I remember them, kind of, and think they do a nice job of describing the quality of specialness I'm looking for. I believe on one level that I'm special to her, in the sense that she is compassionate enough to find something special about each of her clients. But of course I'm wanting something more, or at least something different, from that.
Darn growth, indeed :) My therapist does point out that I seem to keep taking risks with her, in terms of opening myself up to vulnerability, and therefore connection. I think I struggle because I sometimes see it, or want to see it, as akin to tearing off a bandaid. I just want to get it over with. I try to tell myself, over and over again that it's a process, this learning how to be vulnerable and open and connected. Sometimes it helps. Others not so much.
I found what you wrote really helpful, especially this:
"For me that spot of longing was so mixed with shame before I discussed it with him. But now it's like the shame has been removed, and while the longing still remains, it doesn't feel the same at all."
I keep trying to remind myself that perhaps if I approach it enough I can some day move through the shame.
Thanks, Dinah
Posted by onceupon on October 2, 2009, at 4:23:11
In reply to Re: an emotional trifecta - some triggers - long!, posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2009, at 18:59:19
Thanks, Phillipa. I haven't posted on the meds board in years, and sometimes get kind of intimidated going over there. But I'll think more on it.
Posted by onceupon on October 2, 2009, at 4:34:24
In reply to Re: an emotional trifecta - some triggers - long! » onceupon, posted by Daisym on October 2, 2009, at 0:52:28
Thanks so much for your response, Daisy. I wish I could provide more support to you. Have been finding myself triggered, and therefore avoidant, in response to some of your posts. I appreciate that you're willing to share how our struggles have overlapped.
You make a good point that the fact that my therapist answered my question is meaningful. It's been on my mind for a long time, and I ended up just slipping it in when she was talking about scheduling.
I like how your therapist communicates to you that he is *your* therapist. And what you said about the little things that make people special to each other. Sometimes I get so tied up in thinking that I'm just plain not special in the first place, and that, given everything else she has going on in her life, there is no way that I could be special to her specifically.
I do know that, for me, suicidal thoughts indicate increasing depression. I think I've gotten over most of the shame in needed medication; there are other factors around this for me at the moment (e.g., no pdoc, new job with pretty inflexible hours to go see someone, concerns about feeling emotionally blunted on the meds, etc.).
I like your suggestion about acknowledging the good sessions, while also talking about the worry. It feels more balanced to me. Sometimes I worry that I must seem like an ingrate (!) and I've been working to communicate my genuine gratitude more often. It's hard to feel like I keep coming back with the same "negative" stuff.Lately I've been trying to figure out whether I have loving feelings for my therapist. If they're there, I haven't quite found them. It feels as if they should be though, and I wonder if I can't find them because I'm just generally having a hard time accessing *any* loving feelings right now. This might seem like a silly question, but I'm curious what your loving feelings toward your therapist feel like. Is there any way to describe them?
Thanks so much for your post.
Posted by obsidian on October 2, 2009, at 21:12:18
In reply to an emotional trifecta - some triggers - long!, posted by onceupon on October 1, 2009, at 1:00:52
I hope she can indeed handle the transference exploration thing. It sounds very important, and very anxiety provoking. I mean you probably can't put it out of your head right? so it might always be in the background of what you're talking about...
I hope you can find a way to talk about it. an opener or something?...
Posted by obsidian on October 2, 2009, at 21:14:10
In reply to Re: an emotional trifecta - some triggers - long! » onceupon, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2009, at 17:56:36
oh yes, the shame can be awful :-(
I seem to be afraid that I'll get hit or something, emotionally, physically or both if I am vulnerable about something like that
Posted by onceupon on October 3, 2009, at 13:42:32
In reply to Re: an emotional trifecta - some triggers - long! » onceupon, posted by obsidian on October 2, 2009, at 21:12:18
Yeah, that's totally it. I can't get it out of my mind and it's feels hard to talk about anything else meaningful when it's back there.
I emailed my therapist about it, so we'll see what comes up next week.
This is the end of the thread.
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