![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 34. Go back in thread:
Posted by fleeting flutterby on September 10, 2009, at 13:20:28
In reply to How would I describe my therapist, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2009, at 9:36:41
> I hope he doesn't turn the question around, because I don't think I'd want to answer that honestly any more than he wants to answer mine honestly.
>
> I guess that we all tell part of the truth, but not all of the truth, about these things. In kindness and charity.
>
> But...
>
> If you don't hear all of the truth from your own therapist, how do you ever know the truth enough to change?<<---flutterby: I think, outside of the progress that your T. thinks you are making.... it shouldn't matter what he/she "thinks" of you. Not in depth, anyway. Couldn't this be like playing with fire?.... to get so personal?... (I could be misunderstanding, if I am please tell me, it seems I often misunderstand things.... don't believe I think like most people do... )
It could perhaps be more important to answer-- "why do I care so much what my therapist thinks of me?".... just, something to ponder......best to you,
flutterby
Posted by annierose on September 10, 2009, at 14:14:19
In reply to What does my therapist think of me., posted by Dinah on September 10, 2009, at 9:11:22
I think it's a fair question to ask and a fair question for your therapist not to answer. I have asked a similar question - over and over in different ways from different angles. Sometimes my t will answer in a very diluted form, and often she will say "you know how I feel about you," ... to which I reply, "remind me again." And then other times she will say, "I have told you what I think about you and I would tell you again, but you don't want to believe it's true. It's too scary for you to believe that someone doesn't see you in the way in which you see yourself."
So what I guess I'm saying, it's always a worthwhile question that leads me down different paths depending upon what else is going on in my therapy.
It's okay to want to know. I have asked her, "I want to know what you would tell your husband about me." That question, she doesn't answer.
Posted by Nadezda on September 10, 2009, at 15:13:37
In reply to What does my therapist think of me., posted by Dinah on September 10, 2009, at 9:11:22
Could it be simply that there wasn't time to answer?
It may not be that he had anything per se that he couldn't say-- but that he thought it was simply a longer discussion-- or that he wanted, as he normally would, to ask you what you thought, and go through what you describe as the usual conversation.
But what are you looking for? What would you like him to say; or what are you afraid he would say? or how do you imagine the conversation going, if it went how you most want it to go.
When you ask how someone sees you, it's usually for a reason. Either something's on your mind, or there's some issue, really. Because if you think about it, you know what's important about how he feels about you; and people have such diffuse and complex and contradictory feelings about others that, at some point, they feel almost everything-- And then, even if certain characteristics that strike him most-- what would it mean to you?
That you were that way? that he was wrong (or right)?
It is a loaded question-- and that's probably why he didn't answer-- unless, of course, you had a particular reason for thinking he really was covering up something?
Nadezda
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2009, at 17:27:11
In reply to Re: How would I describe my therapist » Dinah, posted by fleeting flutterby on September 10, 2009, at 13:20:28
I don't mean it in a personal sense. In context, it was because he was asking me to describe my parents in just a few words, and I find it difficult to describe anyone I know well in just a few words. I asked what words he would use for me. It wasn't until he seemed unwilling to answer that I thought about it.
Then more recently he mentioned something that he thought about me, that I hadn't known. That brought back my memories of the prior conversation.
It's probably nothing I haven't heard before in one context or another. But putting it together gives me a picture of myself from the outside. If he were really willing to do it honestly, it might lead to some pain and arguments, but I think it would be helpful in a therapeutic sense.
Because how we see ourselves, and how others see us are sometimes not all that close. Some of our best therapy moments have come from his pointing out that how I saw something about myself is not really how others see the same quality.
It's unlikely he'd be willing to be that honest though. My therapist walks a fine line between acceptance and change, and over the years the tilt has definitely been to acceptance. Which can be good in some ways, but not so good in others.
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2009, at 17:31:57
In reply to Re: What does my therapist think of me. » Dinah, posted by annierose on September 10, 2009, at 14:14:19
> I think it's a fair question to ask and a fair question for your therapist not to answer.
I love that!!!
It's exactly how he'll see it. If he sees it as anything but that, I'd be enormously surprised.
> So what I guess I'm saying, it's always a worthwhile question that leads me down different paths depending upon what else is going on in my therapy.
True enough, and perhaps the meaningful question (or at least the question that's more likely to be answered) is why it's important for me to ask it right now. Is it because I am feeling confident in his caring for me that I am wanting to know what he *thinks* rather than *feels*?
> It's okay to want to know. I have asked her, "I want to know what you would tell your husband about me." That question, she doesn't answer.
Whoah. I don't think I want to think that my therapist tells his wife anything about me. Although I've referred to it myself, since I'm the nutty patient who tracked him down during Katrina.
I prefer to think that his worlds don't collide.
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2009, at 17:47:14
In reply to Re: What does my therapist think of me., posted by Nadezda on September 10, 2009, at 15:13:37
I can't remember his precise words, but the tone was very definitely that he did not want to get in a fight immediately before session end. Which admittedly was not unlikely had he answered.
I suppose the reason why the memory got brought up again right now is a couple of remarks he made recently. In one conversation, he told me with no hesitation at all and with obvious conviction that he thought I was definitely a person of honor. In another conversation, I was complaining that my deportment was too young to go well with middle age, and that once I turned fifty I was going to look ridiculous. He didn't disagree. He said I'd just look "more schizotypal".
I suppose I didn't think he thought that it was that obvious that this additional factor would just make me appear "more" so.
The two together made me realize that after nearly fifteen years, I know he cares about me a lot, but I don't know what he thinks of me. I don't really know how he conceives of my mental health issues, or their severity. He *knows* me. That I can tell. But what is it that he knows?
I suppose I've heard it in bits and pieces. But it's all so mixed up with his attempts to make me feel better about myself, or his attempts to normalize, or at the opposite extreme, when he is focusing on some narrow aspect. It's hard to get the big picture of the forest when mostly we concentrate on trees.
It's very confusing really. Sometimes he seems to waaaay overvalue me. Then other times, he seems to think that I am one good stressor away from total meltdown.
Posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2009, at 12:40:22
In reply to Re: What does my therapist think of me. » Nadezda, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2009, at 17:47:14
Dinah one word popped out to me what did he mean by looking more skitzotypical after 50 mean? What dose that mean you'll look like? To me it means that you will be exactly the same as you are now however that is. I see you through words as a caring compassionate, hard working lady. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on September 11, 2009, at 19:04:00
In reply to Re: What does my therapist think of me. » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2009, at 12:40:22
It might be hard to explain. I don't act like a grownup, and the older I get, the odder that looks.
Posted by Dinah on September 11, 2009, at 19:37:34
In reply to What does my therapist think of me., posted by Dinah on September 10, 2009, at 9:11:22
I was totally right. And yet because I was right, I ended up being wrong. I can't remember the last time I laughed so much in therapy.
I asked him if he'd be willing to be totally honest with me, and he answered with appropriate caution. I told him what Annierose said, and he really liked it too.
When I asked the question, he immediately did what I said he would. He asked me how I would describe myself. :) I answered like Linus saying "That's it!!!" to Charlie Brown, and am surprised he didn't roll over backwards in true cartoon style. I said "I KNEW IT. I said you'd say that!" and laughed. He was confused so I explained then asked if he wanted to know what would happen next. So I told him about how I would cross my arms and sulk, and he laughed, and wanted to know why it was important to me that I not answer first. I told him he'd cheat, and base his answer on what I said. And that he often framed his answers so as to not damage my self esteem, which he appears to believe is fragile. He laughed and said that wasn't the reason, he just liked me, and so saw positive things in me. I said I knew he liked me, and that was why I was willing for him to be totally honest about how he feels about me.
So he agreed to do it first. He said that the exercise was to use five words to describe my parents, so he'd use five words to describe me. I whispered sotto voce that he probably would need to put at least one negative thing in there if he wanted me to believe him. He fooled around with a pad and pencil and came up with five.
1) Intelligent.
2) Compassionate. He explained that one, so I didn't feel like I needed to correct him.
3) Compulsive. About good and bad things.
4) Idiosyncratic. Or aspergerish or schizotypal. He says he's begun to think aspergerish may be more accurate than schizotypal. I said I preferred quirky, and he made a note of that - literally. (Thank you Tabitha for that view of myself. I like it.)
5) Anxious.
Then.... He asked how I would describe him in five words! I said "I *knew* it!!! I knew you'd ask that!"
Then....
I did manage to be completely honest. Which floored me really. I didn't do five words so much as shorthand for five verbal pictures I drew of him. None of them were all good or all bad, they were mixed blessings, and I mentioned aspects of each. I even repeated the humorous but not really flattering things I say about him sometimes, and he wasn't at all upset and even seemed to enjoy them.
He looked.... Well, he looked like I imagine I look when he makes me feel seen and understood and still accepted. He looked surprised that knew so much about him, and intrigued at the way I phrased things (because I do phrase things oddly), and he said I was absolutely right, and mentioned a bit on why he saw himself similarly.
He said because I knew him, I knew how the session would go, exactly. And I said that clearly I didn't. Because it initially went that way, but then I talked about stuff instead of doing stuff. I asked him if that wasn't much better, and he answered that it was at least a lot more fun. :))
Then I asked about his clinical opinion of me, and why he thought I needed therapy. He mentioned pretty much the same things. That I definitely had OCD, and anxiety, and that I had a tendency to get depressed and manic (well, hypomanic). And dissociative traits. And that whole asperger/schizotypal/quirky thing. That it wasn't any one big thing, but a lot of smaller things added together. He said he thought therapy kept me as stable as I was likely to be. (Ok, I might be rephrasing that a bit. But the idea was the same.)
Sooo.....
Because I talked about it here first, and thought about how the session would go, the session both went that way and then turned in directions I could have never anticipated and wouldn't have dared to dream of. I found out what I wanted to know. And I had fun. And I think he had fun too.
And I know fun isn't the goal of therapy. Goodness knows we don't have it all that often. But if truth can come packaged in fun, isn't that so much the better?
Posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2009, at 20:48:47
In reply to That was so much fun!, posted by Dinah on September 11, 2009, at 19:37:34
Dinah glad it was fun. Still don't picture you the way you say you are. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on September 11, 2009, at 21:07:02
In reply to Re: That was so much fun! » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2009, at 20:48:47
Why not?
You mean the acting young part? Or being a bit odd?
Posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2009, at 21:28:20
In reply to Re: That was so much fun!, posted by Dinah on September 11, 2009, at 21:07:02
being odd acting young is fun. I'm Peter Pan don't want to grow up. Phillipa
Posted by workinprogress on September 12, 2009, at 1:08:00
In reply to That was so much fun!, posted by Dinah on September 11, 2009, at 19:37:34
Dinah-
I'm so glad for you. And, thank you for putting a smile on my face... what a wonderful story. It's a story of learning, surprises, honesty, and an incredible relationship. Quite simply... lovely!
Congratulations on having fun... it may not be the point, but it's certainly not like no work was done...
And that fun was hard earned, because of your relationship and shared intimacy. Enjoy, relish it!
Posted by Dinah on September 12, 2009, at 9:40:15
In reply to Re: That was so much fun! » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2009, at 21:28:20
Well, I didn't say being odd or acting young was a bad thing. :)
It just leads to some interpersonal issues.
Posted by Dinah on September 12, 2009, at 9:50:49
In reply to Re: That was so much fun! » Dinah, posted by workinprogress on September 12, 2009, at 1:08:00
Thank you!!!
You have reassured me. I was worried I hadn't conveyed the spirit well, because I've been working at the office lately, and yesterday I was so tired that I felt ill. It takes a lot out of me to work there, although I don't really understand why.
Most of what he said about me was clinical rather than personal. But it was the way it was communicated that was so special. And I'll never forget the look in his eyes, at some of what I said about him... I wonder if that's what it's like to be a therapist?
I suppose I wanted to communicate how different a session can be if we, the client, notice a pattern and comment on it instead of reenacting it. I'm sure it's would add an interesting session now and then to therapy in general, not just my therapy with my therapist. Although it's admittedly easier because I am confident in his positive regard.
It is *so* weird to say that. I look back at my posts and realize how very short a period of time it has been that I can say that. It's been a long hard struggle.
My session might not have been *bad* had I not told him how I would react to what he said, and implied that I'd rather just say it than go through that entire process. But it wouldn't have been fabulous either. I think I often expect him to take the lead in making these changes. But if I do, I will miss out on so many things.
Posted by Dinah on September 12, 2009, at 11:12:48
In reply to Re: That was so much fun! » workinprogress, posted by Dinah on September 12, 2009, at 9:50:49
Arrested.... The word I was looking for was arrested.
A moment of stillness, a flash of what appeared to be wonder.
Though upon further reflection, it may have merely been surprise at the fact that even in silence about himself, he has managed to say so much.
For those professionals among is, is that what it feels like? If you feel comfortable saying.
Posted by onceupon on September 12, 2009, at 14:30:04
In reply to Re: That was so much fun! » Dinah, posted by workinprogress on September 12, 2009, at 1:08:00
I smiled when I read this too, Dinah :) What a lovely session.
Posted by annierose on September 12, 2009, at 20:46:56
In reply to A question..., posted by Dinah on September 12, 2009, at 11:12:48
I'm glad it was a special session to relish. You need to keep this session in mind, and close to your heart.
Posted by Dinah on September 12, 2009, at 22:00:20
In reply to Re: That was so much fun!, posted by onceupon on September 12, 2009, at 14:30:04
Posted by Dinah on September 12, 2009, at 22:02:32
In reply to Re: A question..., posted by annierose on September 12, 2009, at 20:46:56
I think I will.
And if I can somehow incorporate it into my way of thinking about myself, that would be even better.
Posted by annierose on September 12, 2009, at 22:32:40
In reply to Re: A question... » annierose, posted by Dinah on September 12, 2009, at 22:02:32
Yes, that's the R E A L L Y hard part but ultimately more healing.
Sometimes therapy answers my questions and opens my insight into my self-awareness ... but changing the harsh internal wiring ... that seems impossible.
Posted by Dinah on September 15, 2009, at 12:03:42
In reply to Re: A question... » annierose, posted by Dinah on September 12, 2009, at 22:02:32
An anticlimactic session.
Today was a bit below par. My therapist admitted that he was feeling bored, as I told him my own ideas about DSM improvements. I hadn't really prepared for the session, and didn't have anything on my mind. And his efforts to guide me to something more interesting were... uninteresting and repetitive. He always wants to ask me how I'm getting along with my mother. Since we're both avoiding each other right now, there's just not that much to talk about.
I asked him if bad sessions regularly follow great ones, because I thought last session was terrific. He admitted that he had thought of our last session this morning as he saw I was scheduled today, and he thought it was a great one too. Because I took the initiative, he said. And I acknowledged.
Still....
I have to say there's some improvement to talking together about what a flat session it was than racking my brains to think of something to say.
This talking about what is going on in the room can be a nice change from what's going on in the room.
Posted by Dinah on September 15, 2009, at 12:04:56
In reply to Followed of course by...., posted by Dinah on September 15, 2009, at 12:03:42
Don't they say that observing a phenomenon changes it?
Posted by seldomseen on September 16, 2009, at 16:22:59
In reply to That was so much fun!, posted by Dinah on September 11, 2009, at 19:37:34
After discussing the recent violent events, my therapist and I did the same thing today.
I approached him about it and said, "let's play a game" I then laid out the rules of the 5 words. He was very receptive to the idea.
I first told him my words for him. He seemed satisfied.
His words for me were:
Intelligent - how that had saved me from my life and family.
Spirited - no one could have endured what I did and come out of it if they didn't have a strong spirit. It's infectious he says.
Fearful - And how that used to be my dominant characteristic. It's less now he said, but still up there.
Appreciative - Of nature, the arts literature, blah blah blah, but he said "You get it" the meaning of it.
Sexual - This one rather took me by surprise. I suspected that he might sometimes experience me in that way, but I never thought he would come out and say it.
All in all it was a lot of fun, he even said he really enjoyed playing games. I suggested that because of my latent sexuality that perhaps Twister was out of the question. We did laugh a lot.
I did leave a lot at his doorstep and am so much lighter now than when I went in.
Seldom.
Posted by Dinah on September 16, 2009, at 17:26:04
In reply to Re: That was so much fun! » Dinah, posted by seldomseen on September 16, 2009, at 16:22:59
:)
I'm glad you did that, and managed to have some fun in your session as well. I didn't find myself overly surprised by anything my therapist said. Other than sexual, were you surprised?
By the way, that is a very nice list. It's a good way to see yourself, don't you think?
I've been wracking my brain trying to think of other exercises to do, or ways to shake things up, but I haven't come up with anything.
I'm down to thinking I might do his stupid egg assignment for next week, since I'm not seeing him Friday because he has a doctor's appointment.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.