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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 17:38:54
I always say that, and it almost always means "I'm afraid you'll forget to call me back, or I'll wait anxiously for you to call me back, or I'll get angry with you waiting for you to call back."
But for the most part, I really do want him to call me back.
I did it yesterday, and he returned my call this morning. I was berating myself yesterday that of course he wouldn't call back if I gave him an out. He did call back, but I wonder if he would have called back any earlier if I had asked him to return my call. I think not, actually, which means I'd just as well continue on as I am, so that I won't get angry with him.
I did talk to him about it once. I pointed out that he always tells me to call, but when I do he doesn't call back, or he calls back and sounds like he wants to get off the phone. He insisted he really did want me to call if I needed him. I think we finally compromised on this. He wants to want me to call if I need him. He really does mean it at the time, and he means it in general. But in practice, it is frequently difficult for him to find the time to return my call.
:/
Posted by jane d on January 28, 2009, at 18:04:31
In reply to You don't need to call me back, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 17:38:54
I usually say that too when I leave messages for either therapist or psychiatrist. I always mean it when I say it but I often regret it bitterly afterwards because they always take me at my word and don't call back. To be fair they always have called back when I've asked them to. I guess I think that telling them when they don't need to call back is my half of an unspoken bargain or a reward to them for calling back the rest of the time. Or maybe a magical incantation?
Do you think that therapists responds differently to different clients? I'm inclined to think that the difference is in the therapist - some call back everyone and some call back no one - but I don't really know.
jane
Posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 18:12:27
In reply to Re: You don't need to call me back, posted by jane d on January 28, 2009, at 18:04:31
My therapist is immensely scattered in general. He's much much much much much better about calling me back now. When I first started going to him, he'd forget to call me or called me for just a minute or two, even when we arranged it in advance.
So I'm pretty sure it's him in general. In fact, given that I told him there was no need to call me back, it was pretty good of him to call. He knew I was upset when I left. But I don't think he would have called back any sooner if I had asked him to call.
He did seem relaxed and willing to spend time talking to me. I guess there's that payoff. Had he called yesterday he'd have been rushed and impatient. Still, there's nothing worse than that period of time where I'm waiting for a call. Overall, I think I'd prefer rushed and sooner.
(I was asleep when he called and unable to cover the fact. I'd been up earlier I swear! I and my pup went back to lie down after taking my morning meds and drifted off.)
Posted by antigua3 on January 28, 2009, at 18:29:54
In reply to You don't need to call me back, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 17:38:54
It's funny to me, but I think they should know (or have learned through training) that we want or need, desperately in my case at times, to call us back, no matter what we say.
My pdoc rarely calls back, even when I've asked him to, or it takes him so long to call that my intense need is often gone altogether and I feel foolish for having intruded on his ever so busy schedule. (can you tell I'm angry at him?)
I'm sorry that you suffered waiting. I'd rather suffer the wait for a decent phone call over the quick and cursory, which is what I tend to get since he feels everything important should take place face to face. A good concept in theory, maybe, but it often fails miserably in practice.
antigua
Posted by jane d on January 28, 2009, at 18:33:11
In reply to Re: You don't need to call me back » jane d, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 18:12:27
That time waiting for call back is horrible. I think that's one reason I often say I don't want a callback.
>
> (I was asleep when he called and unable to cover the fact. I'd been up earlier I swear! I and my pup went back to lie down after taking my morning meds and drifted off.)Don't you hate that? If I'm asleep when therapist calls I'll automatically deny it or try to cover it up. But I'm perfectly willing to admit that I sleep all the time if I'm asked during a session. I guess if feels a bit like you've been caught with no clothes on or something.
It's all the pup's fault!
Posted by sharon7 on January 28, 2009, at 18:50:52
In reply to You don't need to call me back, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 17:38:54
lol. you crack me up, Dinah. i love reading your post. you are a great story teller and I really love hearing about the very special relationship you have with your therapist. I'm glad you have him. You must be getting what you need to have stayed with him this long. If I ever go back to my T (im being dramatic.. of course I will! but she's going to have to BEG me to come back. and I'll say "I'll think about it.." LOL!!! Yeah, like that'd ever happen! but I digress.) I was gonna say I need to ask her kinda hypothetically speaking, "what if I still wanted to come see you all the way up until you retire?" Might as well find out what I'm up against as far as the dreaded T word.
About the calling. My T has never told me I can call her. In the year and a half I've been seeing her, I think I've had to break down and call her 3 or 4 times but I was really having a crisis. She called me back. I knew she would. She's very dependable and professional. But she seemed short with me and I didn't like that. I was apologizing profusesly, and her job was to be saying "it's okay that you called me Sharon.." or better still "I'm GLAD you called me!" LOL! I don't have her email address either and I would love to have it, but she's never offered and I won't risk the rejection of asking her for it only to be denied. i've not had a need to call my pdoc yet, but I have no doubt he'd return my call if I called. (o:
Posted by seldomseen on January 28, 2009, at 19:28:09
In reply to You don't need to call me back, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 17:38:54
Yeah, this directly relates to my therapy visit today as well.
My therapist is not good over the phone. Although he never failed to call me back when I did call, I've stopped calling because it just doesn't work for me. He sounds rushed, and defensive and not like himself at all. It usually makes the situation worse.
The infamous "suck it up" comment was made by him - you guessed it - over the phone.
So I was describing my crash over the weekend and he indicated surprise over the fact that I didn't call him.
To which I replied - "oh, I'm sure that would have made your day - to have a suicidal patient call on a saturday morning, and besides, what could you have done?" He stammered around a bit, didn't say much of anything consequential.
He did manage to say that he wasn't concerned that I would commit suicide (you know I really can't - my pets would eat me I'm sure, and then, after they devoured my corpse, who would take care of them?), but his primary concern was how badly I felt and he wanted to know. And I did feel plenty bad. I think he also felt bad that I would choose not to include him on the badness, until 5 days later, during regular business hours, at a time when I knew I would have his full attention.
Hmmm.... I think my therapist realized he wants me to want to call him too, but when faced with the reality of it, maybe *not* so hot about the actually calling. In fact, by the end of the session he was gesturing towards his phone indicating that a voice mail reaching out after business hours would be okay too.
Ah therapy.
Seldom.
Posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 23:12:38
In reply to Re: You don't need to call me back » Dinah, posted by antigua3 on January 28, 2009, at 18:29:54
He should at least know I want him to call back anyway, since I've admitted it often enough. :) He usually doesn't call back unless I ask him to. But sometimes when I leave really upset he will.
I guess overall I'd rather he call when he isn't rushed, if I know when that will be. It's the not knowing that gets to me. I'm afraid to go anywhere for fear of missing his call.
Ah well. I guess we have to put up with their less charming qualities.
But it annoys me that I seem to still be playing a game with him on this issue.
Posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 23:15:28
In reply to Re: You don't need to call me back » Dinah, posted by jane d on January 28, 2009, at 18:33:11
That's my favorite time of day really. Cuddling with my baby in the morning, when I'm half awake and totally aware of the pleasures of warm blankets and five extra minutes of sleep. Except that sometimes I actually do fall asleep. :)
Posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 23:45:20
In reply to Re: You don't need to call me back, posted by sharon7 on January 28, 2009, at 18:50:52
Well, you've got to keep something of a sense of humor about any long term relationship I think. :)
But we really do negotiate things like that. So do I and my husband. My relationships with both are characterized by a great deal of honesty and opennness and a degree of negotiation and compromise worthy of the UN. It must be hilarious to listen to us negotiate a statement we can both endorse.
Posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 23:55:12
In reply to Re: You don't need to call me back » Dinah, posted by seldomseen on January 28, 2009, at 19:28:09
You know, I think I prefer it when they're honest about it. Those not so subtle little clues they give out by being really not very good on the phone upset me way worse than the truth. Now I know what to expect and when I actually do want to call him.
I think mine is better on the phone now in part because he knows what it is that I want. But when he sounds rushed or impatient it really upsets me. At least he knows that no matter where he is, he has to say "Everything will be ok" in that deep confident tone.
Although I bit his head off for saying that yesterday after he told me he'd be out of town for over a week. I told him it wasn't his call rather everything would be ok while he was gone.
I'm a difficult client sometimes.
Posted by raisinb on January 29, 2009, at 13:48:24
In reply to You don't need to call me back, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 17:38:54
I think you have a right to be a little angry and defensive about this issue with him. Whatever their personal schedules or foibles, they should be heaping reams of joyful encouragement on us when we actually take that leap to reach out to them.
Mine and I have had a good deal of trouble on the phone in the past, but I don't think it's the phone's fault. It's just the same issues we have in person. But I am afraid of it, so I haven't called since July, however much she urges me to.
But now I wish I had because now I can't. Oh well.
Posted by Looney Tunes on January 29, 2009, at 22:46:47
In reply to You don't need to call me back, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 17:38:54
I am a bit confused...So in theory, he offers you the availability to call as needed....but he can't really provide the service cause he does not have the time?
Hmm....Do you feel you can't count on him? What if it was something serious?
Posted by DAisym on January 29, 2009, at 23:43:53
In reply to You don't need to call me back, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 17:38:54
It is so hard to ask for what we really want. My therapist has said to me before, "it is really hard for me to judge if you mean it or not sometimes, and I don't want to disrupt you by calling if you really don't want me to. So it would be so helpful to me if you could try and tell me what you need." So I try to be honest with him. We also have a code for when I can't ask for what i need - I only have to say, "I'm in trouble" and he knows it means, call back ASAP.
I think I'm in the minority here as my therapist is really good on the phone most of the time. This makes it easier to ask him to call.
Lately we've been using email too, a little bit. Writing is easier for me, but the return emails are usually short. I like that he always signs his name though. :)
Posted by Dinah on January 30, 2009, at 0:55:05
In reply to Re: You don't need to call me back, posted by Looney Tunes on January 29, 2009, at 22:46:47
It depends on what you'd mean by count on him. There have been times when it wasn't feasible to count on him, such as when we were both dealing with Katrina fallout.
Other than that, then yes, my therapist does tend to offer more than he can realistically deliver. But he does mean it at the moment, and he does care. Well, he really does mean it all the time. But realistically, if I call when he has a full day, and is cramming return calls between sessions or while he's hurriedly eating lunch or with his family, he's going to sound rushed and harried because he *is* rushed and harried.
The spirit is willing but the time management is weak. Or something like that.
But he does his very best to be there for me.
Posted by Dinah on January 30, 2009, at 1:02:45
In reply to Re: You don't need to call me back, posted by DAisym on January 29, 2009, at 23:43:53
First name (or whatever he generally is known to you by) or full name? I hate it when my therapist signs with his full name. Like I have all that many acquaintances of his name who would be sending me emails from his email address.
It's just as well he hates email, since I hate getting it from him.
I can't recall whether I've spoken with him about my strategy not to be totally honest with him. I think we may end up agreeing it's best to continue doing that. But I'd like to make sure I'm honest with him.
I'm almost always honest with him. I haven't mentioned his personal grooming during sessions. But that's merely a lie of omission. :)
(I really envy you. Even though my therapist makes an effort to be better over the phone, and is, I don't think he'll ever actually be good over the phone.)
Posted by Dinah on January 31, 2009, at 9:10:10
In reply to Re: You don't need to call me back » antigua3, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2009, at 23:12:38
> But it annoys me that I seem to still be playing a game with him on this issue.
Either I talked to him about it before, or he'd figured it out on his own, but he knows I do this. He's ok with my continuing to do it if it helps me feel better. But reminded me that if I really really urgently want to hear from him, to tell him so. Because while he knows that my "you don't need to call" often adds "but I sure wish you would", he doesn't always know when.
Posted by Looney Tunes on January 31, 2009, at 13:32:12
In reply to Gameplaying » Dinah, posted by Dinah on January 31, 2009, at 9:10:10
I am still confused....and I am not trying to come across as insulting ...but I truly don't get it.
Why call if you don't want a callback?
Do you mean call and listen to T's message?
Or actually leave a message? ....and NOT want a callback.Because I don't get the no-callback thing.
I have never said "call me back" or "don't call me back." I just assume if I am calling, I need T to call me. (which mind you, I call probably once every week)
I may not even talk to T, I just want T to answer my questions and leave a message that I can hear.
But in state of emergency (2 times), I need T to talk to me.So, I think this would be VERY confusing....and hurtful if T did not call back. (unless you were calling him 20 times a day)
Posted by sunnydays on January 31, 2009, at 13:53:09
In reply to Re: Gameplaying, posted by Looney Tunes on January 31, 2009, at 13:32:12
I have called many times just because I wanted to feel closer to my T or because I wanted to let him know something or follow up on a topic we had been talking about in session. I just have always said please call me or don't call me. I mean it when I say don't call me (although I still always wish he would call me anyway), but I say it so that I won't have to wait around anxiously hoping the phone will ring any second if it's not an emergency. And so that he doesn't have to waste his time calling me if I really feel I don't need him to call me, I just want him to know something. He's fine with this, as I only do it occasionally, and understands that I do it as a way to feel connected and to feel like someone knows what's going on with me.
sunnydays
Posted by Dinah on January 31, 2009, at 17:28:26
In reply to Re: Gameplaying » Looney Tunes, posted by sunnydays on January 31, 2009, at 13:53:09
I have missed you, and it is wonderful to see you here.
How have you been doing?
Posted by Dinah on January 31, 2009, at 17:44:15
In reply to Re: Gameplaying, posted by Looney Tunes on January 31, 2009, at 13:32:12
I think Sunny said it well.
I really don't call him that often anymore. But this past week I happened to call him twice. Once I was totally losing it and had he not picked up, I'd have asked him to call. And hope he would do it quickly.
The second time was to apologize, because I thought I had maybe annoyed him or upset him during the session, and I was obsessing about it. Clearly I was still upset, and clearly I could have used some reassurance so I could let go of that portion of being upset. But I didn't absolutely need him to call back, and waiting for him would have just made me more upset. Then I'd have likely gotten annoyed with him, and the cycle would have continued.
Instead, I was able to put it behind me, he called the next morning when he had some time free, not only told me he had been upset not angry, but spent a few moments talking to me about problem solving the situation that had had me upset. And while I was perhaps a teensy bit annoyed he hadn't called the previous day, it was well counterbalanced by the fact that he did return my call and actually was willing to talk longer than I'd expected. And he was happy because he was able to call me, at a time that was convenient to him and without worrying about me.
So that's just two examples of "counting really's" as Michael and Stephanie used to say on Newhart. The first time I really really really needed to talk to him. On the second time, there were a lot less really's.
Another example would be when I want to inform him of something, or just touch base. He really wouldn't need to call me those times. In fact, I might prefer to leave a message and not even have him pick up the phone.
I think it depends on the therapist. My therapist is ok with all those types of calls. Some wouldn't be.
Posted by DAisym on January 31, 2009, at 22:09:04
In reply to Re: You don't need to call me back » DAisym, posted by Dinah on January 30, 2009, at 1:02:45
He signs his emails with his first name. Usually it is "take care, (name)"
I sometimes wish there was another way to sign off. One of my friends uses "carinos" - which I love. It is a toughy, putting "love" or "fondly" in writing.
Maybe someday I'll send a cyber hug. Now *that* would probably be something to talk about!
This is the end of the thread.
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