![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 14:58:57
I envy people who believe that they receive great benefit from therapy...
And I envy those who feel more whole by their faith, and those who see something attractive when they look in the mirror, and those who are so certain that their political beliefs will improve the world, and those who lay down their heads and easily slip off to sleep at night, and those who don't need medication to stay out of the hospital, and those who make a comfortable amount of money, and those whose intelligence is apparent to others, and those who look forward to going to work every day, and those who don't blush or hate themselves when they make a mistake, and those who glide through life with ease and grace, and those who are responsible for having wonderful families and friends, and those who possess the courage to attempt things I find terrifying.
Posted by antigua3 on December 8, 2008, at 15:14:33
In reply to Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 14:58:57
Me too.
antigua
Posted by rskontos on December 8, 2008, at 15:19:35
In reply to Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 14:58:57
>I envy people who believe that they receive great benefit from therapy..>
Well Toph,
I won't say I think I get great benefit, but today's session was a good one. I went in saying I had nothing to say and then talked his ear off. I asked a lot of questions which he answered well. He is a good analyst. He is good for me. He is good with my kind of ills.
He answered me forthright and upfront. I like that. I felt comfortable enough to say what he had been doing that worried me and caused me anxiety.so for now, therapy is ok. Now that might change quickly since I usually can't hold that feeling long.
As for the rest of your post, well I envy those others traits in people too. For I rarely possess those traits. I make zip money, my husband makes it. I change my political beliefs often, I think I look tired in the mirror, I lost my faith recently, I question my own intelligence, I disclose too much sometimes and cringe, and I rarely glide through anything. My family is good except for me, and I like to stay home away from people so much for courage.
So might I ask what brought this up?
A bad day, week or month? Or all the above.
rsk
Posted by muffled on December 8, 2008, at 15:51:53
In reply to Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 14:58:57
> I envy people who believe that they receive great benefit from therapy...
*I dunno, I have improved, but its taken a VERY VERY long time to achieve what I have....
> And I envy those who feel more whole by their faith, and those who see something attractive when they look in the mirror,*I'm kinda creepy looking and getting very fat. But I think my smile can be OK, not cuz I like it, but sometimes I will look someone in the eye and smile, and its just a wonderful thing. Happened this morning. He was a street person, and what a wonderful smile he had :-), I think maybe he thot mine was OK too.
I dunno what it is bout my faith, but somehow its there....>and those who are so certain that their political beliefs will improve the world, and those who lay down their heads and easily slip off to sleep at night, and those who don't need medication to stay out of the hospital,
*I too scattered to follow politics, sides, it just makes me nuts cuz they do stupid things as far as I know. I sleep well, I am thankful for that. I could sleep 12 hrs if I could. I have been on meds, and they did help. Currently I am fortunate to get by w/only xanax.
>and those who make a comfortable amount of money, and those whose intelligence is apparent to others,
*some days, I am dumb as a stump. Today I had NO clue, I mean NO clue at all where my sister had parked her car, as I was going to put parcels in it. She had to come with me to show me.
Other days, I astonish myself with my seeming intelligence....if only it would stay...
My H fortunately works. We are not rich, but I don't need much money. We certainly have all we need and then some really.>and those who look forward to going to work every day,
*one of the reasons I don't work, makes me anxious. However I will need to geta job probably next year...
>and those who don't blush or hate themselves when they make a mistake, and those who glide through life with ease and grace, and those who are responsible for having wonderful families and friends, and those who possess the courage to attempt things I find terrifying.
*I don't think ANYbody has all these things. I think all have some struggles. Some SEEM to have less, but one never knows...
I count myself in amongst the hugely blessed.
Which while wonderful, makes me wonder WTF my problem is, cuz with all my very many blessings, I should be able to do far better than I am...
Toph, you have written some amazing posts that I have read.
So obviously you can be kind.
You do have that to offer others.
I bet your face transforms when you smile.
And not knowing you, I don't know what other possibilities there might be.
It sounds very tough for you.
For that I am sorry.
I send you safe hugs if you would like them
(((Toph)))
M
Posted by Wittgensteinz on December 8, 2008, at 16:29:48
In reply to Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 14:58:57
I have to say "yes" and "no" - I do envy some of those people you listed. But if I try to imagine a world void of those people, it would be one miserable uninspiring place.
There will always be those doing better than me - living their lives fuller, happier - probably quite a fair bit happier (!) but in a way I also thrive off a sense of competition and inspiration. Sometimes I get the greatest joy out of the simplest silliest unexpected things.
I wonder whether you've ever met a person who has all those qualities you listed - sometimes I find myself idealising others and the envy sets in. Perhaps if you knew them from the inside out (or could sit one day in their skin) you might be surprised that they have their own set of problems and vulnerabilities. We are all mortal beings - vulnerable to illness and loss. Life throws us each a different set of cards. Very few are given a 'full house'.
Hmm... but sometimes it does suck, all the same :)
I'm sorry you feel this way.
Witti
Posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 17:22:03
In reply to Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 14:58:57
I appreciate those who responded to my post. I don't know if I should be here, my psychiatrist is really just a pharmacist after all. But it seems so supportive here, non-contentious, nice. The kind of place safe to write a self-depreciating vent. You speak of work in treatment. Pretty much all of life is work for me.
Posted by zenhussy on December 8, 2008, at 17:27:04
In reply to Re: Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 17:22:03
Posted by llurpsienoodle on December 8, 2008, at 17:31:58
In reply to Re: Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 17:22:03
Toph,
The hardest thing for me is to see myself as others see me. To climb out of my own introspective house of mirrors. Therapy helps me with that. So do my significant relationships, and satisfying work.It's hard sometimes, though. I have envy too. I'm hoping that you're not hurting too bad.
Blushing is not a bad thing at all. I bet you are a very nice blusher.
I'm very very happy to see you back on these vanilla pages, and I hope you can find a little piece of peace (i.e. quantum of solace) among us.
-Ll
Posted by Dinah on December 8, 2008, at 18:02:41
In reply to Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 14:58:57
You know it's funny. I've met you, and I've talked with you, and the two parts of that list I know you well enough to judge, I'd say you have. I remember you as attractive, and your intelligence seems evident to me. I guess interior and exterior views don't always match.
Do you mean envy like in the dictionary definition?
1: painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another joined with a desire to possess the same advantage
That sounds so painful. I'm sorry that you carry that pain, if I'm not projecting my own experience of emotions onto you.
I'm trying to decide if I feel envy. Surely I must. There are areas where I'm very unhappy, and plenty of areas where I hate myself. I wish I were more attractive. I hate my looks. But I don't think I associate other people's attractiveness with my lack of attractiveness. Their looks have nothing more to do with me than a sunset or a painting.
I had a couple of friends growing up who had families like Leave it to Beaver. I wished my family was like that, but I enjoyed visiting their life like I enjoyed watching The Brady Bunch. It was no more real than that.
Sometimes I wish I were as optimistic and sanguine as my therapist. But lots of times I don't. Good grief, can you imagine?
Maybe I'm way too detached from others and maybe from myself to actually feel envy. What others have seems so remote that it doesn't have any relationship to what I don't have.
It doesn't mean I don't feel self loathing. It just doesn't seem to have anything to do with anyone else.
Now I feel a bit weird.
Although maybe I'm just blocking those feelings. I really don't like strong negative feelings. They make my head hurt.
I do feel guilty though, when I think of all I do have. I feel like I have no reason at all to be unhappy. Like I'm an unhappiness fraud.
Posted by rskontos on December 8, 2008, at 18:30:22
In reply to Re: Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 17:22:03
Toph,
Your therapy can have whatever aspects you deem necessary.
Come and be here and we will support you ever how we can.
I am glad you are here.
rsk
Posted by lucie lu on December 8, 2008, at 19:31:30
In reply to Re: Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 17:22:03
Toph,
I'm glad you feel safe and comfortable expressing your feelings, self-deprecation or otherwise, here. That was quite a list. I surely would not want to meet anyone who possessed all or even most of those qualities, they would scare the daylights out of me. I nearly always feel that I've been helped in therapy, but jeez, after 6 years if I didn't feel that way... As for the other items on your list, sometimes I can actually aspire to a few. But not this week. Zip. Nada. So I'll join you in your envy and amazement if you'll just move right over so I can sit next to you.
Lucie
Posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 19:36:45
In reply to Re: Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 17:22:03
I even screw up leaving. My BP is controlled well by medication. I am so fortunate, imagine that, lucky for that. But I have terminal dysthymia. I'm not a mope though. I am as arrogant, opinionated, vain, selfish, letcherous, infantile, and mean as the rest. I just have this relentless sadness from some huge loss or injury that I can't remember ever suffering. I was a painfully sensitive boy who became a painfully neurotic adult. Everyone tells me I'm special but I have made it my life's purpose to make liars of them all. I share Dinah's guilt for I don't deserve to feel this way. Most of us here who like to associate with those similarly afflicted would be surprised at how normal we appear in real life. But I suppose we would be hard pressed to trade our demons for fear that others would have pain worse than our own.
Posted by Sigismund on December 8, 2008, at 20:02:11
In reply to Re: Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 19:36:45
Envy is an interesting emotion.
Perhaps Melanie Klein meant to oppose envy to gratitude in her book of that name.
If gratitude is heaven, perhaps envy is hell.
It has this way of hollowing you out so you feel a terrible lightness.
Perhaps this is what my T meant when she talked so often of me 'emptying things out'?
Posted by Sigismund on December 8, 2008, at 20:10:03
In reply to Re: Envy, posted by Sigismund on December 8, 2008, at 20:02:11
Blushing:
Why does that happen?
Not just because we have made a mistake.
Is it because we perceive that we have been involved in an imposture (whatever that is)?
I'm pretty vacant anyway, but it is odd that I cannot recall one instance of why I blushed?
Is it like humour, something difficult to explain?
Posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 23:31:55
In reply to Re: Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 19:36:45
I'll end this pity party before the day ends (though it must be nice Sig to post something and see it appear yesterday). I think the problem with self-doubt is that it makes us a bit schizoid. We are excessively aware of ourselves in our self-criticism in a way that contented people seem spared (though conceited people must just love their own company in their own nutty way). I don't know, despite the best efforts of seemly competent therapists, I remain more weak, flawed and unhappy than I'd like to be. And I envy anyone who can live most of their life happily looking outward unburdened by the hypervigilance of an captious inner eye.
Posted by softheprairie on December 9, 2008, at 2:16:28
In reply to Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 14:58:57
Toph,
I very much identify with your first post of this thread.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on December 9, 2008, at 10:46:27
In reply to Re: Envy » Toph, posted by softheprairie on December 9, 2008, at 2:16:28
Oh, sweetie: No one really goes / glides through life with ease and grace. We just hide stuff.
I like what Mother Theresa said once...that "always assume when you meet someone, that they are struggling and going through hard times.....because they are."
Love, Sassy
Posted by Phillipa on December 9, 2008, at 13:08:00
In reply to Envy, posted by Toph on December 8, 2008, at 14:58:57
Top just saw this I feel the same way haven't read any of the other posts so no idea what others have said but do feel like you. Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.