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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 41. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JayMac on November 22, 2008, at 12:31:16
Should I tell my T that I love her? She knows I care. But telling that I LOVE her makes everything so much more real. I don't know if real is the right word, but it would make things different, I suppose.
I'm conflicted. I'm scared also. I'm really not good with using the L word with anyone for the first time, even past boyfriends. I'm getting nervous just thinking about.
Posted by twinleaf on November 22, 2008, at 12:58:42
In reply to The L word with T?, posted by JayMac on November 22, 2008, at 12:31:16
I don't know if seeing a psychoanalyst is all that different from seeing a therapist, but, because there is such an emphasis on saying EVERYTHING that pops into your mind, you don't really have the luxury of deciding whether or not you'll say something. The more you don't want to say it, the more you know you should. This is by way of building up to telling you that I just told my analyst that I loved him on Friday! He looked pleased, and said, " I'm glad you're able to trust me enough now to feel that way". It was kind of a big deal for me; I, too felt proud of myself- it really did feel like progress. But I know that sometime in the next month I'll have to tell him how angry I am that he's going on vacation at Christmas, or how sad I am leaving his office some days- and I'll probably also tell him that I love him again too!
Posted by JayMac on November 22, 2008, at 13:16:43
In reply to Re: The L word with T? » JayMac, posted by twinleaf on November 22, 2008, at 12:58:42
I am seeing an analyst! Lol...I don't always say the first thing that comes to mind. But I agree that the more I don't want to say it, the better it would be for me to say it. Gosh....it's such a simple phrase with substancial meaning. Just a couple weeks ago I hated her guts. This past Wednesday I was angry at her. Lol and know I want to declare my love for her?!?!
That's great you were able to tell him!!!
If you don't mind me asking, how long have you been together?=)
Posted by twinleaf on November 22, 2008, at 13:36:22
In reply to Re: The L word with T? » twinleaf, posted by JayMac on November 22, 2008, at 13:16:43
I've been seeing him for eighteen months. It's really hard work, isn't it, to express all these overpowering feelings? But that is really at the heart of what we're doing- expressing our love, hate, desire, longing, anger, jealousy to him/her, and having it flow through their more relaxed, well-trained brains and then back to our own. When it comes back to us, it somehow seems much more acceptable and natural to us. Rewiring at work.
Posted by Wittgensteinz on November 22, 2008, at 18:04:17
In reply to The L word with T?, posted by JayMac on November 22, 2008, at 12:31:16
Like Twinleaf, I have also told my therapist (analyst) how I love him. What I find interesting is how using the word 'love' requires particular courage - there are of course many ways of showing love/expressing love to someone. For me, actually saying the words "I love you" was a very big thing. I recall feeling afraid it would sound trivial or corny - 'I love you' is almost as over used as certain swear words - when such strong/powerful language is over-used, it makes it hard when we really want to use it with conviction. Using 'love' also brought a new level of vulnerability - it opened up the whole topic of what kind of love - of course there is a whole spectrum of loving feelings. For me, by daring to use the love word, I was opening the door to the discussion of the extent of my loving feelings toward him. In my case, it took courage but saying it felt good - a relief.
JayMac, you're right, actually saying it does make it more real - it makes it something that you both experience there and then at the same moment (she feels your love, and you feel your love toward her) - until now, you know how you feel toward her and likely she does too, but it hasn't been acknowledged and experienced mutually in the here and now - and that's something very important.
The first time I told my T I loved him, I did so in an e-mail (and this came after many months of building up to it i.e. telling him he mattered to me, that there were times when I really missed him, that I felt increasingly attached to him, that it mattered to me how he felt toward me etc.). Anyway, as always with any e-mails I send him, we discuss them in the next session and I talk him through them - the reason for this is that then we experience whatever I wrote in the here and now. At the time, I asked him if he already knew that I loved him. He said he did - that he already felt it through the other things I had said but that he found it courageous of me to express it explicitly. We then shared a warm moment of silence together.
I rarely send mails at this stage - I think because I can express myself more freely - there is less 'left-over' that should have been said and which I then force myself to write instead.
I've met these moments numerous times during my therapy (I've been seeing my T for about 20 months). Usually it is with very difficult, painful (shameful) things - things that have required an extra level of trust to share - but it is these very things that are the most difficult, the things I feel the strongest desire to avoid that when I do share bring the most relief and carry me the furthest forward - I have to say that I have never regretted taking the plunge and just letting go enough to say it. Being able to just talk freely is really a gift and in my experience as time goes and trust builds, it becomes more spontaneous.
Twinleaf, I can imagine that last session will be one that will remain vividly fixed in your mind - did sharing your love bring you similar feelings of relief and warmth?
JM - good luck - when you are ready, this will be a very important thing to share with your T.
Witti
Posted by JayMac on November 22, 2008, at 18:26:27
In reply to Re: The L word with T? » JayMac, posted by Wittgensteinz on November 22, 2008, at 18:04:17
Witti,
Thank you, that was very helpful! Reading your post almost made me cry (I'm sure I would cry if I weren't at work).This has been something on my mind for about a month or so. I can definitely feel my unconscious working on it. I've been telling the people I love them more often. Maybe I'm more appreciative of my loved ones.
I hope my T knows that I care about her DEEPLY, if not, that I love her. We've thrown the word around when speaking about the people I care about. I've told her I care about her. So, in a way, I've said it. Lol.....I just gotta work up to saying it.
Lately, it's been tough because I've been getting upset about the littlest things. I feel like I'm constantly telling her, "I hate you! Don't leave me!!!" I get upset, come to my senses (with her help of course), then we are good and dandy. Then, it happens all again.
Posted by twinleaf on November 22, 2008, at 19:07:39
In reply to Re: The L word with T? » Wittgensteinz, posted by JayMac on November 22, 2008, at 18:26:27
Yes, Witti, it did. It was frightening for me to say it, but once I was able to, it was followed by wonderful moments of happiness and a sense of closeness and peacefulness between us. Thanks for your beautiful post, which describes that process in such illuminating detail.
Posted by Dinah on November 22, 2008, at 22:34:37
In reply to Re: The L word with T? » JayMac, posted by twinleaf on November 22, 2008, at 19:07:39
You guys are so darn much better than I am with attachment. It was well over five years into therapy before I felt anything close to love. I do remember how hard it was to tell him even then. I said "attached" as if it were a curse.
Posted by obsidian on November 22, 2008, at 23:26:52
In reply to Re: The L word with T?, posted by Dinah on November 22, 2008, at 22:34:37
isn't it awful dinah?...to be "attached"
Posted by Dinah on November 22, 2008, at 23:37:15
In reply to Re: The L word with T? » Dinah, posted by obsidian on November 22, 2008, at 23:26:52
No... It really isn't.
I thought it was. But when I quit fighting it and leaned into it, I found it was pretty wonderful.
I think if I had to choose between never loving again or never being loved again, I'd definitely put the priority on loving. There is such a sense of peace and lightness to it.
That my therapist has grown to care for me as well is nice. But loving without cursing the attachment was much much better.
(Not that I don't still curse the attachment at times.)
Posted by lucie lu on November 23, 2008, at 1:28:48
In reply to The L word with T?, posted by JayMac on November 22, 2008, at 12:31:16
Hi Jay,
I think it is both important and potentially extremely rewarding to fight your fears and say the L word to her. Remember that ultimately, she is the stand-in for what will hopefully be people in your life that you will be able to love. Wouldn't you want to say that to someone in your life and feel safe, comfortable, and authentic? To do that, if you've had wounds in that area as you have, takes both practice and working through your fears. Your T will be very happy to hear those words from you because she knows how hard they are for you and that it means progress in moving toward the courage and choice to work through fears of intimacy. I am confident, from what you've said about her, that she will not handle it badly. And it's true, that the session in which the L word first appears, remains memorable and special for both participants (isn't it true of most love relationships?). I'd consider it a real sign of progress that you have let yourself feel this for her and are becoming able to talk about some of your deepest and most important feelings. This will also make it easier to say other important but difficult things to her and also search beyond the L word for deeper meanings of intimacy for you.
So go for it, Jay. I think the risk will more than be repaid many times over.
Hugs,
Lucie
Posted by JoniS on November 23, 2008, at 11:01:03
In reply to Re: The L word with T? » Wittgensteinz, posted by JayMac on November 22, 2008, at 18:26:27
Hi JayMac,
I have enjoyed reading this post. It sounds like your t relationship is going well and I think you're in a good place. It's wonderful when therapy is generating a closeness, trustfulness.
I love what Witti said too. It did make me cry!
This week I told my t AGAIN that I was "in love" with him. I've told him before that I love him, probably 5-6 times over the past 5 and a half years. This week he was sort of pushing me, but I sometimes need that, to be pushed to get it out. But my t says if you speak it (whatever the stuff is in your head) it takes away it power (meaning power in a bad way, like power holding me back). But I'm not sure it really took away any power for me. I still hurt tremendously, and in large part I think, from unrequited love.
Keep up the good work!
Joni
Posted by JayMac on November 23, 2008, at 12:52:25
In reply to Re: The L word with T?, posted by Dinah on November 22, 2008, at 22:34:37
Attachment is difficult! It's been hard work lately. We've had some ups and downs.
Posted by JayMac on November 23, 2008, at 12:55:57
In reply to Re: The L word with T? » JayMac, posted by lucie lu on November 23, 2008, at 1:28:48
Thank you Lucie!!! Yeah.....I don't know when I wank to tell her. I only see her once this week (tomorrow). I'm thinking I'll tell her when I see her twice in a week. Hopefully I'll tell her one day, and we can talk about it the next. Lol....knowing me, I'll tell her and quickly change the subject. But who knows?! I may say it without even thinking. Maybe that's the way to go, then I don't have all the anxiety built up. I'm a total freak when it comes to telling people these sorts of big deal things.
Hugs to you as well!
Posted by frida on November 23, 2008, at 12:56:38
In reply to The L word with T?, posted by JayMac on November 22, 2008, at 12:31:16
Hi!
I've seen my T for a long time now, and I have told her that I love her.
I haven't told her many times out loud and I don't think I told her face to face, but I have by email and phone. And when we talk face to face she takes for granted I do love her and refers to that sometimes in a positive way and saying she loves me back.For me, it did make it more real and she was glad I could see her more human and express those feelings..she said that after all we've shared , of course she feels love too..
It was very nice to tell her those words the times i could on the phone.
She responded wonderfully.I hope you can tell your T , too...
it is difficult, but such a wonderful thing to express.
Frida
Posted by lucie lu on November 23, 2008, at 13:02:51
In reply to Re: The L word with T? » lucie lu, posted by JayMac on November 23, 2008, at 12:55:57
Posted by JayMac on November 23, 2008, at 13:08:58
In reply to Re: The L word with T? » JayMac, posted by JoniS on November 23, 2008, at 11:01:03
Thanks! Overall, it has been going well. There have been many times lately where I've doubted her and myself and the whole process.
My T says the same thing about saying things aloud. I'm learning. It's relieving though.
Thank you Joni!!
Posted by JayMac on November 23, 2008, at 13:22:32
In reply to Re: The L word with T? » JayMac, posted by frida on November 23, 2008, at 12:56:38
Frida,
Thanks for the support!I've been thinking about signing an email "Love, 'my name.'" It's subtle but not so subtle.
Posted by JayMac on November 23, 2008, at 13:27:09
In reply to The L word with T?, posted by JayMac on November 22, 2008, at 12:31:16
It's ironic, but I think I'm MORE fearful of her RESPONSE than telling her. I know that she won't kick me out of the room or tell me I'm imagining things. I'm sure she will say something meaningful. I'm scared. I'm not even sure what I'm fearful of.
Not sure if this matters: I had a dream last night that this person (representing my mom or someone who's supposed to love me) kept reprimanding me for everything I did. Nothing I did was good enough. Maybe I don't feel good enough to even be having these feelings toward her? Or maybe I don't feel worthy of her love? Which is actually somewhat true. Or maybe I don't feel like my love should matter because it's not perfect. I don't know......
Posted by lucie lu on November 23, 2008, at 14:29:13
In reply to Re: The L word with T? Irony., posted by JayMac on November 23, 2008, at 13:27:09
How about if you write down the dream (so you don't forget), bring it with you and use that as an entry into the subject? It may be easier initially to express what your fears are rather than just trying to push through them. Sometimes a lateral approach allows you to go farther on the first try than a head-first :)Lucie
Posted by JayMac on November 23, 2008, at 14:51:58
In reply to Re: The L word with T? Irony. » JayMac, posted by lucie lu on November 23, 2008, at 14:29:13
That's a great suggestion! I wish it weren't for me!!! Lol....maybe, maybe I'll try that. I'm getting nervous just thinking about it....I see her tomorrow and then not for 10 days. That's a long time in my world. I don't know if I can say such a thing and then not see her for a while. Or maybe that will help.
I know ya'll are saying, "Just do it, you'll be happy once you do."
I want to go in tomorrow and write it down pass her the note. Like in grade school! Lol......I make myself laugh :P
Posted by lucie lu on November 23, 2008, at 15:21:15
In reply to Re: The L word with T? Irony. » lucie lu, posted by JayMac on November 23, 2008, at 14:51:58
Well, this is just me but... I'm not sure I would put too much pressure on a session that will be followed by 10-day hiatus. Maybe you can just discuss the dream, which you've already produced, and let her do the rest of the work tomorrow (lol). I would probably try not to do anything that would arouse my anxieties (more than usual) and maybe also spend a few minutes talking about how the 10 days can be made more tolerable for you and feeling secure until you see her again. Again, that's just based on my own issues.
Posted by JayMac on November 23, 2008, at 16:16:26
In reply to Re: The L word with T? Irony. » JayMac, posted by lucie lu on November 23, 2008, at 15:21:15
Posted by DAisym on November 23, 2008, at 18:56:46
In reply to Re: The L word with T? Irony. » JayMac, posted by lucie lu on November 23, 2008, at 15:21:15
I was struck by what Lucie said about the therapist being a stand in and how eventually one should move to expressing loving feelings to someone IRL. And I thought, "well yes, I guess that is the ultimate goal. But what if the love you feel for your therapist is really for THEM and generated BY them?" So I've been thinking about this.
Of course, transference exists in all relationships. How could it not? But I do think that we can have strong loving feelings for our therapist that they have "earned" if I can say it that way. I think, perhaps, that is why their response is so important and carries so much anxiety for all of us. We want them to accept our love - not necessarily return it. We want them to know it is for them and for them to take it in and hold it. And I think we want them to acknowledge that this capacity we have to love them and to trust them enough to express the love, is a frightening, wonderful thing. I think loving is as powerful as being loved. It is incredible to know you can feel so deeply and it is even more incredible when they accept your love as special and OK - not something to run from or something that will taint them. Because isn't it really a step toward growth - to be able to love someone who has been kind and helpful to you?
Just some rambling musings after a long weekend.
Good luck with this.
Daisy
Posted by onceupon on November 23, 2008, at 20:54:46
In reply to The idea of a stand-in, posted by DAisym on November 23, 2008, at 18:56:46
I couldn't agree with this more, Daisy. I think that, in addition to a transference-based relationship, we certainly have real relationships with our therapists too. I feel like I'm on the edge of loving my therapist, if that's possible. But even that feels like a step in the right direction.
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