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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JayMac on November 14, 2008, at 18:42:56
Hey All,
I know I haven't posted that much lately. There have been a number of things going on. I've been in my mind a whole lot more than normal. With that said, my T and I have been through a WHOLE LOT lately. This past session, I think my T and I had a breakthrough. A couple weeks ago, I had a breakdown--some MAJOR transference going on. We worked through it, and we reconnected.
Yesterday, I was able to talk about things that I haven't mentioned before and didn't even think that I could tell her (in my mind, I thought her reaction would be too great for me to handle). Of course, she was welcoming and encouraging.
She and I have been joking around a whole lot more. In a way, we have been playing. She's actually said a whole lot more about herself in the past 3 sessions, than the past many months we've been together. It's been nice, it's been sweet. The other day, she went off on a tangent about her cell phone. It was funny! We laughed in a way that wouldn't have suggested we were doing therapy!
I feel like we are at a major turning point. I feel like we were at a stop light for a while, and, although it was a yellow stop light, I wanted to yield and come to a complete stop. We recently came to a holting stop. Now, I feel like it's turned green and we are flying and it's great!
I've recently imagined what it would be like to go on an 8 hour drive with her: What I would feel, how she would act outside her office, when would there be awkward silences, what music (if any) we would listen to, what we would talk about, and much more.
We are completely reconnected, attached, secure, and it's nice.
This is not to suggest we will never disconnect again, it's just to say that I was able to reconnect in a way that I have rarely (if ever) experienced before.
Have any of you experienced a turning point in your therapy? I'm curious what it was like, for you, individually. Thoughts? Feelings? Meanings?
Hugs to you all!!!
Thanks! =)
JayMac
Posted by Dinah on November 15, 2008, at 11:17:50
In reply to Turning Point with Your T?, posted by JayMac on November 14, 2008, at 18:42:56
So darn many. On such a long journey, there are bound to be a lot of turning points.
I posted above about the wince he gave when I made graphic mention of my method of suicide. It gave me a tiny grain of hope that he might actually care if that happened to me. I wasn't kidding when I said that it was probably gas. He's not much of a wincer for emotional reasons, but he does wince if something physical hurts.
There was the late evening appointment when the office was closed down. He was tired and frustrated and while I don't remember the context I think he was trying to tell me it was him, not me. He blurted out that he had a problem with dependent women! Then looked absolutely horrified and said no more. But from then on a lot of the struggles I had with him at the time ended. He had recognized his countertransference and attended to it. It really was a whole lot him. I was reacting to something that actually was there. Looking back it's one of my favorite therapy moments. But I'm not sure why.
For a long time he refused to comment on that, then I think he forgot it. But those times I mention it now, he laughs and says he thinks at that point he was dating, and having his own struggles. "Countertransference!" he says now, and we both smile with some sympathy for the him he was then. And recognition that this is no longer an issue between us.
Not all that long after the dependent women statement and to my recollection at around five years in, I had the dawning realization that I trusted him, that I was strongly attached. But he still responded to me as if I was the person who told him that I didn't need him in session. He could just rent me the space because it was the room that helped me. The person who quit therapy on a pretty regular basis. It took him another two years to trust that I had changed. One day I told him to look at me! I wasn't that person anymore! Something had changed in me and I needed him to see the person in front of him *now*, not the person I was then. Again, he thought about what I said and realized that I hadn't acted that way since year five, and that he wasn't reacting to the person in front of him. Again, as soon as he realized this he changed completely. From time to time it may well up in him. But day to day it was gone.
At year ten, I finally trusted the trust. We got down to the deeper levels of therapy that some lucky people might manage from the very beginning. But my first five years was spent learning to trust, and my second five years was spent learning to trust the trust, and that was its own sort of deep therapy I guess. Just not the dig deep inside and gain insight about the ugly stuff sort.
Then Katrina hit, and it wasn't so much a turning point as... well, a hurricane. It spun us around, spit each of us out to land on our rears, then sent tides of personal reactions and life events in to make it darn difficult to find and hold on to the therapeutic bond for a while. A long while. The therapeutic relationship tottered on its storm battered foundations. But over the three years since then we've built something again. Something a lot different than it was before. More mutual, even though I manage to keep him as my therapist mommy. More accepting on my part. More genuinely caring on his part. I'm guessing overall that we certainly didn't end up where we would have otherwise, and I suspect that where we are isn't as desirable a state as where we would have been, from a therapy standpoint. But given what did happen, I think we've cobbled together the best and strongest relationship we could under the circumstances. Maybe a bit less perfectly therapeutic and a bit more mutual.
I think the latest turning point was when he really started to realize that I meant something to him on a personal level. And I started to believe on a really deep level that he cared about me. Before I'd trusted the relationship, I'd trusted him, but I never trusted that he cared about me as X the therapist rather than Therapist X. I think I was right. He may say that he always cared about me. But the difference in "how" is striking.
I sorta have a glimmer of where the next turning point might be. But I suppose there's no point in looking down the road. The nice thing about turning points is that they're totally unexpected. They arise naturally, sometimes prodded by a single moment and a single realization. And sometimes they're more gradual, but still arise naturally.
Posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2008, at 12:44:17
In reply to Re: Turning Point with Your T? » JayMac, posted by Dinah on November 15, 2008, at 11:17:50
Dinah wow you two have been through a lot together. And guess what as you know you made it. Congratulations to you. Love Phillipa
Posted by lucie lu on November 15, 2008, at 13:01:41
In reply to Re: Turning Point with Your T? » JayMac, posted by Dinah on November 15, 2008, at 11:17:50
Posted by lucie lu on November 15, 2008, at 13:07:28
In reply to Turning Point with Your T?, posted by JayMac on November 14, 2008, at 18:42:56
Jay,I am sooo happy that you've been able to experience this kind of closeness with your T. I know how much it means to you, remember how much you were hurting because you missed your mother. You paint this lovely picture of you two, friends, mother-daughter, maybe even sisters. I can hear the happiness in your voice. Yes, there will be ruptures. No meaningful relationship is without them, how could it be if you are both being authentic with each other? That's just another aspect that adds to the depth of the attachment (there's that A word again-lol). You express such joy, it makes me smile with you :)
Hugs, Lucie
Posted by JayMac on November 15, 2008, at 16:02:55
In reply to Re: Turning Point with Your T? » JayMac, posted by Dinah on November 15, 2008, at 11:17:50
> He blurted out that he had a problem with dependent women! Then looked absolutely horrified and said no more. But from then on a lot of the struggles I had with him at the time ended. He had recognized his countertransference and attended to it. It really was a whole lot him. I was reacting to something that actually was there. Looking back it's one of my favorite therapy moments. But I'm not sure why.Hmmm.......I think it's very relevant that you were able to distinguish between his own stuff and yours. That is definitley a moment worth remembering.
> One day I told him to look at me! I wasn't that person anymore! Something had changed in me and I needed him to see the person in front of him *now*, not the person I was then. Again, he thought about what I said and realized that I hadn't acted that way since year five, and that he wasn't reacting to the person in front of him. Again, as soon as he realized this he changed completely.
It's great that you confronted him with reguard to his perception of you. That's a noteworthy turning point.
> At year ten, I finally trusted the trust. We got down to the deeper levels of therapy that some lucky people might manage from the very beginning. But my first five years was spent learning to trust, and my second five years was spent learning to trust the trust, and that was its own sort of deep therapy I guess. Just not the dig deep inside and gain insight about the ugly stuff sort.
The "learning to trust" phrase is very difficult, and I think it does come in cycles. Gradually, they will come less frequently with more positive experiences with one's T.
> Then Katrina hit, and it wasn't so much a turning point as... well, a hurricane.
I would think ANY catastrophe would throw any relationship for a loop.
> I think the latest turning point was when he really started to realize that I meant something to him on a personal level. And I started to believe on a really deep level that he cared about me. Before I'd trusted the relationship, I'd trusted him, but I never trusted that he cared about me as X the therapist rather than Therapist X. I think I was right. He may say that he always cared about me. But the difference in "how" is striking.
That's REALLY special. That makes me smile.
> I sorta have a glimmer of where the next turning point might be. But I suppose there's no point in looking down the road. The nice thing about turning points is that they're totally unexpected. They arise naturally, sometimes prodded by a single moment and a single realization. And sometimes they're more gradual, but still arise naturally.
Isn't that the truth! I would have never guessed about my turning points with my T or life.
Posted by JayMac on November 15, 2008, at 16:04:33
In reply to Re: Turning Point with Your T? » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2008, at 12:44:17
Thank you! It's special.
Posted by JayMac on November 15, 2008, at 16:06:12
In reply to Re: Turning Point with Your T? » JayMac, posted by lucie lu on November 15, 2008, at 13:07:28
Thank you! It is very smile-worthy.
Now I'm scared of ruining things....lol....
Posted by Racer on November 17, 2008, at 23:19:10
In reply to Turning Point with Your T?, posted by JayMac on November 14, 2008, at 18:42:56
My breakthrough came when my T screwed up my appointment right before she left for vacation. We'd had to reschedule to a different day, since she was going to be gone on my regular day.
I called that morning to confirm the time, because I hadn't written it down. She told me that she didn't have me down at all, and was totally booked up. I said, "oh, well, that's OK, see you when you get back." (I think it reflects well on her that she said it was probably her mistake. She's good that way.)
The next day, I called and left a message on her machine, telling her it really hadn't been OK. I was very upset, and felt hurt by what happened. She actually called from vacation to apologize and offer any number of concessions to make it up to me -- coming in on her day off, etc -- but I opted to wait until my regular day. By then I realized what had happened: I had finally experienced full on transference with her...
We joke about it now, because up until then, I had a major wall up. That was the start of the wall coming down. (Only a couple of years into the process, of course... I've never said to be quick.)
Great topic, and congrats to you.
Posted by JayMac on November 18, 2008, at 18:12:22
In reply to Great topic » JayMac, posted by Racer on November 17, 2008, at 23:19:10
That's neat! I appreciate a T's ability to make things right. Also, I like when I feel like my T is a normal human being. I didn't used to feel that way.
Thanks for sharing =)
This is the end of the thread.
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