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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by turtle on September 20, 2008, at 22:25:37
In therapy I always need to be covered. I started to think of the couch pillow in my lap as my turtle shell protecting me. Im just too exposed and vulnerable without it. I pull issues out of the shell one by one to look at them, then tuck them back in at the end of the session to hide them. Very little penetrates my protective shell. I have a huge need to be safe.
My first therapist terminated me suddenly after two years because I never got over my fear. I was completely shut down during most of my second year with her, and we both made many mistakes and never repaired them. We were not a good fit and it was a very painful termination. (She even commented once that she wanted to take my pillow away!)
I am now 8 months into therapy with a new t who is absolutely wonderful. She is wise, patient, caring, warm, and most importantly safe while pushing me in all the right areas. Im making a huge amount of progress. My experience with the two therapists is as different as night and day.
This week I found myself talking about some of the pain I still feel from the mess in my first therapy relationship. It was a very intense session. Unfortunately, my new therapist doesnt have any pillows in the room so I take my coat in with me every session and hold it in my lap, even on the hottest summer days. Somewhere around the middle of the session I came out of the telling trance I was in and became aware of my body language. I had curled up and stretched the coat to its very limits to cover as much of my body as I could, and the hand holding the top part of the coat had also grabbed my shirt collar and pulled it over to cover the area of my neck that the coat couldnt reach!
The day after that session I realized that I may have had my coat covering me, but my real turtle shell underneath the coat was gone. During that session, I not only fully trusted her (huge!) but I was also present, sharing my emotions, and allowed her to be with me to share the experience. My truths were all on the surface and available. I would have answered any question she asked without hesitation. I was open and connected. These are all huge accomplishments for me. This is all so new and scary.
This realization brought on a rush of gratefulness and a feeling of being so fortunate to have her support and help. I have this urge to start the next session telling her how much I appreciate her. Thinking about this in turn led to me feeling what I can only describe as Need. Huge and terrifying Need - for my t, for comfort, for closeness, for it all. Ive been very alone all of my life and having support and trust is new. The Need feels like Im drowning in it. Im holding my breath and it just aches. I cant shake it off or make it go away. (My usual dysfunctional ways of making this type of thing go away arent working as well any more.)
I know Im supposed to talk to her about this, but Im not sure yet if I can. This make me want to pull back and I feel like I just cant do this. The desire to run away is intense. Its way too painful and it makes me feel like I want to just pack it all up, quit therapy, go back to the way things were before, and just be safe.
By the way, Ive been lurking on this site for about a year. (Yes, turtles are slow in many ways!) I credit much of my progress and success with this new therapist to all that I have learned from all of you (and my ts skill too of course!). There are some very courageous and insightful people on this site. Therapy is not easy. (Thank you!)
Thanks!
Very naked Turtle
Posted by JoniS on September 20, 2008, at 22:57:00
In reply to Missing Shell?, posted by turtle on September 20, 2008, at 22:25:37
Welcome Turtle!
What a moving, tender post. - and you've just been lurking? you've got a lot to contribute. Congratulations on your growth and trust. It sounds like you've made some serious progress. I hope you continue to have successful therapy. I love hearing about loving, professional therapy relationships. (Its sad and frustrating sometimes to read about bad therapists... dont mean to be negative)
Thanks for your post! I'm looking forward to hearing more from you in the fuure :o)
Joni
Posted by lucie lu on September 20, 2008, at 23:47:55
In reply to Missing Shell?, posted by turtle on September 20, 2008, at 22:25:37
Hi Turtle,
What a wonderful thing to post! Thank you so much for sharing your story. You have made such a huge breakthrough in your therapy already, and you now seem in a great position to move forward with this new T. You know that you have really started your journey to growth and healing when you recognize, as you have done, that Need sometimes needs to be capitalized ;)It is great that you feel such warm feelings for your T. Take things as slow as you need to, let yourself enjoy the new feelings of trust as they unfold. I'm sure your T can see you coming out of your shell and that it makes her happy to see you starting to emerge. Slow and steady...
Glad you decided to start posting, and look forward to hearing from you.
All the best,
Lucie
By the way, glad you've started to post.
Posted by lucie lu on September 20, 2008, at 23:51:37
In reply to Re: Missing Shell? » turtle, posted by lucie lu on September 20, 2008, at 23:47:55
Posted by Dinah on September 21, 2008, at 8:49:45
In reply to Missing Shell?, posted by turtle on September 20, 2008, at 22:25:37
Hi and welcome! I'm glad you decided to post.
It sounds as if your second therapist is able to do what your first therapist wasn't. To be with you and be patient while you learned to trust. It's really amazing how powerful an experience that can be.
It's not at all surprising to me that now that you're feeling, the feelings are so overpowering right now. From what you say about your therapist, it sounds as if she'll be able to be there for you for that as well.
I agree with Joni. It really is nice to hear about positive therapy experiences.
Posted by turtle on September 21, 2008, at 10:55:05
In reply to Re: Missing Shell? » turtle, posted by JoniS on September 20, 2008, at 22:57:00
Hi Joni
Thank you for the warm welcome!
I agree, I've enjoyed reading about the positive therapy experiences also. When I was with my first t, I would read here about how some people feel like they have actual relationships with their therapists - close, supportive, intimate - and not understand what was going wrong with my own therapy. It was very confusing. The stories here showing me how good therapy could be helped me to have the courage to start over and seek this with someone new.
And you are also right, time to start joining in! Im not quite sure why I waited so long. (the dilemma of the introvert who needs to feel safe!)
thanks,
Turtle
Posted by turtle on September 21, 2008, at 11:21:54
In reply to Re: Missing Shell? » turtle, posted by lucie lu on September 20, 2008, at 23:47:55
Hi Lucie
Thanks for a very important reminder - to take it slow and let myself enjoy the new feelings of trust. Ill have to think about this for a bit.
I think that Ive been focused mostly on how vulnerable I feel, how shameful it is to have needs, and my fear of making her feel uncomfortable with it. When I step back and take another look though, it is true that it feels good too. I dont have the words for all of those feelings yet, but its something good.
Its funny that you commented on the capital Need. I had the urge to write NEED in some big, bold and demanding way that represented all that I felt, but restrained myself to just one little Capital letter. As you mentioned, growth and healing is very much a journey - recognizing Need, allowing it to exist, having someone to share it with, and finding the courage to get those words out of my mouth. Its all a bit overwhelming! (and good!)
thanks!
Turtle
Posted by turtle on September 21, 2008, at 11:43:46
In reply to Re: Missing Shell? » turtle, posted by Dinah on September 21, 2008, at 8:49:45
Hi Dinah
Discovering that I have trust for my therapist is "amazing and powerful", and very mysterious to me. Im not really sure how it happened and recently spent some time thinking about this.
It feels a little like my first therapist had frustration because she couldnt shake my secrets out of me without building up the relationship first. The connection and trust never came. I havent quite identified yet what it is in my new therapist that I trust. I think its something about the combination of her strength, gentleness, and respect, but know there is much more to it than that. I just havent been able to define it all yet. Whatever it is, she stood by me while I found my way. Its as if something deep within me responded to her with trust, and then my intellect scrambled behind to verify it was all real and true. The process was/is very powerful and deep.
Thank you for the welcome!
Turtle
Posted by Phillipa on September 21, 2008, at 12:15:49
In reply to Re: Missing Shell? » Dinah, posted by turtle on September 21, 2008, at 11:43:46
I'd like to welcome you also and glad you decided to post your story. Phillipa
Posted by turtle on September 21, 2008, at 12:21:21
In reply to Re: Missing Shell? » turtle, posted by Phillipa on September 21, 2008, at 12:15:49
Thank you Phillipa! I appreciate your welcome.
Turtle
Posted by Dinah on September 21, 2008, at 14:27:08
In reply to Re: Missing Shell? » Dinah, posted by turtle on September 21, 2008, at 11:43:46
:)
I call it magic.
Some combination of his style, what he projects, maybe even his pheromones. (The last was his laughing suggestion.) I don't think I'll ever understand it. All the usual explanations of why clients attach to therapists (unconditional positive regard, patient listening, undivided attention) fall short in my particular instance.
Posted by JayMac on September 21, 2008, at 17:14:29
In reply to Missing Shell?, posted by turtle on September 20, 2008, at 22:25:37
Welcome, welcome to psycho babble! Great to have you here!!
I can completely relate to your neediness for your T. Sometimes I feel like I need her so much, it's scary.
Hope to see you around more =)
Take care,
JayMac
Posted by turtle on September 21, 2008, at 21:13:06
In reply to Re: Missing Shell?, posted by JayMac on September 21, 2008, at 17:14:29
Hi JayMac
Thanks for the welcome!
It is scary to need one individual so much, especially given the nature of the relationship. The need was created over an entire lifetime, and Im trying to work it out with one person who is paid to spend 50 minutes a week with me. It seems almost impossible to get through this without a lot of pain.
Thanks,
Turtle
Posted by turtle on September 21, 2008, at 21:51:41
In reply to Missing Shell?, posted by turtle on September 20, 2008, at 22:25:37
What was it like when you first started to talk about Need with your therapists?
I have this wishful-thinking image (someone elses life) where a conversation about feeling close and having needs could be a happy and casual thing.
I know that is a fantasy image. This is therapy, hard work. I have so much *stuff* worked up in all of this and the needs are huge and deep. I dont even understand it all yet. It seems like this is going to be a long, ongoing, painful topic to work through.
How were your experiences?
Thanks!
Turtle
Posted by no_rose_garden on September 21, 2008, at 21:54:48
In reply to Missing Shell?, posted by turtle on September 20, 2008, at 22:25:37
>> Very little penetrates my protective shell. I have a huge need to be safe.
>>Huge and terrifying Need - for my t, for comfort, for closeness, for it all. Ive been very alone all of my life and having support and trust is new. The Need feels like Im drowning in it. Im holding my breath and it just aches. I cant shake it off or make it go away.
I love the way you put everything in this post, turtle. I feel this way so much, too.Welcome to the site, and I like your name :)
-No rose garden
Posted by turtle on September 21, 2008, at 22:28:32
In reply to Re: Missing Shell?, posted by no_rose_garden on September 21, 2008, at 21:54:48
Thank you, No Rose Garden. Your name is very creative too. I like the play on the traditional "rose garden" image!
Turtle
Posted by no_rose_garden on September 21, 2008, at 23:07:38
In reply to Re: Missing Shell? » no_rose_garden, posted by turtle on September 21, 2008, at 22:28:32
thanks, turtle...i actually got it from a book i like: "I never promised you a rose garden." It's older...but one of my favorites.
Posted by turtle on September 22, 2008, at 0:12:56
In reply to Re: Missing Shell? » turtle, posted by Dinah on September 21, 2008, at 14:27:08
Dinah, I keep coming back to your reply. Yes, magical is the word to describe how the new trust came into being.
After I get the stars out of my eyes though, I come back to the place where I wish I could define it. I just can't untangle it yet though.
I've gotten myself into trouble many times with not knowing what trust is all about. (Here new person, I'll give you open access to all of these ways to hurt me, so I trust you. But when it comes to sharing myself or standing up for myself when you are hurtful to me? I ignore and deny it all. My needs do not exist. Just what are needs anyway? That is the mystery.) Even with my past therapist my needs were not being met and trust did not develop, but I so desperately wanted to stay in that relationship.
Now that I have the first glimmer of what it feels like to trust and be open, and have that trust be deserved, I very much wish I could define it as more than "magic" so that I can learn to be healthier in my future relationships. I need someone outside of therapy to fill these Needs and to trust, but what exactly am I looking for?
You also understood so well with the "now that you are feeling, the feelings are all so overpowering." I know that 'my flow' doesn't work so well for me. I have this desert-flood cycle that goes on with my emotions, along with not understanding what I feel much of the time. This Need thing is definitely a flood right now. I have much work to do.
Thanks,
Turtle
Posted by seldomseen on September 22, 2008, at 6:50:03
In reply to Re: Missing Shell?, posted by turtle on September 21, 2008, at 21:51:41
My experience with my therapist and need was a somewhat painful experience. It got all wrapped up in transference. It was a period a sadness, anger and frustration. It also was tainted with a pronounced fear of him just abandoning me with all these feelings.
Somedays I would just let the fantasy "win", only to eventually "face plant" in the therapeutic boundary. Other days I denied it was even there.
But I kept on talking and talking and talking and it turned out to be a very very productive time for me in therapy. I learned what my therapist would and wouldn't be. Most importantly I learned what I truly wanted him to be.
Someone who would go through all of the crap with me. Someone who was a medical professional and could clinically evaluate the state I was in and take action if needed. Someone who I didn't have to fight against.
It took a while, but my best advice is to keep talking, keep poking out of your shell. Your therapist, it sounds like, will hold the fort.
Seldom
Posted by Poet on September 22, 2008, at 15:06:43
In reply to Missing Shell?, posted by turtle on September 20, 2008, at 22:25:37
Hi Turtle,
Welcome to babble and congratulations on being comfortable outside your shell. I've been seeing my therapist for six years and I still cross my arms and legs tight, sometimes with a pillow for an extra barrier. Sometimes I throw the pillow at her.
I hope you don't run away. It's okay to use your shell if you need it to stay. Remember trust takes time to build.
Poet
Posted by turtle on September 22, 2008, at 19:17:21
In reply to Re: Missing Shell? » turtle, posted by seldomseen on September 22, 2008, at 6:50:03
Thank you, Seldom
I'm trying to learn to "just let the fantasy win." Its a huge struggle to not fight what I'm feeling and allow it to be so that I can learn and figure out what I need.Just the thought of saying those words is scary scary scary. Hearing your experience is helping me tonight.
Turtle
Posted by turtle on September 22, 2008, at 19:32:15
In reply to Re: Missing Shell? » turtle, posted by Poet on September 22, 2008, at 15:06:43
> I hope you don't run away. It's okay to use your shell if you need it to stay. Remember trust takes time to build.Poet,
This really touched me. Is it ok if I say that? The urge to run and withdraw is a struggle. Im fighting both the urge to close myself off and bolt from this topic in therapy, and a little tiny bit of post-posting anxiety. Maybe everyone goes through that? Entering a new group and putting yourself out there can bring on insecurities! (Anyone see a missing shell? Reward offered!!!) Thank you so much for making me feel welcome.
Turtle
Posted by turtle on September 22, 2008, at 19:36:19
In reply to Re: Missing Shell? » turtle, posted by Poet on September 22, 2008, at 15:06:43
Posted by antigua3 on September 23, 2008, at 8:46:21
In reply to Missing Shell?, posted by turtle on September 20, 2008, at 22:25:37
Welcome to Babble! love your name, too.
You said, "I know Im supposed to talk to her about this, but Im not sure yet if I can. This make me want to pull back and I feel like I just cant do this. The desire to run away is intense."
I just wanted to say that i've learned that this is a very common feeling--once we open up, we want to run and hide. It's even proven in the literature! We're afraid that we'll be hurt for what we've said. A good T will teach you that's not true.
I still haven't gotten this process together yet. I blurt and run; and then have to re-build the relationship with my pdoc.
Sounds like you have a great T.
Again, welcome, and I'm so glad you're posting.
antigua
Posted by turtle on September 24, 2008, at 8:19:34
In reply to Re: Missing Shell? » turtle, posted by antigua3 on September 23, 2008, at 8:46:21
Antigua
Thank you for saying this. Posting here has been a good experience. Everyone has unique perspectives that give me more to think about. I didn't expect how reassuring it would be to feel understood by others who feel much the same way.
I still want to run, but your post has helped me to not feel so much pressure to change or hide it as if it was something I was not doing right. I think I was feeling a lot of pressure to be able to do better, to be able to just walk in and talk about my stuff. You've helped me to accept myself as I am just a little more. Maybe I'll go in this week and tell her that I want to run instead of just struggling against that feeling alone. We can start there and see if it leads around to what topic I'm running from? Maybe I'll be able to say it.
Thank you for your encouragement and support!
Turtle
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