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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by raisinb on April 21, 2008, at 20:41:54
So, my therapist occasionally has dreams about me and tells me about them. Today she told me a particularly vivid one that I'm not sure how to feel about.
On Saturday, she was supposed to call me because I've been very depressed and I struggle particularly on the weekends. Our phone call got interrupted and she had to call me back. She explained that her toddler-aged son just wouldn't go to sleep, that she'd been trying with books and everything else all afternoon, but that he kept getting up. This was tough for me to hear. Although she was there and available, I felt like I was intruding into her real life, that I was another burden, and so I couldn't talk and told her I needed to go. Before we hung up she said she had something to say--that she knew we struggled with our relationship, but that when we did connect, it was "very powerful" for her and that she enjoyed it very much. This made me feel better, even though the phone call hadn't worked out.
Today, she told me she had a dream about me Saturday night. She and I were in the mall shopping, and we chose to go into different stores but arranged to meet in a few minutes. While she was in the store, a she saw a friend who was reeling and bleeding from a stab wound. She said she was trying to help the friend and there was blood all over her (my therapist's clothes). She thought, "oh, I will be late to go meet raisin, so I took my phone out and started texting you, but all of a sudden there you were. And then I realized that my clothes were clean. No blood at all. So I didn't have any evidence...and I woke up and thought, 'oh my god, this is what *she* (i.e., me) sees.'" (I think she meant that I saw her as perfect or unaffected.)
I am not at all sure whether to feel rejected by this or not. She seemed to be reading the dream as evidence of our miscommunication. But it also sounded to me like she realized "oh, I can't really take care of her the way she needs, and I wish I had some evidence so I don't have to feel so guilty about it." I don't even know if I'm okay with her telling me her dreams about me to start with, come to think of it. It's disquieting.
On top of that, it was a pretty emotional session (for both of us) because it was the last session in the current office. I was fighting back tears the whole time. She alternately got teary and tried to do things to help me feel better--gave me a paperweight from her desk to take to the new place, said she'd put a piece of tape on the chair because she wanted me to be able to sit in the same place (she has three that look exactly the same, and they'll get mixed up in the move).
I am really mixed up about the whole thing. Good feelings, bad ones, fears...
What do you guys think? Want to take a stab at interpreting a T's dream, for a change?
Posted by seldomseen on April 21, 2008, at 20:52:54
In reply to interpret my T's dream, please? *long*, posted by raisinb on April 21, 2008, at 20:41:54
I interpret these dreams that your T feels she isn't helping you. The first dream I think represents that she is frustrated in her performance with you because she keeps getting interrupted or, alternatively "can't get to you" and The second dream, I think represents thaht she thinks won't understand her shortcomings becuase you she her as "bloodless" or perfect.
Just my take on it.
How do you feel about your T telling you her dreams?
Seldom
Posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2008, at 20:53:52
In reply to interpret my T's dream, please? *long*, posted by raisinb on April 21, 2008, at 20:41:54
I am not good at this, but this what I first thought. Maybe she is trying to empathize with how you feel when you need her? Maybe guilt for not being there for you when you need her? Maybe she is being somewhat resistant to you and your needs and she is aware of it, but can't understand why?
Posted by raisinb on April 21, 2008, at 22:11:36
In reply to Re: interpret my T's dream, please? *long* » raisinb, posted by seldomseen on April 21, 2008, at 20:52:54
Oh sorry, I wasn't clear. There was only one dream; the part about the phone call really happened (I thought since it was the same day it was important for context.)
If she feels she isn't helping me she's right at the moment. I've been very depressed for a couple of weeks--it's been building for awhile--and she keeps offering more phone calls, more help, and nothing really works. I don't know if I have faith that she can help me and I don't know if I want her help. Which is a big shift for me. I don't really understand it.
I don't know how I feel about her telling me her dreams. Like anybody who's into their therapist, I sure like it that she dreams about me. However...I'm not sure I want to know all about her personal conflicts regarding me...and I'm not sure she thought this one through before she shared it with me. Seems like there were more layers and I can see things she didn't think about.
Posted by raisinb on April 21, 2008, at 22:12:46
In reply to Re: interpret my T's dream, please? *long* » raisinb, posted by seldomseen on April 21, 2008, at 20:52:54
That "bloodless" part is right on. She is always saying she feels like I need her to be perfect.
Posted by raisinb on April 21, 2008, at 22:14:24
In reply to Re: interpret my T's dream, please? *long*, posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2008, at 20:53:52
Those are good points too. I have kind of violent images about myself and my pain, and sometimes I share them with her.
I think guilt played a big part in the dream and I wish I did not know that. I sure don't want her guilt. It makes me feel like a burden to her.
Posted by Phillipa on April 21, 2008, at 23:21:27
In reply to Re: interpret my T's dream, please? *long* » Happyflower, posted by raisinb on April 21, 2008, at 22:14:24
I don't know you guys have more experience with therapists than I have. I just wonder why she would tell your her dreams . I know mine sure wouldn't. Like today she wouldn't even tell me what a thought I had meant. I almost begged then stopped. So therapists tell clients dreams? Love Phillipa
Posted by raisinb on April 22, 2008, at 7:58:37
In reply to Re: interpret my T's dream, please? *long* » raisinb, posted by Phillipa on April 21, 2008, at 23:21:27
Hi Philippa, I think she told me to try and make our relationship clearer. A recurrent theme in our therapy is that I accuse her of terrible things, and she gets frustrated and says I don't see her caring and good intentions. I think the dream has some resonances of that.
Posted by raisinb on April 22, 2008, at 8:08:44
In reply to interpret my T's dream, please? *long*, posted by raisinb on April 21, 2008, at 20:41:54
Do you guys think it's inappropriate for her to tell me her dreams? I'm having trouble figuring this one out.
Posted by seldomseen on April 22, 2008, at 8:25:23
In reply to I don't know--, posted by raisinb on April 22, 2008, at 8:08:44
well, I know that some schools of therapy do allow for the therapist sharing stuff about themselves, including their dreams, with the patient. The dreams can then be discussed in therapy and become therapeutic tools for the patients to discuss the therapist/patient relationship.
Personally, if she's got something to say to you, I would want her to either say it, or just keep it to herself.
i feel like this a lot to put on you. How do you feel about it?
Posted by rskontos on April 22, 2008, at 9:21:40
In reply to I don't know--, posted by raisinb on April 22, 2008, at 8:08:44
Raisinb, I know that probably both of my therapist, my former one and my current one would tell me if they had one. My first one shared more of herself with me times she thought about me etc. To show she thought about how it might feel to be me I think.
My thoughts first is it hard to get personal information from them because then we, who are naturally I think people that are used to shouldering too much from other people in terms of guilt, bad feelings and negative vibes, get caught up in their lives in ways that don't help us. This is part of my therapy problem too.
When you called her and her IRL interrupted you felt bad because this is part and parcel of who you are. You take on too much of the bad in a relationship (I am hearing, correct me if I am wrong). You wanted to end the conversation, she might be able to step out of the happenings on her end, but you can't.
I think maybe in her dream she got that. And she saw that you really need her to be there for her all the time when she is communicating with you or you will internalize her real life too. And that sometimes you see her as someone that steps too much out things and you don't see how the relationship affects her so you accuse her of things when what you really need is to see her feelings sometimes like you see it in her RL. The baby driving her crazy. You want evidence that you matter to her as well. That you don't roll off of her and when she departs from you there is no evidence you were ever there. Maybe she told you this dream because she finally got this?
It is inappropriate if you two don't talk it fully out and you know exactly why and there remains no unanswered questions. If you continue to question her actions, then yes it is inappropriate.
If this clears the air for you, then it was the right thing. I think the hard thing is it is up to you, to make sure she discloses all you need her to in making this dream known to you so that you have closure and know all you need to process it meaning to you as well. This is therapy for you not her. She just needs to know how to better help you, not herself. If it upset you, then telling her makes her a better therapist, if it helps then it makes her a better theapist for you.
That is best thing, to help you ultimately. Only you can answer it. So if you still have questions, you two need more dialogue. JMHO
rsk
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2008, at 9:27:22
In reply to interpret my T's dream, please? *long*, posted by raisinb on April 21, 2008, at 20:41:54
My main feeling is "ick". I may want my therapist to think about me outside therapy (within reason), but I don't think I want him to dream about me. And I definitely don't want him to tell me his dreams.
As you say, you may understand and even agree with her main point in telling you. But dreams are windows to things that might just be better left unsaid in general, and even moreso from therapist to therapee.
I think your interpretation of it is pretty good. Are you going to bring up with her the things she didn't say?
Posted by raisinb on April 22, 2008, at 10:13:47
In reply to Re: I don't know--, posted by seldomseen on April 22, 2008, at 8:25:23
I do not know how to feel about it. RSK was right on--I need to know that I'm held in her mind somehow, that she doesn't just forget about me when we are not in session.
But there are points at which I think I know too much. This feels like one of those times. I feel sometimes like I get a glimpse of the real person--kind of vulnerable, unsure, emotional herself--and it is disquieting. I want her to be the all-knowing authority figure I guess.
Posted by raisinb on April 22, 2008, at 10:15:01
In reply to Re: I don't know-- » raisinb, posted by rskontos on April 22, 2008, at 9:21:40
Rsk, you are right on about many things. I do take on too much guilt, and I do need to see more of her feelings. Maybe that is why she told me. But we do need to talk more about it. I'm worried about bringing it up because it might be a hard discussion.
Posted by raisinb on April 22, 2008, at 10:16:35
In reply to Re: interpret my T's dream, please? *long* » raisinb, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2008, at 9:27:22
I don't know, Dinah. Next session is the first in the new office, and it will be pretty darn tough without having difficult discussions. I think I'll have to wait and see how I feel. Probably I'll end up tabling the discussion until a later date...which means it might not get brought up at all.
Posted by twinleaf on April 22, 2008, at 10:17:23
In reply to interpret my T's dream, please? *long*, posted by raisinb on April 21, 2008, at 20:41:54
I'm going to come down on the side that your therapist is not maintaining optimal boundaries. You have a therapeutic relationship with her; any time she introduces personal information- whether it is that her little son wouldn't take a nap, or telling you a dream that she had about you, she is weighting the relationship with information and feelings which are not properly a part of your therapy. In particular, a dream like the one she told you is not at all helpful- there are issues in the dream, possibly including guilt, which are HERS, not yours.
While it is true that in all long-term therapies we do come to know personal things about our therapists- they wouldn't be human if we didn't- overall the best therapists do keep the focus firmly on us. The way your therapist is behaving, you have your own self to understand and deal with, but you also have HER, with all of her complexities. If she is having issues with raising a little child (as we all do), or with her concerns about how your treatment is going, she, and you, would be much better off consulting privately about them. Would you be able to talk about this with her?
Posted by rskontos on April 22, 2008, at 10:56:34
In reply to Re: interpret my T's dream, please? *long* » Dinah, posted by raisinb on April 22, 2008, at 10:16:35
Raisinb,
while I know it will be in a new place with all those feelings the move will bring up, I agree with Twinleaf. And in keeping with what I said earlier she gave you too much window into her personal life. it unsettled you, gave you guilt and did not help unless she explains it more. You need to tell her this as well as how the new office makes you feel so try not to shelf it if at all possible. Like Twinleaf said she overstepped some boundaries that are necessary. Take care my friend. Try to take to the next level if you can and this is the pot calling the kettle black :)
rsk
Posted by MissK on April 22, 2008, at 18:08:53
In reply to Re: I don't know-- » seldomseen, posted by raisinb on April 22, 2008, at 10:13:47
>I need to know that I'm held in her mind somehow, that she doesn't just forget about me when we are not in session.
This seems to be big with many on here. Why is that so important? Why should you be on her mind or, alternatively, why do you think she would just forget about you?
> feel sometimes like I get a glimpse of the real person--kind of vulnerable, unsure, emotional herself--and it is disquieting. I want her to be the all-knowing authority figure I guess.
Well, you can't have it both or all ways. She's neither. That's why the professional boundary works so well, at least for myself.
Posted by Happyflower on April 22, 2008, at 20:08:38
In reply to I don't know--, posted by raisinb on April 22, 2008, at 8:08:44
For me I think it is too much to put on a client. She should be asking HER T about this dream. It seems like you are spending probably more time thinking about her dream, than thinking about yourself and your stuff. I am not sure if that is a good thing for a T to share. Especially if it can be taken negatively in some cases.
Posted by raisinb on April 22, 2008, at 20:44:26
In reply to interpret my T's dream, please? *long*, posted by raisinb on April 21, 2008, at 20:41:54
Thanks all for the feedback. I'll tell her Thursday that I understand that she had good motives (which I think she did), but that I'd like her to think these things through more carefully before she shares them because this did not end up being helpful.
As for her deeper issues/feelings that I see in the dream--i.e., guilt--I don't know whether to bring that up or not.
I have asked her a million times to please tell me right away or discuss referrals if she thought we weren't getting anywhere or she thought she couldn't help me. She always says she absolutely would do that. Now I am afraid she's not being honest with me due to her issues.
Boy, this could be a real can of worms.
Posted by seldomseen on April 22, 2008, at 20:47:53
In reply to Re: I don't know--, posted by MissK on April 22, 2008, at 18:08:53
"This seems to be big with many on here. Why is that so important? Why should you be on her mind or, alternatively, why do you think she would just forget about you?"
Different people feel this way for different reasons I'm sure. Lately, I want to be on my T's mind because I want him to be thinking of ways to help me. I want him to use that psychiatrist brain of his to bring a therapeutic plan to the table. A therapist that forgets about a patient is a bad therapist.
When I first started therapy it was for a completely different reason. I wanted my T to think of me fondly, because some of the stuff I was saying was not very pretty. My history definately had left me with the belief that I was not to be liked, or thought well of, and was, in fact, best forgotten. I still retain some of those feelings today, but it helps immensely and very therapeutic to know that there is one person out there that challenges those beliefs. It helps me to challenge them as well and recognize IRL that other people will to.
Just my thoughts.
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