![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 48. Go back in thread:
Posted by Happyflower 1 :-) on September 19, 2007, at 21:49:49
In reply to Congratulations!!! » Happyflower 1 :-), posted by Quintal on September 19, 2007, at 21:38:24
Normal isn't good if you are hated.
Posted by Quintal on September 19, 2007, at 21:55:31
In reply to Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality?, posted by Quintal on September 19, 2007, at 19:34:43
Just took it again. These are the results, same as last time (and under the influence of Xanax too), just cut & paste from the box at the bottom of the screen.
____________________________________________________Disorder | Rating
Paranoid: Very High
Schizoid: High
Schizotypal: High
Antisocial: High
Borderline: Very High
Histrionic: Very High
Narcissistic: High
Avoidant: Very High
Dependent: High
Obsessive-Compulsive: HighURL of the test: http://www.4degreez.com/misc/personality_disorder_test.mv
URL for more info: http://www.4degreez.com/disorder/index.html
__________________________________________________Q
Posted by Quintal on September 19, 2007, at 21:56:16
In reply to Re: Congratulations!!! » Quintal, posted by Happyflower 1 :-) on September 19, 2007, at 21:49:49
Do you think you are hated?!
Q
Posted by cactus on September 19, 2007, at 22:17:52
In reply to Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality?, posted by Quintal on September 19, 2007, at 19:34:43
apparently I do according to their test results from me. Interesting questionnaire, thanks Q. I found the schizotypal info very interesting
Disorder Rating
Paranoid: Low
Schizoid: Moderate
Schizotypal: Very High
Antisocial: Low
Borderline: Very High
Histrionic: High
Narcissistic: Moderate
Avoidant: Very High
Dependent: High
Obsessive-Compulsive: High
Posted by Quintal on September 19, 2007, at 22:25:14
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality, posted by cactus on September 19, 2007, at 22:17:52
>I found the schizotypal info very interesting
Yeah, lol, I just found sometghing crunchy and glass-like in my beef rice. My first reaction was "OMG someone has put a vial of cyanide in the packet and I just crushed it!!!" For a few seconds my heart raced and my chest tightened. I thought I was dying. Only a little part of me piped up "Quitnal, dear, get a grip on yourself. Is this reasonable? Is this likely?!". I've said before, the line dividing me from paranoid schizophrenia is a thin one. Mindfulness and discriminating awareness are my salvation.
Q
Posted by cactus on September 19, 2007, at 22:36:41
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality » cactus, posted by Quintal on September 19, 2007, at 22:25:14
LOL, you make me laugh, but at the same time what the hell was it???
Posted by Quintal on September 19, 2007, at 22:49:47
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality » Quintal, posted by cactus on September 19, 2007, at 22:36:41
I don't know! It got wedged in one of my rear molars and crunched every time I closed my mouth - felt a bit like a piece of tooth had broken off, but that seems unlikely with beef rice. Maybe just a bit of hardened pepper? Anyway, I took a Xanax and now it's all gone away, I'm floating on a pink cloud of serenity.
Q
Posted by cactus on September 20, 2007, at 0:43:03
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality » cactus, posted by Quintal on September 19, 2007, at 22:49:47
> I don't know! It got wedged in one of my rear molars and crunched every time I closed my mouth - felt a bit like a piece of tooth had broken off, but that seems unlikely with beef rice. Maybe just a bit of hardened pepper? Anyway, I took a Xanax and now it's all gone away, I'm floating on a pink cloud of serenity.
>
> QI opted for a rivotril day, have a good one
Posted by Racer on September 20, 2007, at 1:33:45
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality, posted by cactus on September 20, 2007, at 0:43:03
Here are my results:
Disorder | Rating
Paranoid: High
Schizoid: Moderate
Schizotypal: Moderate
Antisocial: Low
Borderline: Low
Histrionic: High
Narcissistic: Moderate
Avoidant: High
Dependent: High
Obsessive-Compulsive: HighThe problem I have with it is that some of the questions are more situational for me, or they're absolutely accurate perceptions of what's going on around me. Obviously, some of that is to be expected, especially with questions like, "Do you feel uncomfortable in social situations?" Um... Would that be social situations like dinner with GG and my mother the other night? Or social situations like hanging out at my local? Or social situations like cocktail parties where I know one or two people, tops?
The biggest issue for me, though, involved my family. Members of my family have told me for most of my life that I'm selfish, self-centered, arrogant, a failure, uncaring, etc. Let me see... Hm... These are the same people who did what during my childhood? Protected me? Nope, that wasn't it... That's right! These are the people who neglected me, berated me, insulted me -- and often continue to do so. So, when they ask, "Do you feel suspicious that people close to you are planning things that will end up hurting you?" I gotta say -- as a matter of fact, yes, they are!
There's a family crisis going on right now, which I'm afraid is going to lead to a family firestorm. Those same accusations are likely to come up again. Some things have already been said. So, that's not Paranoia -- that's accurate reporting based on previous experience of these people!
But it is a cool test. I'll probably take it again, if I remember to...
Posted by Sigismund on September 20, 2007, at 3:30:24
In reply to I took it, but have some problems with it..., posted by Racer on September 20, 2007, at 1:33:45
Paranoid: Low
Schizoid: Moderate
Schizotypal: Very High
Antisocial: Moderate
Borderline: Very High
Histrionic: Moderate
Narcissistic: Moderate
Avoidant: High
Dependent: Moderate
Obsessive-Compulsive: HighI'm glad to see I'm disordered, but not so pleased to see that I don't rate highly on the narcissistic scale. Schizotypal is very high, from which I gain some Langian comfort. Avoidant too, which pleases me, for what I enjoy most (I often think) is to avoid this world. Would I like to be paranoid? Paranoid people are fun from a distance. This test sucks. You can tell the mentality of the people who made it up.
Posted by B2chica on September 20, 2007, at 8:14:28
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality, posted by cactus on September 20, 2007, at 0:43:03
Paranoid: Moderate
Schizoid: High
Schizotypal: High
Antisocial: Moderate
Borderline: Low
Histrionic: Low
Narcissistic: Low
Avoidant: Low
Dependent: Low
Obsessive-Compulsive: Moderatei've taken a similar test before and dang those schizotypal ones...high every time...hmmmm
i think it's a conspiracy...
quintal, i'm laughing but not laughing! i know Exactly what you are talking about...with your post on you dinner! i tend to do that alot, thinking something like that, i get myself in a tizzy (medical term) and then have to calm myself down and rationalize.
...MAN i miss my xanax!
Posted by pegasus on September 20, 2007, at 9:18:36
In reply to Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality?, posted by Quintal on September 19, 2007, at 19:34:43
Paranoid: Moderate
Schizoid: Low
Schizotypal: Moderate
Antisocial: Low
Borderline: Moderate
Histrionic: High
Narcissistic: High
Avoidant: Moderate
Dependent: Moderate
Obsessive-Compulsive: LowIt's not the results I would have expected. Obsessions are the reason that I originally entered therapy however many years ago, so it's interesting to see OCD rated low.
I always thought of myself as more "expressive" than Histrionic . . .
Narcissistic!? Ouch, but that one feels like it fits, too. I guess I should be happy about the low ratings on the others. I was secretly hoping to register on the Schizotypal scale, though.
p
Posted by Racer on September 20, 2007, at 10:06:23
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality, posted by pegasus on September 20, 2007, at 9:18:36
>
> Avoidant: Moderate
> Dependent: Moderate
> Obsessive-Compulsive: Low
>
> It's not the results I would have expected. Obsessions are the reason that I originally entered therapy however many years ago, so it's interesting to see OCD rated low.
>There's a world of difference between OCD and OCPD -- Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder is not so much about obsessions and compulsions in the way that OCD is. It's about perfectionism, and a rigidity of thinking. Not, you understand, that I grew up with an OCPD parent...
Of course, it is possible to have both...
Posted by vwoolf on September 20, 2007, at 10:38:32
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality, posted by pegasus on September 20, 2007, at 9:18:36
Why would you want to be defined as schizotypal? I'm interested. I have been given this definition and I find it quite heavy.
Posted by pegasus on September 20, 2007, at 10:47:15
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality » pegasus, posted by Racer on September 20, 2007, at 10:06:23
Sorry, yes, my mistake. You're right, I would characterize myself more as obsessive, than as perfectionistic or rigid. I guess that explains it.
Posted by pegasus on September 20, 2007, at 10:58:37
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality, posted by vwoolf on September 20, 2007, at 10:38:32
Sorry, I was trying to be a bit silly, which I know doesn't usually come across well in print. Underneath the silliness, what I meant is that I value the eccentricity that I see in people who are sometimes labeled as schizotypal. I guess I liked the way Sigismund's post spun around the negativity of having a diagnosis. I really meant it in a supportive way, rather than as making light of something serious. But I can totally see that it could come across as making fun, or making light, or other less than supportive motives. Many apologies for that.
p
Posted by Quintal on September 20, 2007, at 11:04:40
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality, posted by pegasus on September 20, 2007, at 9:18:36
I think I should point out that NPD is a world apart from ordinary narcissism too. NPD is the creation of a false self to compensate for perceived unacceptable flaws in the real self. There's very little genuine self-love involved, in fact NPD is almost a deficiency of self-love. The perceived narcissism of people with NPD is an elaborate illusion.
____________________________________________________Pathological narcissism occurs in a spectrum of severity [6]. In its more extreme forms, it is narcissistic personality disorder. NPD is considered to result from a person's belief that he or she is flawed in a way that makes the person fundamentally unacceptable to others [7]. This belief is held below the person’s conscious awareness; such a person would typically deny thinking such a thing if questioned. In order to protect themselves against the intolerably painful rejection and isolation they imagine would follow if others recognized their supposedly defective nature, such people make strong attempts to control others’ view of them and behavior towards them.
Psychologists commonly believe that pathological narcissism results from an impairment in the quality of the person’s relationship with their primary caregivers, usually their parents, in that the parents were unable to form a healthy, empathic attachment to them. This results in the child conceiving of themselves as unimportant and unconnected to others. The child typically comes to believe that he or she has some defect of personality which makes them unvalued and unwanted [6].
To the extent that people are pathologically narcissistic, they can be controlling, blaming, self-absorbed, intolerant of others’ views, unaware of others' needs and of the effects of their behavior on others, and insistent that others see them as they wish to be seen [4]. They may also demand certain behavior from their children because they see the children as extensions of themselves, and need the children to represent them in the world in ways that meet the parents’ emotional needs [8]. (For example, a narcissistic father who was a lawyer demanded that his son, who had always been treated as the "favorite" in the family, enter the legal profession as well. When the son chose another career, the father rejected and disparaged him.)
These traits will lead overly narcissistic parents to be very intrusive in some ways, and entirely neglectful in others. The children are punished if they do not respond adequately to the parents’ needs. This punishment may take a variety of forms, including physical abuse, angry outbursts, blame, attempts to instill guilt, emotional withdrawal, and criticism. Whatever form it takes, the purpose of the punishment is to enforce compliance with the parents' narcissistic needs[8].
People who are overly narcissistic commonly feel rejected, humiliated and threatened when criticised. To protect themselves from these dangers, they often react with disdain, rage, and/or defiance to any slight, real or imagined [9]. To avoid such situations, some narcissistic people withdraw socially and may feign modesty or humility.
There is a broad spectrum of pathologically narcissistic personalities, styles, and reactions -- from the very mild, reactive and transient, to the severe and inflexible narcissistic personality disorder.
__________________________________________________Q
Posted by pegasus on September 20, 2007, at 11:29:50
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality, posted by Quintal on September 20, 2007, at 11:04:40
Ah, this one I got right, I think. Your discription of NPD does feel uncomfortably close to home for me, allowing that there is a continuum. I would argue that a "High" rating for me seems inflated. To add to your definition, in a succinct way, on Wikipedia there's an entry for NPD:
"Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder that is characterized by extreme feelings of self-importance, a high need for admiration, and a lack of empathy. NPD can be considered as a pathological form of narcissism."
Posted by Quintal on September 20, 2007, at 11:46:17
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality » Quintal, posted by pegasus on September 20, 2007, at 11:29:50
My quote was from the Wiki article on NPD! In fact the entire passage was. There seems to be some conflict among psychologists about what constitutes NPD. The quote you isolated would seem to be an example of the most severe, intractable and inflexible form of NPD. It's clear from the rest of the article that there's much more to NPD than narcissism, and that it overlaps in some ways with BPD and other cluster B personality disorders. I'm in the middle of a discussion about this on another board, but we just seem to keep on tying ourselves in knots. The most we can agree on is that by narcissism, psychologists mean that the pathological narcissist is self-absorbed (as opposed to truly self-loving). Perhaps the pathological narcissist is in love with the false self, and demands excessive admiration for it, lacks empathy for others etc, but that's not really self-love is it? Or is it?!... because the false-self is one's own creation. Soooo..... maybe NPD is self-love by proxy?
____________________________________________________
True self, false self
Alexander Lowen describes pathological narcissism, and narcissistic personality disorder, as "the denial of the true self"[11]
Masterson describes the creation of a false self as:
"when a young child fails to separate her own self-image from that of her mother. This happens roughly between the ages of two and three, often because of a parent’s own emotional problems. A mother’s encouragement of a child's self-assertion is vital. When the mother suffers from low self-esteem, she has difficulty encouraging her child’s emerging self. The child experiences this absence as a loss of self, creating feelings of abandonment that lead to depression. To deal with the depression, the child gives up efforts to support her emerging self. Instead, she relies on her mother’s approval to maintain the esteem of a "false self." [12]
Narcissistic personality disorder and shame
It has been suggested that Narcissistic personality disorder may be related to defenses against shame. [13]
Gabbard suggested NPD could be broken down into two subtypes[14]. He saw the "oblivious" subtype as being grandiose, arrogant and thick skinned and the "hypervigilant" subtype as easily hurt, oversensitive and ashamed.
He suggested that the oblivious subtype presents a large, powerful, grandiose self to be admired, envied and appreciated, which is the antithesis of the weakened and internalised self that hides in a generic state of shame, in order to fend off devaluation, whereas the hypervigilant subtype, far from fending off devaluation, is obsessed with it, neutralising devaluation by seeing others as unjust abusers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
__________________________________________________Q
Posted by Quintal on September 20, 2007, at 12:10:20
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality » pegasus, posted by Quintal on September 20, 2007, at 11:46:17
I should add that I think I swing between the two subtypes:
"Gabbard suggested NPD could be broken down into two subtypes[14]. He saw the "oblivious" subtype as being grandiose, arrogant and thick skinned and the "hypervigilant" subtype as easily hurt, oversensitive and ashamed.
He suggested that the oblivious subtype presents a large, powerful, grandiose self to be admired, envied and appreciated, which is the antithesis of the weakened and internalised self that hides in a generic state of shame, in order to fend off devaluation, whereas the hypervigilant subtype, far from fending off devaluation, is obsessed with it, neutralising devaluation by seeing others as unjust abusers."
In real life I'd say I behave in the hypervigilant subtype 'style':
"whereas the hypervigilant subtype, far from fending off devaluation, is obsessed with it, neutralising devaluation by seeing others as unjust abusers."
But put me in front of a keyboard, and I tend to behave in the oblivious subtype style (but I'm not really oblivious):
"He suggested that the oblivious subtype presents a large, powerful, grandiose self to be admired, envied and appreciated, which is the antithesis of the weakened and internalised self that hides in a generic state of shame, in order to fend off devaluation."
Which might be a sign of my borderlines traits? At times I feel utterly lost, have no sense of self at all, which is a sign of BPD. I've read that traits of NPD are a sign of recovery from BPD, because it shows the emergence of a sense of self. At times I wonder if any human being has ever felt like this before. I think my peers were quite accurate in their diagnosis "freak of nature" than any sprawling and elaborate psychodynamic explanation is likely to be. Just mother nature performing one of her 'innovative' experiments, see if I sink or swim, just testing the success of these traits in the human gene pool. I suppose it's up to me to bear my burden lightly.
Q
Posted by pegasus on September 20, 2007, at 12:36:58
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality, posted by Quintal on September 20, 2007, at 12:10:20
Very interesting . . . thanks Quintal. I think I share some of the traits that you describe for yourself. I definitely would say that I'd fall more in the hypervigilant subtype. This especially hits home: neutralising devaluation by seeing others as unjust abusers
I also liked this:
"I've read that traits of NPD are a sign of recovery from BPD, because it shows the emergence of a sense of self."
Maybe that's why I always felt a bit of affinity with BPD, even though I don't think I am. I've also struggled with my sense of self, and sometimes it seems so fragile and needing of (too aggressive?) protection.
Thanks for helping me learn more about this.
p
Posted by twinleaf on September 20, 2007, at 13:50:03
In reply to Re: Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality » Quintal, posted by pegasus on September 20, 2007, at 12:36:58
The test seems sort of ultra-simple, so I wonder how valid it is. I'd think that these questions would have to be asked in different ways multiple times for it to be dependable. That said, I found that I scored low on everything except dependence, which was high. This does fit well with the fact that I am extremely sensitive to loss. I don't have much resilience at all in coping with that. I feel overwhelmed, and don't know how to mourn properly, and the result has been recurring episodes of depression.So, maybe the test is not that bad!
Posted by B2chica on September 20, 2007, at 14:24:30
In reply to Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality?, posted by Quintal on September 19, 2007, at 19:34:43
http://similarminds.com/personality_disorder.html
Quintal and ALL
here's a different one that i had taken a while ago...my results now are similar to back then, but i think i like the questions a little better.Paranoid 58%
Schizoid 90%
Schizotypal 90%
Antisocial 30%
Borderline 42%
Histrionic 10%
Narcissistic 22%
Avoidant 10%
Dependent 18%
Obsessive-Compulsive 50%
Posted by Quintal on September 20, 2007, at 17:14:57
In reply to Different Personality Disorder Test, posted by B2chica on September 20, 2007, at 14:24:30
Disorder -----My Score--Average Score
Paranoid |||||||||||||||||| 78% 49%
Schizoid |||||||||||||||||||| 90% 53%
Schizotypal |||||||||||||||||| 74% 53%
Antisocial |||||||||||||||| 70% 47%
Borderline |||||||||||||||||||| 86% 47%
Histrionic |||||||||||| 46% 43%
Narcissistic |||||| 30% 41%
Avoidant |||||||||||||||| 62% 39%
Dependent |||||||||||| 50% 37%
Obsessive-Compulsive |||||||||| 34% 40%Well I'm pleased the results are broadly similar in both our cases. I like the fact that you can choose a neutral response with this questionnaire, and also the author's note:
__________________________________________________Author Note: I don't think Schizoid personality is a valid disorder (read), some of the smartest people in history were schizoid because they occupied a remote end of the intelligence bell curve. Schizotypal personality can encompass highly original thinkers as well as totally insane people so I think it's a flawed type. I think the remaining eight disorders are generally valid.
__________________________________________________I wonder which two he scored highest on? ;-)
Q
Posted by LlurpsienOOdle on September 20, 2007, at 17:47:32
In reply to Does Anyone Else Have a Disordered Personality?, posted by Quintal on September 19, 2007, at 19:34:43
Llurpsie 9/20
Paranoid: Low
Schizoid: Low
Schizotypal: Moderate
Antisocial: Low
Borderline: Very High
Histrionic: Low
Narcissistic: Moderate
Avoidant: High
Dependent: Moderate
Obsessive-Compulsive: Lowno surprises there.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.