![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Honore on August 18, 2007, at 12:11:22
This question really has oppressed me last night and today. I realized that I didn't know someone here at all-- that my image of him/her was so partial and naive as to be misleading to myself, and potentially leaving me vulnerable to being unexpectedly (but actually not at all unexpectedly) hurt or surprised by a change in his/her seeming feelings about me. I've had intimations of this in the past, but I pushed them aside because otherwise how can one even be here-- if everything is subject to doubt and confusion?
I wonder if there's anything here that we can trust-- even if no one violates our anonymity or is uncivil to us in a formal way.
Honore
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 18, 2007, at 12:41:03
In reply to Do we actually know one another at all?, posted by Honore on August 18, 2007, at 12:11:22
I hate that feeling.
the answer to your question is as old as philosophy itself...
Posted by Squiggles on August 18, 2007, at 12:41:07
In reply to Do we actually know one another at all?, posted by Honore on August 18, 2007, at 12:11:22
i don't know anyone either - and perhaps that's
part of dr. bob's good plan; but i can tell one
thing about you-- you may be an academic or a
writer, or a very well educated person-- by the
comas placed before the conjunctions.Remember the movie "My Fair Lady"? a linguist
is like a detective.Squiggles
Posted by Honore on August 18, 2007, at 15:24:17
In reply to Re: Do we actually know one another at all? » Honore, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 18, 2007, at 12:41:03
I meant in a much more practical sense, though. Not a philosophical one. There may be hidden wellsprings of feeling and unknown thoughts, quiet disquiets, that everyone harbors, that could spring out one day, and surprise one, no matter how many exchanges one has had with that person.
But I mean, how much do we really know, beyond the pruned, well-groomed parts of ourselves that we (or I, or many of us) show to one another, while we secretly nurture resentments, levels of detachment, critiques, annoyances, or old hurts. How do you know that I'm not very different from the person I show myself to be-- or you from the person you would like me to think you are, and are successfully leading me to have faith in? (I don't mean you, Llurpsie, but anyone here, including myself?)
And yet I feel this naive confidence that things are as they seem, that those who are friendly or compassionate-seeming, are friends or are caring. I don't know-- I wonder if it isn't something that leads us into being deeply hurt or put on the spot, or made to feel foolish, in ways that then come to seem our own fault, for being so gullible.
Honore
Posted by Quintal on August 18, 2007, at 20:10:08
In reply to Re: Do we actually know one another at all? » Honore, posted by Squiggles on August 18, 2007, at 12:41:07
>Remember the movie "My Fair Lady"? a linguist
is like a detective.Whee ah dinnert knarr what te say te this, like. If thee's gannan off me arn post'n style like, thee'd be way off't mark. Thee winnert find iny other bugger spacken hoyty-toyty head-talk like that round my way tha knarrs! Tha'd be blood in tha streets, man!
As you can see, my local dialect is somewhat harsh and guttural - it being a vestige of the ancient Celtic and Viking languages of northern England. It tends not to fall softly upon foreign ears, nor lend itself readily to fluent translation. For that reason I've developed a posting style that, perhaps to one who takes things at first sight, might seem to belong to a member of the well-educated, privileged classes of this country. I most certainly do not. Most of my posts are actually parodies of this style of speech done for my own amusement.
If you examine the videos below you might see how I have suffered a malice of fortune. The last one contains strong language from the outset. Those of a nervous disposition, or those who are easily offended should not click on it. The first is a Thomas The Tank Engine music video and should be offensive to nobody, except maybe the occasional Mackem or Sunderland-dwelling person.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHWUzau5_Bo&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnVgXZeoKQI&mode=related&search=Q
Posted by Quintal on August 18, 2007, at 21:04:54
In reply to Re: Do we actually know one another at all? » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Honore on August 18, 2007, at 15:24:17
>There may be hidden wellsprings of feeling and unknown thoughts, quiet disquiets, that everyone harbors, that could spring out one day, and surprise one, no matter how many exchanges one has had with that person.
Yup, I've learned that lesson the hard way on at least two occasions. Only by chance did I discover the depth of covert hostility someone harbored against me, and the measures they had taken against me in private.
>And yet I feel this naive confidence that things are as they seem, that those who are friendly or compassionate-seeming, are friends or are caring. I don't know--
Yes, outward friendliness and amicability may just be a smokescreen to disguise deeper feelings and motives.
>I wonder if it isn't something that leads us into being deeply hurt or put on the spot, or made to feel foolish, in ways that then come to seem our own fault, for being so gullible.
I felt a little foolish afterward. I am suspicious and paranoid by nature, and the goal of therapy is often to reduce this, to stop second-guessing others' motives and intentions. But that's hard to do after finding most of your suspicions prove correct, or worse; that your darkest suspicions fell far short of the truth.
Q
Posted by RealMe on August 18, 2007, at 21:37:04
In reply to Do we actually know one another at all?, posted by Honore on August 18, 2007, at 12:11:22
Unfortunately people with some sort of abuse in their background, whether it be sexual, physical, or mental/emotional are very susceptible to not trusting and then trusting people who "groom" them to trust. This is what I have learned from working with lots of sex offenders. They "groom" their victims by making them seem special or buying them things or whatever, and then they move in to abuse once they have your trust. So, no one should feel foolish or feel as if this reflects poorly on them. It is food for thought for therapy. Look at it that way; that is what I want to do. It can happen to anyone with incomplete unresolved abuse and/or trust issues.
RealMe (Oz)
Posted by DAisym on August 19, 2007, at 0:18:33
In reply to Do we actually know one another at all?, posted by Honore on August 18, 2007, at 12:11:22
I'd like to offer another perspective.
I found Babble about 6 months after I started therapy. I had so many questions about the process and about my feelings. No one I knew IRL had ever talked about the experiences I was having. And I had no where to be vulnerable, confused, scared and excited about what was happening. Babble offered me a place to talk, to whine, to cry and to ask questions. And I could offer support and answer questions too - who knew?!.
There was a different "group" on Babble then - a few of us are still here and a few have changed their names - but many of us have become "real" friends. We email, we visit, we talk on the phone. And everyone I've met is who they are here. Of course there are a few surprises, like --I'm pretty sure that I'm much more in charge of myself than I ever appear on the board-- but all in all, the trust I placed in these friends has been worth the risk.
I feel like someone at a high school reunion when I say, "things are different now. Back in my day..." Babble does feel different lately. Perhaps we have a group of very sensitive posters on here right now, which is fine. But I remember two distinct times when I posted about feeling suicidal and Babblers kept me safe. My friends kept me safe. So I worry that we've made some people so uncomfortable or scared about being civil that they don't reach out for help, or we don't respectfully disagree -- we just don't go deep with each other. And that feels like a loss.
I'm sad about it being less safe here - both because of being hacked and because of privacy breaches. But over all, I think this is a trustworthy community and one that is really willing to be supportive and provide help. Yes, you must share carefully and selectively. But I think the answer to your question is "yes." We do actually know one another.
I might even suggest that we know each other better here because we are more truthful about our vulnerabilities.
Posted by obsidian on August 19, 2007, at 0:42:09
In reply to Do we actually know one another at all?, posted by Honore on August 18, 2007, at 12:11:22
well as someone who always feels like she has to watch her back...I can at least say for myself
that my intentions are good, I give the benefit of the doubt, I try to think before I speak, that I am a somewhat tortured soul, that I am protective of my friends and avoidant of those who would be otherwise..........
that's just a little of who I am- from someone who usually is waiting for the other shoe to drop
be well honore,
obsid
Posted by Racer on August 19, 2007, at 1:01:20
In reply to Re: Do we actually know one another at all? » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Honore on August 18, 2007, at 15:24:17
>
>
> And yet I feel this naive confidence that things are as they seem, that those who are friendly or compassionate-seeming, are friends or are caring.I used to wonder about that. Now, mostly, I have learned to hold a certain amount of *me* back, but otherwise take everyone here pretty much at face value. That's for my benefit, though, rather than anyone else's. I thought, when I started this post, that I knew why and had something pertinent to say. Now, though, I realize my mind is a blank, so I'll stop now...
Hi, Honore! Excellent topic.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 19, 2007, at 4:21:25
In reply to Re: Do we actually know one another at all? » Squiggles, posted by Quintal on August 18, 2007, at 20:10:08
Ohhhh! Those clips made me laugh. I do like a nice geordie accent. So I didn't realise there was a thing going on between Newcastle and Sunderland? Is that so? I'm abit clueless to be honest. Anyway I'm a Yorkshire lass (well as much as Genteel York can be proper Yorkshire). I remember having to put on a Yorkshire accent properly when I was on the
check-outs at Tesco. They called my friend Meg posh - we both went to the local comp (albeit relatively genteel), but her parents were sensible, teacher types. Now, I don't have an accent - its simply a matter of survival - here noone would understand me if I were to put on a proper accent! I have to speak slowly and clearly enough as it is. So....That geordie looks pretty similar to deepest Scottish with all that 'I dinnae this and I kerne that'. Well not surprising.
I'm not particulary fond of any Southern accent to be honest, particulary like cockney and all those essex boy accents. Bristolian is alright through. Its more like Yorkshire or something like that. Welsh is just funny.
Anyway.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 19, 2007, at 4:27:48
In reply to Re: Do we actually know one another at all? » Quintal, posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 19, 2007, at 4:21:25
Hey, where does the accent change - I have a friend from Selkirk and he has a fine borders accent. There must be like a place with a scottish/georgie hybrid accent comes in? Somewhere like Jedburgh? Nah, thats borders land. Hmmm.
Anyway, where does the name georgie come from? Is it related to the fact that its in England, thus St George stuff? Hmmm.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 19, 2007, at 4:35:57
In reply to Re: Do we actually know one another at all? » Squiggles, posted by Quintal on August 18, 2007, at 20:10:08
This guy is so cool!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apyL9wBWvIk&mode=related&search=
I wanna talk so fluently and stuff like that. I'm way more awkward and um, reserved. I could listen to him for hours...
Of course, when I typed in 'york accents' I got aload of new york accent type things. Oh well.
Posted by Honore on August 19, 2007, at 12:06:40
In reply to Re: Do we actually know one another at all?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 19, 2007, at 4:35:57
yeah, Meri, what's funny, though? That guy doesn't have an accent; he talks pure unaccented English. Of course I am from NY.
Honore
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 19, 2007, at 15:23:50
In reply to Re: Do we actually know one another at all? » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Honore on August 19, 2007, at 12:06:40
Hey! I dunno what you mean.... I never said that NYC guy was funny (if indeed you were referring to him as such). I said I thought he was cool.....
Posted by muffled on August 19, 2007, at 23:51:51
In reply to Do we actually know one another at all?, posted by Honore on August 18, 2007, at 12:11:22
> This question really has oppressed me last night and today. I realized that I didn't know someone here at all-- that my image of him/her was so partial and naive as to be misleading to myself, and potentially leaving me vulnerable to being unexpectedly (but actually not at all unexpectedly) hurt or surprised by a change in his/her seeming feelings about me. I've had intimations of this in the past, but I pushed them aside because otherwise how can one even be here-- if everything is subject to doubt and confusion?
**Noone really knows anybody anywhere for the most part...
We tend to put up a 'front' to all but those select few, or none at all... that we 'trust'.
> I wonder if there's anything here that we can trust-- even if no one violates our anonymity or is uncivil to us in a formal way.**I think we just have to go by what we see, and that is all. But keep our eyes open, and keep basic safety in place.
My T said, that she would try not to hurt me, but she could not guarantee that she never would, cuz despite our best efforts, we sometimes hurt those we care about.
So I try to think the best of others until proven otherwise. And I also keep in mind that we all have our 'moments'.
So.....
I am still here.
I try to be careful.
I hope I don't get hurt.
But there are just no guarantees in this life...
No guarantees bout anything...
So I try to look for the good, keep away from the bad.
Hope you can feel better bout this Honore.
I value your contributions here.
Muffled
Posted by zazenducke on August 20, 2007, at 11:49:16
In reply to Do we actually know one another at all?, posted by Honore on August 18, 2007, at 12:11:22
Posted by Sigismund on August 20, 2007, at 15:24:42
In reply to Re: Do we actually know one another at all? » Honore, posted by muffled on August 19, 2007, at 23:51:51
"No man is an island, entire of itself; every
man is a piece of the continent, a part of the
main. If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory
were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or
of thine own were: any man's death diminishes
me, because I am involved in mankind, and
therefore never send to know for whom the bells
tolls; it tolls for thee."
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.