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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by All Done on February 24, 2006, at 11:28:13
Perhaps this belongs on the Parenting board, but I think after reading you will understand why I put it here.
The last few months have been so difficult with my son. He will be four in June and he’s experiencing a lot of separation anxiety when I drop him off at preschool in the mornings. I know children generally go through another phase of this when they’re around three, so I wasn’t necessarily surprised when it started. But it’s become unbearable for me and I wonder if it’s been going on too long. At first, I consoled myself by saying it was a sign of a healthy attachment, but now, I’m noticing other things. For a few weeks he’s been acting out. He’s been talking back to me and my husband (his dad), his teacher has been reporting behavioral issues everyday, and he seems to be showing some signs of anxiety – nervous habits and expressing fears he’s never had before. We’ve really struggled to deal with all of this because prior to the start of it, he was such an easy child to deal with. This is uncharted territory for us. So, I’m trying everything I can.
Last week, I asked him what would help him to behave and he said, "if you were with me all day." That got me thinking more about his (okay, okay...and maybe my) attachment issues and I know what I wish for and would like from my T, so I started calling my son at preschool everyday. I first asked him if it would make him sad because it would just remind him that I’m not physically there with him. He said no and seemed excited about the prospect of getting a call from his Mommy each day. I have to say...it seems to be working wonders. I have my sweet, well-behaved son back. He still has a rough time when I drop him off in the morning, but he’s completely changed his behavior throughout the day.
So, why did I put this here? I think you guys (better than anyone) know. My attachment to my T has become even stronger than ever. I recently told him that I love him. My sessions have been difficult but pretty amazing. The other day, we talked about me wanting to crawl into his lap so he could just hold me. Sigh. I feel three years old and I want him to call me everyday just to touch base, but instead because of scheduling issues, I don’t get to see him until a week from tomorrow. It’s so hard.
I feel like I’m growing up with my son. Has anyone else experienced this? It's an amazing thing to watch him grow.
It’s a terrifying thing to watch myself grow.
Laurie
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2006, at 11:48:14
In reply to Separation anxiety, posted by All Done on February 24, 2006, at 11:28:13
What a great mom you are!
But you slipped in that important piece of news about disclosure. :) I'm so proud of you!!! I hope you're proud of you as well.
Hoorah!
It sounds like he handled it well?
Believe me, I understand that separation anxiety.
Posted by All Done on February 24, 2006, at 12:03:39
In reply to Re: Separation anxiety » All Done, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2006, at 11:48:14
> What a great mom you are!
>
> But you slipped in that important piece of news about disclosure. :) I'm so proud of you!!! I hope you're proud of you as well.
>
> Hoorah!Thanks, Dinah. I just talked to him for today's call. He told me a little about his day and that he's still getting a "green light" (that's a good thing in his class). He asked what we're doing tonight and if his Daddy is going to be home (he's been out of town for a few days). Then, he said, "I love you. I'm done." And hung up the phone. I think that's another successful call. :)
> It sounds like he handled it well?
Who handled what well?
> Believe me, I understand that separation anxiety.
Both mine and N's have been killing me. I'm getting smacked on both ends. Sigh.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Dinah!
Posted by Annierose on February 24, 2006, at 12:26:35
In reply to Re: Separation anxiety » All Done, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2006, at 11:48:14
Laurie -
Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about. I started to realize about a year ago that how I was feeling towards my T, my kids feel about me. That helped me handle their needs more appropriately, or at least view it from a different perspective. My daughter (now 12) has always been especially clingy. It would get a negative reaction from me --- "leave me alone" --- not those words, but my body languuage expressed that idea. Now I can take a deep breath and say, "do you need a hug from your mom right now?".
My T always says, when you listen to your heart and speak its truth, it will lead you to do the right thing.
I'm glad your son's preschool is allowing the phone calls. Sounds like a great school. And I do think his behavior sounds typical --- a phase kids go in and out of as their development matures.
WOW!! I'm so proud of you for letting your T know how important he is to you. Did he talk about it for the rest of the session? or bring it up since?
I too feel that I am growing up right along my children. I'm about 9 or 10 --- do I have to go through puberty again???
Posted by All Done on February 24, 2006, at 12:35:48
In reply to Re: Separation anxiety » All Done, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2006, at 11:48:14
> But you slipped in that important piece of news about disclosure. :) I'm so proud of you!!! I hope you're proud of you as well.
>
> Hoorah!
>
> It sounds like he handled it well?Sorry for being slow. I got it, now. And yes, I did just kind of slip that little tidbit in, didn't I?
He handled it better than I could have imagined, if that's possible. He was *so* accepting of what I said. He told me it was nice for him to hear it. And he told me he cares for me - a lot. It's not quite the same as hearing he loves me, but he meant it and I feel it. :)
Posted by All Done on February 24, 2006, at 13:04:28
In reply to Re: Separation anxiety, posted by Annierose on February 24, 2006, at 12:26:35
> Laurie -
>
> Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about. I started to realize about a year ago that how I was feeling towards my T, my kids feel about me. That helped me handle their needs more appropriately, or at least view it from a different perspective. My daughter (now 12) has always been especially clingy. It would get a negative reaction from me --- "leave me alone" --- not those words, but my body languuage expressed that idea. Now I can take a deep breath and say, "do you need a hug from your mom right now?".I'm glad you've been able to use all your hard work in therapy to better your relationship with your kids, as well. They are very lucky kids to have you.
> My T always says, when you listen to your heart and speak its truth, it will lead you to do the right thing.That's quite nice. I hope she's right because I think I've got my heart dictating all of my therapy sessions, lately.
> I'm glad your son's preschool is allowing the phone calls. Sounds like a great school. And I do think his behavior sounds typical --- a phase kids go in and out of as their development matures.They are fantastic. He's been there since he was 12 weeks and they know him really well. They've been working very closely with me on all of this. And I do realize it's typical, too. The center director and his teacher both have boys my son's age and they're experiencing a lot of the same things. I guess I'm just hypervigilant because of my issues. I want him to be okay...not like me.
> WOW!! I'm so proud of you for letting your T know how important he is to you. Did he talk about it for the rest of the session? or bring it up since?We talked about it the entire session and then the next session (the other day) was entirely about it as well. I managed to turn it into an icky thing, though. Even though he was so accepting and receptive, I have a hard time believing it wasn't horrifying for him to hear. And I wondered if I put him in an awful position of having to come up with a response that wouldn't hurt me. I'm afraid I may have insulted him by questioning his authenticity. That said, I do trust him to be authentic. I just have such a hard time *accepting* it from him when it's any kind of positive regard for me.
Somehow, we also got on the topic of the fact that my mom wouldn't let me sit on my dad's lap when I was younger (maybe after I was three or four). He wondered if my telling him I love him was kind of like me crawling up into his lap. And afterwards, I thought I shouldn't do that...it's a bad thing. So, the next session, I turned the whole thing into something bad and icky. Of course, at that point, I couldn't help but admit to him (is there anything I don't share anymore?) how badly I wanted to hug him after I told him. So, now I imagine we're going to have to deal with the dreaded (for me, anyway) hugging topic.
He amazes me. It's virtually impossible not to love him. :)
> I too feel that I am growing up right along my children. I'm about 9 or 10 --- do I have to go through puberty again???LOL. Goodness, I hope not. If I'm only three, I've got a ways to go. Hmm, but does that mean I get to stay in therapy until my son is on his own?
Sorry for rambling. I guess I need to talk. Thanks for listening!
Laurie
Posted by daisym on February 24, 2006, at 15:36:04
In reply to Re: Separation anxiety » Annierose, posted by All Done on February 24, 2006, at 13:04:28
I think posting this here is perfect. I just wish there were books for 44 year olds, not just 4 year olds.
You know, one of the things that happens at 4 is that kids become really aware that they are small children in a big world. They are aware of their limitations, especially in controling their parents. They typically are so conflicted about wanting to be independent and live up to our expectations ("wow, 4, you are a big boy now") and wanting room to cling and fail. They are also really aware of their own agressive and negative impulses as being "bad" and may want you to help them control themselves -- and to keep them safe from the Other 4-year-olds. The other huge developmental task is "remembering to remember." We know kids can remember things, but they often "forget to remember." Which is why we often hear parents say, "why did you do that?! You know the cat doesn't like to take a bath!" The child looks at you and goes, "oh yeah." It typically isn't willful agression, it is forgetting to remember. At 4, kids really do begin to use recall from previous experiences. So he can remember to miss you each day. I think your solution of calling during the day is brilliant.
And it speaks to what my therapist is always telling me: "allowing yourself to touch base and feed the need will help lessen its power, not give it more power." I think as adults we are so busy struggling with the concept that the need itself is bad, we don't look for "easy" solutions to meet the need, like we would for a child.
I know all this...but boy is it hard to self-apply.
N is lucky to have you as a mom. And your therapist is lucky to have such an honest, open client. I'm glad you are chatty. Helps all of us, I think.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 24, 2006, at 16:21:38
In reply to Re: Separation anxiety » Annierose, posted by All Done on February 24, 2006, at 13:04:28
> Even though he was so accepting and receptive, I have a hard time believing it wasn't horrifying for him to hear. And I wondered if I put him in an awful position of having to come up with a response that wouldn't hurt me. I'm afraid I may have insulted him by questioning his authenticity. That said, I do trust him to be authentic. I just have such a hard time *accepting* it from him when it's any kind of positive regard for me.
I'm so glad you posted this. Just yesterday I had one of those sessions where I just talked around a lot of things. In part it was because I was still pretty sick. I told him upfront that my brain wasn't capable of handling intellectual stuff easily and I didn't want to get all emotional, because, well, I had enough congestion and yuck without getting all crying/snotty. (sorry for overshare...I tried to tone it down. Really I did.)
Anyway, I said something about wanting to maintain the connection to him even if I dind't feel like doing therapy that day. I had to reschedule my appt. from Monday to Thursday because actually we were both sick on Monday. And I didn't want to just wait til next Monday. Sigh. As soon as I said this, I started to cry. I really couldn't get to what exactly I was feeling. I know I work very hard to protect myself from whatever that feeling is. I consciously and unconsciously do this. I just don't like to think about my feelings for him in anything but superficial ways.
And I think what you wrote about fearing he was horrified and worrying that he had to struggle for an acceptable reaction...I think I worry about that, too. When he asked me why I was shying away from it, the first words out of my mouth were, "Fear of rejection." That sort of felt right, but it also felt too simplistic. I think your description of wanting to believe him to be authentic, but sort of twisting it yourself...that feels more like it with me, too. He did say once before that I seem to have a very hard time with "experiencing someone (him at the time) caring for me." I wish I could remember what he had said that was caring. D'oh! But I do remember almost immediately minimizing it and being self-deprecating.
Why do you think we have trouble with accepting that someone can care about us? And is there an "ick factor"? I know I actively run away from any "icky" thoughts/feelings related to my T. And I tell myself they aren't really that big of a deal, almost like I'm imagining them or it's just a fluke. (And really.....they're no big deal....right? Bah! See GG run away!)
It's so darned confusing. I know how hard this has been for you, and I want to join the others in saying, "Good job!" As Emmy would say, La La gets a biscuit!
And thanks for helping me think through some of my dilemma.
And btw, N is a very lucky little boy. His mommy loves him and makes sure he knows it.
(((((AllDone)))))
gg
>
Posted by fallsfall on February 24, 2006, at 17:23:03
In reply to Separation anxiety, posted by All Done on February 24, 2006, at 11:28:13
I find that when my children and I are experiencing the same thing that I can teach them what they need to know to move past it, but I still have trouble moving past it myself. They learn so much better than I do. I have found it really satisfying to teach them something that I'm learning in therapy. It makes me hope that they won't have the same pain that I do. I think that it also helps me to think about the issue - because I can look at it in my child from a distance.
But it sure does feel strange.
I like the phone call idea, it sounds like it is working well for both of you.
Posted by All Done on February 26, 2006, at 2:14:14
In reply to Re: Separation anxiety, posted by daisym on February 24, 2006, at 15:36:04
> I think posting this here is perfect. I just wish there were books for 44 year olds, not just 4 year olds.
Me too.
> You know, one of the things that happens at 4 is that kids become really aware that they are small children in a big world. They are aware of their limitations, especially in controling their parents. They typically are so conflicted about wanting to be independent and live up to our expectations ("wow, 4, you are a big boy now") and wanting room to cling and fail. They are also really aware of their own agressive and negative impulses as being "bad" and may want you to help them control themselves -- and to keep them safe from the Other 4-year-olds. The other huge developmental task is "remembering to remember." We know kids can remember things, but they often "forget to remember." Which is why we often hear parents say, "why did you do that?! You know the cat doesn't like to take a bath!" The child looks at you and goes, "oh yeah." It typically isn't willful agression, it is forgetting to remember. At 4, kids really do begin to use recall from previous experiences. So he can remember to miss you each day. I think your solution of calling during the day is brilliant.Thanks, Daisy. This is such great stuff. I've got some child psychology books on my wish list, but I've been trying to wade through all the other ones...you know, for me. I generally try to let N dictate when he's ready for his developmental milestones and such, but sometimes, I don't understand *why* he's where he's at. What you've said makes so much sense and really fits with his actions.
> And it speaks to what my therapist is always telling me: "allowing yourself to touch base and feed the need will help lessen its power, not give it more power." I think as adults we are so busy struggling with the concept that the need itself is bad, we don't look for "easy" solutions to meet the need, like we would for a child.
>
> I know all this...but boy is it hard to self-apply.No kidding. Well, you know how much I resist ever calling my T. Yet every once in awhile, I think just to hear his voice would help get me out of the awful cycles I get myself in.
> N is lucky to have you as a mom. And your therapist is lucky to have such an honest, open client. I'm glad you are chatty. Helps all of us, I think.Thanks again, Daisy. I think I'm going to tell my T just how lucky he is next time I see him. ;)
And thanks for reassuring me. I worry that I talk too much about myself. Then again, I worry about a lot of things.
Posted by All Done on February 26, 2006, at 2:33:15
In reply to Re: Separation anxiety » All Done, posted by gardenergirl on February 24, 2006, at 16:21:38
> I'm so glad you posted this. Just yesterday I had one of those sessions where I just talked around a lot of things. In part it was because I was still pretty sick. I told him upfront that my brain wasn't capable of handling intellectual stuff easily and I didn't want to get all emotional, because, well, I had enough congestion and yuck without getting all crying/snotty. (sorry for overshare...I tried to tone it down. Really I did.)
>
> Anyway, I said something about wanting to maintain the connection to him even if I dind't feel like doing therapy that day. I had to reschedule my appt. from Monday to Thursday because actually we were both sick on Monday. And I didn't want to just wait til next Monday. Sigh. As soon as I said this, I started to cry. I really couldn't get to what exactly I was feeling. I know I work very hard to protect myself from whatever that feeling is. I consciously and unconsciously do this. I just don't like to think about my feelings for him in anything but superficial ways.It really isn't easy to talk about. But, I can say, once I started, it got a lot easier. Now, I almost feel like I'm keeping a secret from him when I hesitate to tell him something about my feelings for him. It's important to talk about, I think. But I also understand the feeling of wanting to protect yourself. It's scary. :( Have you ever said anything to your T? How did he react, if you did?
> And I think what you wrote about fearing he was horrified and worrying that he had to struggle for an acceptable reaction...I think I worry about that, too. When he asked me why I was shying away from it, the first words out of my mouth were, "Fear of rejection." That sort of felt right, but it also felt too simplistic. I think your description of wanting to believe him to be authentic, but sort of twisting it yourself...that feels more like it with me, too. He did say once before that I seem to have a very hard time with "experiencing someone (him at the time) caring for me." I wish I could remember what he had said that was caring. D'oh! But I do remember almost immediately minimizing it and being self-deprecating.I do it all the time. I've even gotten frustrated with myself. I want to feel that others care for me or love me, but part of me immediately takes over and says there's no way that could be true. They're just being nice. If I do have the wits about me to argue with that feeling, I still never win. So, logically, I may hear what they're saying, but I resist the emotions.
> Why do you think we have trouble with accepting that someone can care about us? And is there an "ick factor"? I know I actively run away from any "icky" thoughts/feelings related to my T. And I tell myself they aren't really that big of a deal, almost like I'm imagining them or it's just a fluke. (And really.....they're no big deal....right? Bah! See GG run away!)Well, one theory I have about myself is that someone actively letting me know they care for me is sort of foreign to me. Because of my mom's history of abuse, she didn't "allow" my dad to show his caring and love in the typical ways a father can show love for his daughter. And, frankly, she is too narcissistic to really show anyone how much she cares or loves them. So, I didn't learn how to experience it and the only explanation for not getting it must have been that I wasn't worthy.
> It's so darned confusing. I know how hard this has been for you, and I want to join the others in saying, "Good job!" As Emmy would say, La La gets a biscuit!:-)
Where is Ms. Tofu, anyway? I miss her.
> And thanks for helping me think through some of my dilemma.Glad I could help.
> And btw, N is a very lucky little boy. His mommy loves him and makes sure he knows it.
>
> (((((AllDone)))))I can't seem to stop myself from letting him know I love him. :-)
(((((gg)))))
Posted by All Done on February 26, 2006, at 2:44:58
In reply to Re: Separation anxiety » All Done, posted by fallsfall on February 24, 2006, at 17:23:03
> I find that when my children and I are experiencing the same thing that I can teach them what they need to know to move past it, but I still have trouble moving past it myself. They learn so much better than I do. I have found it really satisfying to teach them something that I'm learning in therapy. It makes me hope that they won't have the same pain that I do. I think that it also helps me to think about the issue - because I can look at it in my child from a distance.
It's quite helpful for me. I have such a hard time putting my feelings into words so my T can understand. So, some of my best sessions occur when I start them by talking about something going on with my son.
> But it sure does feel strange.It feels very strange to me. But there's also something so familiar. I really do understand his pain and I know what his heart is feeling when I say, "I have to stop because of the time." I mean - "see you later, sweetie. I have to go to work, now." ;)
> I like the phone call idea, it sounds like it is working well for both of you.Seems to be working. It'll be interesting to see what happens this week while I'm in Tucson and his dad is doing the drop off at daycare. I'm still going to call him each day, though. Might be even more important.
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