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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 34. Go back in thread:
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:02:07
In reply to She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 8:58:42
she just called me back...saying that she has everyright to that file because i'm seeing her/her client, but that she hasn't read it yet and she gave me her word that she wouldn't until next wed when we can talk about it.
she was Very adamit about that she has right to that file!yes she is in the same practice as last T but does that give her rights like that?? to just take it?
i HATE THIS!!.
i feel like a little kid again, like she has power over me!
i HATE IT!!!! SHE HAS NOOOOOOO RIGHT TO MY BACKGROUND!!!!!!!!still so angry. sorry for yelling folks.
b2c.
Posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 10:09:47
In reply to She just called!-GG????, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:02:07
Can you tell her you fire her and there fore you are not her client therefore she has no right to your file?
Or do you want to give her a chance?
Can you grab a friend and go into the office?
Muffled
Posted by milly on February 2, 2006, at 10:13:45
In reply to She just called!-GG????, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:02:07
That really sucks, shouldn't she start with knowing nothing/very little and let you fill in what you want her to have WHEN you want her to have it?
She sounds very dogmatic and powercrazed, she shouldn't treat you like a child. I'd keep YELLING if I was you
milly
Posted by Dinah on February 2, 2006, at 10:23:06
In reply to She just called!-GG????, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:02:07
If you have the resources I'd call an attorney and find out if she's right. I actually don't think she is if you're in the US. My therapist sent me for auxiliary services with other members of his clinic and they both always made me sign.
I'd be furious too, with both therapists.
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:36:44
In reply to Re: She just called!-GG????, posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 10:09:47
other than stealing the file, that was my other thought. but if i did that i know she'd read it before she sealed it.
> Can you tell her you fire her and there fore you are not her client therefore she has no right to your file?
> Or do you want to give her a chance?
> Can you grab a friend and go into the office?
> Muffled
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:37:55
In reply to Re: She just called!-GG????, posted by milly on February 2, 2006, at 10:13:45
> That really sucks, shouldn't she start with knowing nothing/very little and let you fill in what you want her to have WHEN you want her to have it?
> She sounds very dogmatic and powercrazed, she shouldn't treat you like a child. I'd keep YELLING if I was youthat's exactly what i wanted to start from scratch with her...and i DO feel like she's treating me like a child...thanks for letting me yell.
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:43:58
In reply to Re: She just called!-GG???? » B2chica, posted by Dinah on February 2, 2006, at 10:23:06
i was thinking of doing this just to get a copy, since she said right away that i can't look at them...i can, i know i've heard that before...that we can look, the therapist can suggest that i not but if all else fails i could get a lawyer to supeona the records then i'd have a copy.
-I have a friend that used to work in healthcare billing, maybe she would know who i can call.and my last T specifically told me that he closed my old file so it could get sent away to storage and opened a new one for me...i'm assuming that way she could only access that one.
unfortunatly the whole time i was seeing him there was constant confusion between the office staff and him regarding appointments and such...so the staff could just not have been on the ball and not done it.
or he was pacifying me by saying that...but i really don't think he was.T2 says that she may talk with him this next week and hopefully he clears it up with her!
thanks
b2c.> If you have the resources I'd call an attorney and find out if she's right. I actually don't think she is if you're in the US. My therapist sent me for auxiliary services with other members of his clinic and they both always made me sign.
>
> I'd be furious too, with both therapists.
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:45:45
In reply to She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 8:58:42
in your practice...what's the low down? how does your filing system work?
does she have rights like she says. she's saying that now that file is hers.
b2c.
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 11:57:49
In reply to She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 8:58:42
ok, i found this online and it reassured me of my rights - especially the second paragraph... i need to sign a letter of release for her to see them!
Right to inspect and copy
-you have the right to inspect or obtain a coyp (or both) of PHI and psychotherapy notes in "clinicians" mental health and billing records used to make decisions about you for as long as the PHI is maintained in the record. "Clinicians" may deny your access to PHI under certain circumstances, but in some cases you may have this decision reviewed. On your request, clincians will discuss with you the details of the amendment process
Uses and disclosures requiring authorization-a clinician will also need to obtain an authorization BEFORE RELEASING YOUR PSYCHOTHERAPY NOTES. "phychotherapy notes" are notes the clinician has made about converstaions during a private group, joint, or family counseling session, which the clinician has kept separate from the rest of your medical record. These notes are given a greater degree of protection than PHI.
Posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 12:35:25
In reply to i found this...., posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 11:57:49
I still think it would be good if you actually went to the office with a friend as backup (witness) and see that the file is sealed with your own eyes. (how do they seal it?)
And to make it very clear to T2 that you not gonna take this crap sitting down. Your no fool, your responsible person. I would also write a letter (keep a copy for yourself) to the practice group about what happened.
This will help other more meek people not to get pushed around another time.
Thats my thots anyhow fwiw.
And if they won't do that, STEAL IT, and run like hell. Just to make a point. You can give it back after. Just say you had a bit of a 'moment', what with the stress of all this b*llshit.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 12:39:01
In reply to Re: i found this.... » B2chica, posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 12:35:25
Well.............. mebbe you better not steal it. I'm thinking they OWN it which is a whole nuther can of worms isn't it?
But you might end up having to goto court and having a record. If you already got one mebbe its not so bad. But if you gonna have kids and wanto do volunteer stuff they do criminal record checks...................
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by happyflower on February 2, 2006, at 13:12:54
In reply to Re:above. » muffled, posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 12:39:01
I would fire her on the spot, since it doesn't seem like you will ever be able to trust her, I wouldn't. Then I would try to find somebody else to see that is not in the same office. ((((((B2))))
Posted by fairywings on February 2, 2006, at 13:30:29
In reply to She just called!-GG????, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 10:02:07
call her back and tell her she's fired, and to keep her hands off your file, or you'll sue her.
Since you have a right to it, put in the paperwork to get ahold of it, and find yourself a t who'll respect your wishes.fw
Posted by Racer on February 2, 2006, at 13:34:38
In reply to She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 8:58:42
I, too, would be absolutely LIVID. And that sounds as though she may have some pretty heavy problems of her own, too, if she had your file on her desk even knowing that you'd specifically asked that this be a fresh start. That sounds like baiting.
Also, that you feel as hough she's trying to say what you want to hear, rather than being genuine -- no wonder you don't trust her. (I had that: An intern asked me what she had to do to make me trust her? Uh, if I have to tell you how to do it, then I *can't* trust you...)
As for HIPAA, I think if they're in the same practice, it might be different -- and I think it's also different if either is an intern. (Dunno your situation.) I would say, though, that HIPAA really doesn't matter nearly as much as the fact that they would not respect your wishes in this matter. Now, I can understand why she wanted your file, and just from reading your posts I would bet that she's already read that file, and had read a good bit of it before your first session, but you had specifically requested that you be seen without her having your file.
And don't pay much attention to me -- I've had some bad experiences, and so I am very suspicious about therapists.
The bottom line that I see, though -- and I don't say that it is valid at all -- is that you've gotten off to a very, very bad start, and you're gonna have such an uphill battle to get anywhere towards trusting her, that I would probably request another transfer. Ask for another therapist in the same practice, or just go elsewhere. Within the same practice, they may not need a signed release. That's something you can check out. But outside that practice, there's no question.
If you have any trouble getting a transfer within the practice, or there are problems with the center itself and you have to stay with them anyway, babblemail me and I'll tell you more about my story with that.
Best luck, and I'm both sorry that this happened to you and furious on your behalf.
Posted by wishingstar on February 2, 2006, at 13:50:04
In reply to Re: She just called!-GG???? » B2chica, posted by fairywings on February 2, 2006, at 13:30:29
Everyone has sort of aleady said this, but I just wanted to agree..
I am a psych grad student who has done a lot of work in mental health settings, where we are trained in HIPAA, ethics, etc.. and what everyone has said is correct. Your new T is absolutely WRONG.. she does not have a right to anything just by virtue of being your therapist. Can you imagine if that were the case? Shed be able to call your family, spouse, children, etc and get any information she wanted.. no way.
If I were you, I'd drop this T immediately. She is obviously either manipulative or clueless when it comes to ethics guidelines. If it were me, I'd have a hard time ever trusting her in the future.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this!
Posted by wishingstar on February 2, 2006, at 13:57:24
In reply to Re: i found this.... » B2chica, posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 12:35:25
When I worked in a local counseling agency, "sealed" wasnt really a literal thing. It could be different at other places, but in my experience, it just means that theyre closed and put into storage, often in the same building somewhere. It's nothing youd be able to see by looking at it. I guess it's sort of a trust game in a way.. scary.
Also, you can definitely request to see your files.. but they wont just hand them over to you. Usually someone has to go through it first. You dont get to see everything - generally no actually therapy notes (what the therapist uses to remind themselves, etc), just the dry, clinical stuff. Personally, I'd rather see the detailed notes.. but oh well. So be careful about just stealing it.. even though you do have access to your file, you might get yourself in trouble this way.
Posted by LadyBug on February 2, 2006, at 14:54:07
In reply to i found this...., posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 11:57:49
I think your right on with this information. I had to sign a release form for My T. who was working with me at a time when my spouse was working with a different T. so that they could exchange information between the two of them.
I would go to her office right away and ask for my file and tell her you'll bring it back when you decide to and that might be never!!!!! I'd be fumming mad!!!
LadyBug
Posted by gardenergirl on February 2, 2006, at 15:49:55
In reply to Re: She just called!-GG????, posted by wishingstar on February 2, 2006, at 13:50:04
Sorry I haven't been around.
Regarding whether she has the right to the file....it's sticky because she's in the same agency. If they are an agency or group practice, you may not "need" to sign a consent for release of information for your chart to go to her. Where I worked last, when someone was transferred, the chart transferred.
However, you specifically told your old T, who has now left the agency, that you did not want her to get it. I don't know if that "counts" or not. I wish I had a clear answer for you. I think ethically, she should have abided by your request, even if she has a legal right to the chart.
Regarding your right to the chart....yes, HIPAA gives you the right to see it, but clinicians can decide not to share certain info if they believe it could harm you to know it. State laws vary, though. In my state, the client has the right to see the entire record, regardless of whether the clinician thinks it might be harmful to the client. Any state law that gives the client more protection and rights than HIPAA supercedes HIPAA.
I know this is clear as mud.
I'm glad she called you and agreed not to read it before you meet. Of course you have to trust her on that. And like others said, if you fire her, it sort of solves that problem, although I suppose she may still read it and just not tell you.
Okay, just tried one site...and found this on a fact sheet:
You Have the Right to:
Ask that your information not be shared
You can ask your provider or health insurer not to share your health information
with certain people, groups, or companies. For example, if you go to a clinic,
you could ask the doctor not to share your medical record with other doctors or
nurses in the clinic. However, they do not have to agree to do what you ask.Frankly, I don't know what that means that you have the right to ask but they can say no.
Here's where it says you can get more info:
For more information
This is a brief summary of your
rights and protections under the
federal health information privacy
law. You can ask your provider or
health insurer questions about how
your health information is used or
shared and about your rights. You
also can learn more, including how
to file a complaint with the U.S.
Government, at the website at
www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/
or by calling 1-866-627-7748;
the phone call is free.Sorry I can't be of more help.
gg
Posted by ghost on February 2, 2006, at 15:50:08
In reply to Re:above. » muffled, posted by muffled on February 2, 2006, at 12:39:01
if i were you, i'd tell that T where to get off. you have every right to be pissed. and i wouldnt trust her either. she sounds like she might have an attitude.
when i go to my regular doctor, but i don't see my regular doctor, the person i see always has my file. they can read whatever is in there. because they're at the same practice. i'm pretty sure that the release i signed when i first started going there allows any doctor *in the practice* access to my file. i think that therapy has the same rules. that said, i'm not sure how old T could have said that your records were sealed and put into storage. i'm thinking maybe he DID do that, and new T saw a skinny empty file and thought "hm, where's the rest?" and went and got the old one out of storage. just a hunch.
anyhow, that said, i'm thinking if you really want to start fresh with someone, you're going to have to go to a totally new practice and start over. in order for a new practice to get your old records, THEN you'd have to sign a waiver that they be allowed to get them. in that case, you can refuse to sign. i've done this with some previous doctors and therapists. i've either said "i'll think about it and mail it back to you" (i'm so non-confrontational) or just not signed it and slipped it in with the other paperwork. once i lied and said i'd never seen anyone before. but i really think that anyone in that practice/office has a right to access files, because usually the forms you sign don't have a specific caregiver's name on them, they have the whole practice/office's name on them.
i hope you get this straightened out, because i don't know how you can stand it. i'd be livid. plus, to be honest, once i saw that she had my file when she wasnt supposed to, that'd cut off any potential for trust. but that's just me-- i lose trust pretty easily.
i'm happy to hear you're going to try for a baby! that's exciting. better you than me ;) i agree that you're going to need lots of support soon! i hope you find someone good.
hugs and love,
ghost
Posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 15:57:57
In reply to Re: i found this.... » B2chica, posted by LadyBug on February 2, 2006, at 14:54:07
thank you all so terribly much!
you are awesome. i've never gotten so much support. i think i'll take your advice (though i want to run off with it, i'll try not to) but i will hash this out with her next wednesday when we meet, if she is adamit about keeping the file without my permission or signature i will drop her flat. like one of you said, she's not respecting my wishes. and what's the point of starting fresh if she already has that stupid file!! stupid is as stupid does! (sorry, still venting)i'll let you all know how it turns out.
it's bad enough i had to say all that stuff but for someone to easily get their hands on that is not right. and to be so arrogant about it is worse. i will NOT let her have any kind of power over me!!!!!!!!!!!
Especially not now that i got stuff out.Thanks again.
love
b2c.
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on February 2, 2006, at 15:59:36
In reply to She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 8:58:42
I didn't read all of the replies, so someone might have said this already, but if they are working in the same clinic they can consult and share info. I suspect that this applies to professionals that work in the same practice as well.
It's funny b/c I was on the other side of this...I was taking on a client who had seen a T in our clinic who was graduating. As a matter of course, I obtained his file. I would say that in this context, obtaining files is something that is largely accepted. Like a medical record. But if the patient doesn't want the new T to see it (perfectly okay), then someone needs to tell the T so that they don't get the file.
Now, back to my story...so when I met with the client for the 1st time he told me that he really didn't want me to read the file (for similar reasons to what you have mentioned). I promised him that I would respect his wishes. When I shared this w/ my supervisor, he seemed annoyed and didn't understand why I would agree to that.
I hung on to the file and did not read it right away. Eventually, my client became quite ill and had a poor grasp on reality. At that time I did read the file in order to help his treatment. I was able to speak to his new pdoc and tell pdoc that my client was exhibiting some very severe symptoms and he had not had these problems before (which I knew b/c I had the file). I do believe that having the info helped his treatment.
This is a really rough situation. I do think that the T has the legal right to look at the file. But just b/c she wasn't breaking the law doesn't mean that she should do it. Do you like her in general? If not, perhaps this is a sign that you should look for a new T. If you want to stick with her, perhaps you could make an agreement that she won't read the file until a certain point in time--maybe like 1 month
I totally understand why you would be extremely mad at the new T. But, I think it might help you to address this situation if you remind yourself that T made this decision in order to best help you. It wasn't that she wanted to be nosey. Perhaps reminding yourself of that could help you talk to her abt the issue so that she will hear you and not just react to your anger.
Take care. I'm going to read the rest of the thread now. Hope I didn't repeat too much of what others said.
Best,
EE
Posted by gardenergirl on February 2, 2006, at 16:01:51
In reply to to all..., posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 15:57:57
Just another thought....Because in my state, clients can see the entire record, and the physicians and nurses can also see the termination summaries and/or assessment reports in the charts, I tend to avoid writing specific content, particularly about sensitive issues such as abuse.
I tend to be more vague, since I cannot control who will see the information, and in the large healthcare clinic where I worked, there were lots of folks with legitimate access to the chart. My psychotherapy notes were separate, of course, but they could always be requested by the client and/or subpoena'd by the court.
So maybe, just maybe, your T did not write a lot of specific info about what you disclosed?
Keeping my fingers crossed for you...
gg
Posted by madeline on February 2, 2006, at 17:03:27
In reply to hipaa????, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 9:14:13
Hippa does not prevent the transfer of files etc... if the two doctor's deem the files to be medically necessary. Evidentally they did.
If this were me, I would be very mad - tempted to the point of taking action action one or both docs however.
This IS your file.
Posted by rubenstein on February 2, 2006, at 19:30:18
In reply to She HAS MY FILE, help!!!!, posted by B2chica on February 2, 2006, at 8:58:42
that would make me so nervous and mad too. I am so sorry, trust would be such an issue with me if that happened. Why does she have the right to view those records.... isn't patient therapist confidentiality there for a reason. Hugs to you.....
rachel
Posted by Phillipa on February 2, 2006, at 21:39:01
In reply to Re:above., posted by happyflower on February 2, 2006, at 13:12:54
Happyflower right on target Bchica2 get a new T somewhere else you can't trust this practice. Fondly, Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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