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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JackD on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:48
A third party (undisclosed to me, though I know it is a friend of mine) called my doctor and intentionally misinformed him that I abuse illicity substances. Now he refuses to prescribe me my medications, accuses me of abusing my antidepressants, hangs up the phone on me, and is requesting mandatory urine screenings. If anyone could help me fight this somehow (I am of course DRUG-FREE), or know the general legality of my doctor behaving in such a drastic and unprofessional manner based on one random phone call from someone he doesn't even know (not a family member), I'd greatly appreciate it.
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:48
In reply to Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by JackD on May 11, 2005, at 8:48:16
> A third party (undisclosed to me, though I know it is a friend of mine) called my doctor and intentionally misinformed him that I abuse illicity substances. Now he refuses to prescribe me my medications, accuses me of abusing my antidepressants, hangs up the phone on me, and is requesting mandatory urine screenings. If anyone could help me fight this somehow (I am of course DRUG-FREE), or know the general legality of my doctor behaving in such a drastic and unprofessional manner based on one random phone call from someone he doesn't even know (not a family member), I'd greatly appreciate it.
That is so out of line of your friend! How do you know? did your doc say that he got a call? Has he cut you off cold turkey? is this a pdoc?
I think if I were you I would go to another doctor who knows you and and explain the situation. you need to be prepared to back up any accusations that were made and have a good reason... I would think to anything that this friend has made up or said.
Another suggestion would be to discuss it with the suspected source...even if they are denying it, I would explain to them what a negative effect this is having on you.
What an awful situation to be in.About confidentiality, from my expreience of often having to call someones pdoc (its justified)..they will take what the person tells them and I think they are actually allowed to take the call and hear what the person has to say but they are in NO way allowed to say anything back to them that may breach the patients confidentiality. But each doc is differnet and I would guess they do with the info what they see fit. I have had it completely ignored and had it welcomed.
But from what you have described I unfortuanately dont think there was any confidentiality broken...I am not positive about this though. Only if the doctor reached out and it was done in a non emergency situation would the confidentiality be an issue (from my experience) and if the doc did not inform you of the phone call.
Sorry if I am goiing in circles. I think your best bet would be to get to another doctor. It is unprofessional for a doc to hang up on a patient (unless they are harrassing or something) or to refuse the necessary drugs.
There is nothing worse than being accused of something that is completely false.the other thing would be to just tell your doc how you feel, Im assuming betrayed etc and then say you will do the drug screens but have lost all faith in him/her. Let them know and prove them wrong...that is always a good feeling.
i hope it gets worked out.
Good luck
rain
Posted by anneL on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:48
In reply to Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by JackD on May 11, 2005, at 8:48:16
Sounds like a case of "He says, She says". . .
You have choices and I hope you choose not to feel victimized. You have clearly been given an option - submit to urine screening or find another doctor. Sometimes it is easier to bend like a willow tree than fight the good fight. Besides when your urine comes back clean this will end the debate.
Posted by JackD on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:48
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality » JackD, posted by anneL on May 11, 2005, at 11:21:52
Thanks guys :)
Posted by Phillipa on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:49
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by JackD on May 11, 2005, at 14:05:04
I agree with the above posts. But wouldn't this be considered heresay in a court of law? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by vivi on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:49
In reply to Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by JackD on May 11, 2005, at 8:48:16
> A third party (undisclosed to me, though I know it is a friend of mine) called my doctor and intentionally misinformed him that I abuse illicity substances. Now he refuses to prescribe me my medications, accuses me of abusing my antidepressants, hangs up the phone on me, and is requesting mandatory urine screenings. If anyone could help me fight this somehow (I am of course DRUG-FREE), or know the general legality of my doctor behaving in such a drastic and unprofessional manner based on one random phone call from someone he doesn't even know (not a family member), I'd greatly appreciate it.
That is terrible! Of course if your pdoc gets a call from a concerned friend he should listen, but JUST LISTEN. Sounds like he has made preconceived notions about you. In a sense you have been slandered and that would hold up in court. If his notes he has on you could be subpeoned. That could end all that. During the interim see another doc and let him know whats going on.
Also talk to you so-called friend. Even if he says he didn't say those things: Omissions are betrayals.
Posted by Racer on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:49
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by vivi on May 11, 2005, at 21:12:14
Have you considered requesting your chart? You have the right -- at least in the US -- to request your chart and read it. If you do that, maybe you'll find out what's really going on?
Here's a question for you: how do you KNOW that someone called and said these things? Did your doctor tell you? And did you ask why your doctor is placing so much credence on an apparently anonymous telephone call, making unsupported accusations?
If it's an option, I would certainly advise you to change doctors. And I would also advise that you report this behavior to the state licensing board. They won't actually do anything much, in all probability, but it's still worth the effort.
Good luck.
Posted by JackD on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:49
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by Racer on May 12, 2005, at 13:31:09
Should I contact a lawyer? Is he liable for slander? What about malpractice (he hangs up on my calls, and acts extremely rude). My doctor had absolutely no reason or proof that I he should place so much credence on the call/s, and I have reason to believe it may have been my sister in fact from overseas. I am definitely changing doctors! I know someone called because he suddenly called me and requested to see me, told me "a friend" called yet refused to tell me who, and also is now requiring urine tests. I live in New York.
Posted by Racer on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:49
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by JackD on May 12, 2005, at 14:49:38
> Should I contact a lawyer? Is he liable for slander? What about malpractice (he hangs up on my calls, and acts extremely rude). My doctor had absolutely no reason or proof that I he should place so much credence on the call/s, and I have reason to believe it may have been my sister in fact from overseas. I am definitely changing doctors! I know someone called because he suddenly called me and requested to see me, told me "a friend" called yet refused to tell me who, and also is now requiring urine tests. I live in New York.
Jack, you could consult an attorney, but here's a question: why? What benefit would that bring you?
That's the question I had to ask myself after a really bad experience with a doctor. My answer, which is only my answer for myself, was that suing would only make the trauma drag on. Reporting him to the licensing board, on the other hand...
In my case, I figured that it was very unlikely I'd really want to go through what I'd have to go through if I were to sue. And the idea of having some attorney question me about my mental illness? No way.
Getting another doctor, telling that new doctor what happened with this one, possibly reporting this behavior to the state board, and then working with your sister to resolve whatever it is that caused her to do this -- IF she's the one who called -- so that it doesn't happen again. Those would be my recommendations, if I were to recommend anything.
The benefit, for me, of a complaint to the medical licensing board is that I complain, and then they do whatever they do. I don't have to be involved anymore, beyond telling an investigator the story -- if htat, since most complaints aren't really followed up from what I've read. But it's OVER for me. And, while he may, eventually, have to justify his behavior, it won't be a he said/she said sort of thing. It will be a "Hey, uh, buddy? We've determined that you, uh, screwed up. Wanna tell us about it?" Much more satisfying from my point of view, that the spotlight will be on his behavior, and he won't be able to shift the focus onto me.
Now, again, that's me. Those are the thought processes behind the decisions I made for myself. I'm only offering them to show you one set of options.
By the way, did the doctor say anything about *why* he would put so much credence into a report from someone other than you? Did he tell you *why* he wasn't listening to you? Or was this just a "You Will Behave" sort of thing? Just curious.
Posted by JackD on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:49
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality » JackD, posted by Racer on May 12, 2005, at 18:04:37
No he didn't mention why he would listen to the person who called. He's just very shrewd, and condescending and generally dislikes me (and thinks I'm naive).
Today I spoke with a friend, a girlfriend of mine who called to speak to him and vouch for me, and she told me that he divulged ALL of my information to him, and on top of that accused me to her of being a drug addict and abusing my medications. His only evidence of this is that on several occasions my antidepressant scripts have been asked to be filled a few days early several months in a row (i'm not perfect about counting out exactly how many pills there are, but who would abuse an antidepressant??? it's ridiculous, and humiliating).
By the way, I don't have any history of drug abuse on record, nor of violent or any other such behavior (or psychosis). I don't have ANY criminal record too. All pluses for me.
So what board exactly do I contact? And should I even bother? You guys have been a big help, today I faxed and mailed a letter requesting my chart and all pertinent information, which I think scared the sh*t out of him!
Posted by Phillipa on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:49
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality » JackD, posted by Racer on May 12, 2005, at 18:04:37
Racer, This is the first time that I disagree with you to some extent. I feel he should contact an attorney and let him know what happened. That way he can advise him of who and how to contact the AMA licensing bureau. He can also do an MD search on www.choicetrust.com. You do have to pay for the information but it will tell you if he has any pending lawsuits, his credentials, etc. It's not that expensive. That way he will know which way to proceed. Maybe he wouldn't even need that lawyer if something turns up. The problem of going to a new pdoc and telling him what happened is not always believed by the new pdoc. That is unfortunate. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by vivi on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:49
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by JackD on May 12, 2005, at 18:11:03
> No he didn't mention why he would listen to the person who called. He's just very shrewd, and condescending and generally dislikes me (and thinks I'm naive).
>
> Today I spoke with a friend, a girlfriend of mine who called to speak to him and vouch for me, and she told me that he divulged ALL of my information to him, and on top of that accused me to her of being a drug addict and abusing my medications. His only evidence of this is that on several occasions my antidepressant scripts have been asked to be filled a few days early several months in a row (i'm not perfect about counting out exactly how many pills there are, but who would abuse an antidepressant??? it's ridiculous, and humiliating).
>
> By the way, I don't have any history of drug abuse on record, nor of violent or any other such behavior (or psychosis). I don't have ANY criminal record too. All pluses for me.
>
> So what board exactly do I contact? And should I even bother? You guys have been a big help, today I faxed and mailed a letter requesting my chart and all pertinent information, which I think scared the sh*t out of him!
There you go....You now have someone that can verify that he divulged information about you AGAIN. That is so unprofessional. Doctors should know that soemtimes people call in for a refill a few days early in case there is a problem at the Pharmacy, i.e. meds out of stock, insurance problems, etc.. I would contact an Attorney because many times the first consultation is free and they will be able to determine if you have a case. Yes, it is slander and you could contact the Better Business Beraeu (sp) Is your Doctor in a practice by himself? If so you could ask to speak with the Office Manager about the Licensing board in your area.
Viv
Posted by blondemomints on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:49
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality » JackD, posted by vivi on May 12, 2005, at 18:45:08
Hi there,
Just a bit of info on Doctor/patient confiential records. There is a law that was enacted many years ago but only in the last year that has become MANDATORY, it's called HIPPA! HIPPA protects you from breech of confidential information being given out to ANYONE without your written consent first. (This would exclude lawsuits for pending suits).
I know in our medial practice, we remind the patients who are listed as having permission to receive information on their behalf. In case someone needs to add or delete (marriage, divorce, etc) a person.
And yes, YOU are entitled to a copy of your medical chart by request of course. You will need to sign a consent form to have the records copied and sent to you; which by the way there may a be a fee included....depends on the physician.
First of all, YOU must contact the physician and tell him of the allegations being made against him or his staff (he may not be aware of a suspect staff member who is doing this). If you do not feel comfortable with the answers you receive tell him you feel you have no alternative than to report him to the Medical Board in his state for violation of HIPPA laws.
Hope this helps some. God Bless You!
Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:49
In reply to Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by JackD on May 11, 2005, at 8:48:16
I had the reverse happen: The first shrink I ever saw told my mom I was abusing drugs (which I was doing because I was trying to cope with the depression and agoraphobia I was experiencing!). My parents flipped out, and took away the 60mg/day Ritalin I had used for YEARS previously (from age 16-21) for ADD symptoms but unbeknownst to me it was almost medicating the double depression I Was in (I didn't even know I was dysthymic at the time). The withdrawal from that--which I never abused--worsened my depression, and sent me into a downward spiral that I just recovered from fully, oh, about 4 weeks ago, though from around 8/2004 onward tranylcypromine gave me partial remission at around 80mg/day, getting somewhat better at 120mg/day . NOTE: I am 25 now.
Confidentiality should be respected more than it often is. Your shrink has a contract to treat YOU; what anyone says to your shrink about you is irrelevant. What you are experiencing now is drug-war hysteria that I have had to deal with ever since being labelled a drug abuser years ago. Of course, when the Ritalin was withdrawn, my depression got so bad that I did abuse drugs to kill the pain. Then I got into a pattern of doing that, forgot what I was medicating, and seemed like I was just waiting around to die after a certain point ...
After the MPH was withdrawn, the stupid shrink put me on Effexor, which made me so apathetic and numb that I felt no qualms about smoking pot 24/7, which previously would make me paranoid and uncomfortable if I smoked too much. Man, I gotta stop recalling this, it hurts. I am just so glad that I came back into the light and am on medications that actually help instead of hurt me.
How many people on this board have experienced or heard of SSRI-induced substance abuse? Hmm ...
I still wish that I could take amphetamine for my ADD-like symptoms sometimes, but I Am effectively blacklisted from that as a "substance abuser"--until I get enough money to hire a private shrink, of course. The whole system is just totally twisted sometimes. Best of luck with your plight; I wish I had a suggestion.
Posted by Phillipa on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:49
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by blondemomints on May 12, 2005, at 20:42:46
You're l00percent correct! I'd forgotten about that new Hippa. I get so tired of signing that form. And my old pdoc wouldn't release my records to me even with the money he charged unless it went to another pdoc. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Racer on May 12, 2005, at 23:11:50
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by JackD on May 12, 2005, at 18:11:03
> No he didn't mention why he would listen to the person who called. He's just very shrewd, and condescending and generally dislikes me (and thinks I'm naive).
>
> Today I spoke with a friend, a girlfriend of mine who called to speak to him and vouch for me, and she told me that he divulged ALL of my information to him, and on top of that accused me to her of being a drug addict and abusing my medications. His only evidence of this is that on several occasions my antidepressant scripts have been asked to be filled a few days early several months in a row (i'm not perfect about counting out exactly how many pills there are, but who would abuse an antidepressant??? it's ridiculous, and humiliating).
>
> By the way, I don't have any history of drug abuse on record, nor of violent or any other such behavior (or psychosis). I don't have ANY criminal record too. All pluses for me.
>
> So what board exactly do I contact? And should I even bother? You guys have been a big help, today I faxed and mailed a letter requesting my chart and all pertinent information, which I think scared the sh*t out of him!OK, now that you've told us all this, he is clearly in violation of federal laws regarding confidentiality. You should certainly report him.
Phillipa is right that an attorney can help you with the paperwork to report him. I'd recommend that you check your county's health department or mental health department, because often there are non-profit law firms or attorneys around who take on this sort of thing pro-bono. Save you a hell of a lot of grief, and money.
Go to it. I forget where you find the information about the law, but you should be able to google it.
Good luck, and feel free to babblemail if you like. May take a few days to answer, but at least I've done some of this myself.
Posted by JenStar on May 13, 2005, at 0:00:22
In reply to Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by JackD on May 11, 2005, at 8:48:16
hi Jack,
it sounds like a difficult situation! It somehow feels, though, that there's some information missing. Did you use illicit drugs in the past, and are now clean? Have you ever abused prescription meds with this doctor?I guess I'm asking if there is any reason at all for the doctor to trust an unnamed source over you?
If there have been issues in the past but NOW you're clean & doing the right thing, it might be a good idea to get the urine test & talk frankly to your doctor about the situation and ask for a second chance. Going to another doctor won't be a total solution, b/c your charts will go too, along with whatever info this doc wrote in there. So you probably need to clear it up with him to some degree.
I think that if you report the doctor, they will investigate you too, in order to determine the veracity of your complaint and the issues your doctor has with you & the drugs. So I think it would be important to ensure total honesty with him when you have any discussions.
I wish you the best of luck. Please tell us how it turns out.
JenStar
Posted by sunny10 on May 13, 2005, at 8:38:45
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality » JackD, posted by JenStar on May 13, 2005, at 0:00:22
I think JenStar has a point. If you do all that is requested of you by the doc (get that urine test), you are showing full cooperation ESPECIALLY if you should decide to sue...
You will be able to PROVE that you are not a drug-addict and your case will be taken more seriously!!
Posted by JackD on May 13, 2005, at 15:55:33
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by sunny10 on May 13, 2005, at 8:38:45
Thank all you, big big help. I'm still looking for an attorney, and just what "medical board" to contact. He's stopped responding to my calls after I told him I have someone who will testify about his crime, and mailed a written, signed letter requesting my charts. I don't have a history of drug abuse on record persay, although I'm sure it's in my chart that I've occasionally used recreational drugs and have had problems with alcohol (but nothing serious). I'll look into taking the urine screens, though I did take the first one he requested and it came up negative.
Posted by Susan47 on May 14, 2005, at 13:14:30
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by JackD on May 13, 2005, at 15:55:33
If your doctor told your girlfriend, as it sounds like he did, information about you, he breached confidentiality and he's losing his marbles, he needs some professional help.
Posted by Susan47 on May 14, 2005, at 13:24:20
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by JackD on May 13, 2005, at 15:55:33
I'd be tempted to call around to everyone I suspect might've called him, no matter how painful that is; surely there must be only one or two persons who would do such a thing. First of all, it must be someone with a motive.
Who would be motivated to do such a thing and who would even know so much about you that they could convince a doctor to behave in this way? Did you do anything at all that could make him angry with you, because he's behaving like someone who's angry, really unprofessional. I've had fears like this about my own doctor, a woman who is very puffed up in her self-importance, someone who really takes pride in seeing herself as steadfast and reliable, but actually someone who can't be trusted, someone who doesn't trust others.
What you're talking about is one of my deepest fears; betrayal by the medical profession. People who know more about you than anybody else, and people who can use their knowledge to hurt you unnecessarily.
Doctors do it. They do it all the time.
Sometimes they don't understand
their own hallucinatory ways of thinking.
And it's up to your instinct, sometimes
it's our intuition
that leads us to the truth.
Intuition is our subconscious
experience
speaking.
I wish I listened to mine more often.
Posted by Jazzed on May 15, 2005, at 14:13:49
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by Racer on May 12, 2005, at 13:31:09
I agree with this, and BTW this is YOUR doctor, not some annonymous person's doctor. You're paying him, so why is he getting information from elsewhere? I'd drop him like a hot rock, but tell him why first. If it's too hard to do in person, tell him in a letter.
Jazzed
Posted by Jazzed on May 15, 2005, at 14:16:37
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by Phillipa on May 12, 2005, at 18:40:28
> Racer, This is the first time that I disagree with you to some extent. I feel he should contact an attorney and let him know what happened. That way he can advise him of who and how to contact the AMA licensing bureau. He can also do an MD search on www.choicetrust.com. You do have to pay for the information but it will tell you if he has any pending lawsuits, his credentials, etc. It's not that expensive. That way he will know which way to proceed. Maybe he wouldn't even need that lawyer if something turns up. The problem of going to a new pdoc and telling him what happened is not always believed by the new pdoc. That is unfortunate. Fondly, Phillipa
You can usually get info about charges on the internet through the state medical board, or state licensing board.
Jazz
Posted by Minnie-Haha on May 16, 2005, at 14:21:25
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by blondemomints on May 12, 2005, at 20:42:46
> Just a bit of info on Doctor/patient confiential records. There is a law that was enacted many years ago but only in the last year that has become MANDATORY, it's called HIPPA! HIPPA protects you from breech of confidential information being given out to ANYONE without your written consent first.
I vote with anneL and blondemomints. First, anneL's advice to let it go, and let your clean urine speak for itself, might be a good way to go... especially if you're likely to let this thing consume you. On the other hand, if you want to do something, get up on the HIPAA laws at http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/ and then see at least how to report a grievance to whatever agency oversees doctors in your state.
Posted by Minnie-Haha on May 16, 2005, at 14:23:50
In reply to Re: Doctor/Patient Confidentiality, posted by Minnie-Haha on May 16, 2005, at 14:21:25
In fact that site has info on how to file a health information privacy complaint with the office for civil rights http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacyhowtofile.htm
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