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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by thewrite1 on May 2, 2005, at 22:37:45
In reply to How do you talk about sex?, posted by crushedout on May 2, 2005, at 20:41:04
It's taken a long time and still sometimes I have to make it a phone session 'cause I just can't stand the thought that she's looking at me. I never ever use vulgar terms. I think that would be disrespectful to my T. Fantasies I've talked about, and sex dreams, but mostly just the ones involving her. I think a couple of times I've talked about other ones, but only if I thought there was something to it and it wasn't just a sex dream or whatever. BUT my trust in her is solid as a rock. There's still some things I haven't been able to talk to her about, but it has nothing to do with her, more to do with my own shame or fear.
Posted by Shortelise on May 2, 2005, at 23:23:09
In reply to How do you talk about sex?, posted by crushedout on May 2, 2005, at 20:41:04
I'll be talking about sex with my T in explicit terms about the same time I sprout wings and fly around the neighbourhood with the eagles.
ShortE
Posted by daisym on May 3, 2005, at 0:08:42
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » crushedout, posted by Shortelise on May 2, 2005, at 23:23:09
I'm shocked at the above answers...REALLY? You've haven't talked about it?
Not that it is easy. And I can see how it might not be important to some therapies. I guess if you have the issues I have, it has to be part of the equation. We've talked about orgasm (or lack there of), medication effects on erections, things I hate to do, why sex is so important to men, etc. etc. I think I told my therapist that I needed to talk about sex because the work we were doing was effecting things and he proceeded to gently bring it up the next time, asking questions in such a frank, expectant way (can you reach orgasm if you masterbate?) that I got over being embarrassed pretty quickly. I squirm a little when I think about it afterward, but he always checks in (is this OK to be talking about?) and will stop if I float away.
Hmmm...interesting. I have a much harder time talking about the csa stuff or about verbal fights with my husband. I find those really embarrassing for some reason.
Posted by tom_traubert on May 3, 2005, at 0:28:44
In reply to How do you talk about sex?, posted by crushedout on May 2, 2005, at 20:41:04
Embarassment should not be on the radar of any qualified therapist. If you're embarassed, that's one thing, but a therapist who squirms when explicitly talking about sex shouldn't be talking about anything else involved with the human experience. They've heard it all, trust me.
More importantly, therapy is a goal-based activity. Why do you want to talk about sex to your therapist? And why not? What purpose does it serve to talk about it/What purpose does it serve to avoid it? Maybe it's just me, but I think sexuality is a giant topic, inexorably tied into who we are, and a natural part of the whole picture of our selves.
Don't worry about how you should talk about sex, just convey that you think it's important and would like to talk about it and your therapist should guide you the rest of the way.
my two cents,
tt
Posted by gardenergirl on May 3, 2005, at 1:28:49
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex?, posted by tom_traubert on May 3, 2005, at 0:28:44
I am always feeling very embarrassed at first, especially if I start getting very specific. I also blush very very easily (darn that pale skin), so I get a bit self-conscious about that. I usually acknowledge my embarrassment to him , which seems to make it easier.
I don't use vulgar words for parts or acts because I don't tend to use them IRL. (I'm such a goody two shoes kind of gal). So I tend to use anatomical language if necessary, but I haven't needed to that much. It's more acts and feelings that I've talked about. And fantasies. Oh lord, I told him my fantasies or at least the general theme to them. I can't believe I did that, and at times when he has brought them up again to make a point (because the theme of them fits with a more global way of acting for me), it's always more than a little embarrassing.
I want to say, "I can't believe you just said that!" And it feels very very personal and intimate. But he is always very respectful and safe about it. He definitely handles it very well and helps me handle my embarrassment, too.
But oh lord, I can't believe I talk about it at times.
gg
Posted by Tamar on May 3, 2005, at 4:37:58
In reply to How do you talk about sex?, posted by crushedout on May 2, 2005, at 20:41:04
I’ve talked about sex with my T and I was very embarrassed. I’m not at all embarrassed to talk about sex with my friends, but I felt the problem in therapy was the professional context. Usually when I talk about sex socially I use vulgar language and a rather jokey/flirtatious manner. But I really didn’t want to come across as flirtatious with my T!
I used some vulgar language in therapy, because I really hate the clinical terms. More often I would use euphemisms and hope that he knew what I meant! He never asked for clarification, so I can only hope that he got my point.
He didn’t bat an eyelid at anything I said. And the more often I talked about it, the easier it got. I just got used to it. I came to trust him not to react negatively, because he never reacted negatively. Feeling better about sex was definitely worth the embarrassment.
Posted by Dinah on May 3, 2005, at 7:54:49
In reply to How do you talk about sex?, posted by crushedout on May 2, 2005, at 20:41:04
My therapist acknowledges with a grin that I'm very free in talking about sex. I use clinical terms or mild slang because that's how I talk. He asks appropriate questions. He sometimes uses vulgarities in conversation, but rarely about sex.
I've only got embarassed once that I remember. My last holdout in talking about something with him, and only important because I didn't, was about fantasies. And I only didn't want to tell him because I see him as a conventional sort of guy, not because it bothers me. My husband knows about it. Talking about the fantasy was fine, but when he started talking about acting on the fantasy I could feel my face turning cherry red.
Other than that we've talked about every topic related to sex.
The thing I won't name, that I refer to as the thing on the folded up post it note is sexual. But that's not why I won't use its technical (actually I'm not sure there is a proper technical term for it) or slang expressions. The reason I won't is because it's so terrifying it's likely to literally scare me... Ummmm... Kick up my IBS. How's that?
I don't really think of him as a man. It might be more embarassing if I did but maybe not. I used to have pretty explicit platonic talks with male friends. That's how I learned how things worked on their end. Incidentally, he only rarely tells me how things work on their end, and when he does, it doesn't really tally with what my friends told me. My friends must have been a bunch of romantics. Or he's not.
Posted by crushedout on May 3, 2005, at 8:45:18
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » crushedout, posted by Shortelise on May 2, 2005, at 23:23:09
Posted by mair on May 3, 2005, at 13:56:23
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » crushedout, posted by Shortelise on May 2, 2005, at 23:23:09
I'm with you, even though I have a female T.
Thanks for the chuckle.
mair
Posted by crushedout on May 4, 2005, at 20:27:17
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » crushedout, posted by Tamar on May 3, 2005, at 4:37:58
Hi Tamar,I could really relate to your post. I tend to be kind of vulgar and flirtatious, too, when I talk about sex with friends, so it makes sense that that might feel weird with my T, with whom I have a unidirectional, professional relationship.
I also tend to be vague. The clinical terms disturb me. I hate them. But I also feel uncomfortable using *really* vulgar terms.
I wish we could use concrete examples in this thread. Why am I embarrassed to? I mean, with asterisks, of course. OK, so, for example I would always say "have sex" instead of "f---" but "have sex" sounds sooo boring. But I would feel too weird saying "f---." That's just one example.
Thanks to everyone for their posts, which were truly fascinating. I'd love to continue this conversation.
Posted by littleone on May 4, 2005, at 20:53:30
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » Tamar, posted by crushedout on May 4, 2005, at 20:27:17
My T asked me the other day if I'd "had any action". That sounded weird from him.
I hate writing stuff about sex in my write ups. Firstly, because it's obviously embarrasing and uncomfortable, but secondly because it's always the very first thing he will jump on. I swear that he loves talking about sex. And his bookcase full of psych books seems to have a lot more sex therapy books than any other types.
Maybe he always wished he'd gone into sex therapy instead.
Maybe I should suggest to him that he see someone about this apparent over-eagerness. I bet I'd get his foot waggling on that one :)
Posted by Dinah on May 4, 2005, at 21:00:27
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » crushedout, posted by littleone on May 4, 2005, at 20:53:30
Posted by Tamar on May 6, 2005, at 2:19:43
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » Tamar, posted by crushedout on May 4, 2005, at 20:27:17
> I wish we could use concrete examples in this thread. Why am I embarrassed to? I mean, with asterisks, of course. OK, so, for example I would always say "have sex" instead of "f---" but "have sex" sounds sooo boring. But I would feel too weird saying "f---." That's just one example.
>
> Thanks to everyone for their posts, which were truly fascinating. I'd love to continue this conversation.Well, I do think it's helpful to have a list of terms you can use comfortably in therapy. I know what you mean about 'have sex' sounding boring. I also tend to think that men (even therapists) are programmed to think that having sex is an act of penetration, whereas when I use the word ‘sex’ I mean *all* the sexual things that people can do. But your therapist is a woman, yes?
I like ‘get it on’ as a compromise between ‘have sex’ and ‘f***’. And I can’t, under any circumstances, say the word m*st*rb*te: it just sounds like something I should confess to a priest – and I’m not even catholic. So I have to resort to ‘touch myself’. Also I can’t say *rg*sm. Even typing it with asterisks makes me feel a bit wobbly (and not in a good way)!
And then there’s the minefield of finding acceptable words for body parts...
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 2:44:40
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » crushedout, posted by Tamar on May 6, 2005, at 2:19:43
Chuckle. I don't think I could use slang expressions. I use the very clinical terms.
I asked my therapist if he was embarassed at the sexual topics we've been covering lately, and he admitted to being a bit embarassed. I asked because it occurred to me, yet even so I was surprised. I have a way of making sex sound decidedly unerotic.
In fact, my husband says I can do that with any number of topics. I spoiled his college years by telling him I didn't think drunks were anything like "Arthur". That they didn't look rosy to me. They looked pale, flaccid, and sweaty. He just couldn't get drunk after that. ;)
P.S. My slightly embarassed therapist ended up passing on a bit of sexual education that shocked even me. I guess he wanted to pay me back for educating him on feminine anatomy. So I guess talking about being embarassed cured him of it. lol.
Posted by Tamar on May 6, 2005, at 3:50:51
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » Tamar, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 2:44:40
> Chuckle. I don't think I could use slang expressions. I use the very clinical terms.
I suppose that keeps it feeling very professional. I find it uncomfortable, though. I don't like professional detachment much. When I was pregnant I used to joke with my husband about the pelvic exams: I said it would be easier if the doctor would pour a couple of glasses of wine and I would light some candles. In the event, of course, romance with my doctor was the last thing on my mind!
> I asked my therapist if he was embarassed at the sexual topics we've been covering lately, and he admitted to being a bit embarassed. I asked because it occurred to me, yet even so I was surprised. I have a way of making sex sound decidedly unerotic.
How interesting! I never feel embarrassed if other people tell me sexual things - only if I'm the one doing the self-revelation. I wonder why a T would feel embarrassed...
> In fact, my husband says I can do that with any number of topics. I spoiled his college years by telling him I didn't think drunks were anything like "Arthur". That they didn't look rosy to me. They looked pale, flaccid, and sweaty. He just couldn't get drunk after that. ;)
Well, that’s true. The only way to enjoy the company of drunk people is if you’re drunk yourself. I didn’t realise the extent of it until I was pregnant and not drinking to excess :)
> P.S. My slightly embarassed therapist ended up passing on a bit of sexual education that shocked even me. I guess he wanted to pay me back for educating him on feminine anatomy. So I guess talking about being embarassed cured him of it. lol.Care to share? I’m quite intrigued!
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 7:10:53
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 6, 2005, at 3:50:51
> > Chuckle. I don't think I could use slang expressions. I use the very clinical terms.
>
> I suppose that keeps it feeling very professional. I find it uncomfortable, though. I don't like professional detachment much. When I was pregnant I used to joke with my husband about the pelvic exams: I said it would be easier if the doctor would pour a couple of glasses of wine and I would light some candles. In the event, of course, romance with my doctor was the last thing on my mind!lol. Yeah, I was so certain I didn't want any male doctors looking down there. But when the time came, it could have been Scott Bakula as long as he was helping that baby move.
>
> > I asked my therapist if he was embarassed at the sexual topics we've been covering lately, and he admitted to being a bit embarassed. I asked because it occurred to me, yet even so I was surprised. I have a way of making sex sound decidedly unerotic.
>
> How interesting! I never feel embarrassed if other people tell me sexual things - only if I'm the one doing the self-revelation. I wonder why a T would feel embarrassed...He's not sitting in silence. He's asking me questions about what I'm saying, and in some case asking me to elucidate. No revelation of anything to do with himself, but I guess it's still slightly embarassing.
>
> > P.S. My slightly embarassed therapist ended up passing on a bit of sexual education that shocked even me. I guess he wanted to pay me back for educating him on feminine anatomy. So I guess talking about being embarassed cured him of it. lol.
>
> Care to share? I’m quite intrigued!
>
>
Chuckle. It had to do with a visit we took when I was probably technically underage on the occasion of a friend's bachelorette party to an adult bookstore. And my belief that the guy looking through the hole in the rooms in the back wasn't doing such a good job making sure that people weren't doing anything that might get him in violation of his license, judging from the condition of the cubicles. Because I didn't hardly look at the movie in my horrified (and fascinated, there were tons of scientific issues involved) perusal of the cubicle. And my therapist did some follow up questions (about trauma I guess) that included informing me that that wasn't the security guard looking through a peep hole for purposes of ensuring no one enjoyed the movie too much.Eeeeeeeek. I can't believe we did that. I can't believe how badly it could have come out. Instead of feeling grossed out now, I feel strangely blessed. And I managed to go 43 years without knowing that.
>
Hope that's not too much information. :)
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 7:11:22
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 6, 2005, at 3:50:51
Posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 7:33:46
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Icky Trigger., posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 7:10:53
Oh lordy, I just talked about it yesterday. Ick ick ick ick ick. I can't believe the things I say. But if you want to share what is on your mind, what is confusing or upsetting, or whatever, you really have to be specific. Because sex is such a broad topic.
Yesterday we were talking about a specific act (thanks a hell of a lot, Tofu Emmy!) that I had feelings and thoughts associated with.
How about sex word flash cards, so you don't actually have to say it? Just hold up the card you want and good lord, don't make eye contact!
Sigh, it's so embarrassing.
And no biscuit for emmy. :)
gg
Posted by crushedout on May 6, 2005, at 9:04:32
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Icky Trigger., posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 7:33:46
is this emmy thing an inside joke? fill us in.....:)
Posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 9:50:39
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Icky Trigger. » gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on May 6, 2005, at 9:04:32
Oh, she just said something the other night (about a specific act) that I had a reaction to. It's what I talked to my T about.
It's good that she said that, because I didn't know I would react that way, and it bothers me.
And sorry, I don't want to be more explicit without flash cards. :D
gg
Posted by crushedout on May 6, 2005, at 10:01:10
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Icky Trigger. » crushedout, posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 9:50:39
awwww, man. i'm trying so hard to get people to be real explicit on this thread (not just to get my jollies but to know what other people actually *say* or *don't* say). but i guess if we can't do it anonymously online without flashcards, that explains why it's so frickin' embarrassing in person with our Ts.
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 11:28:25
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Icky Trigger., posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 7:33:46
I really like that idea, gg. :) I was thinking of insisting we do the sessions in writing, like we had each had a tonsillectomy, but flashcards are more efficient.
Actually I'm getting a wee bit better. I think he's slowly desensitizing me. Venturing a bit here, and when I shy away pulling away any pressure. Then inserting it into what feels like casual conversation a bit later. Dropping a topic that I flatly refused to discuss, but introducing equally explicit ones that I didn't mind discussing, then meandering back to edge along the first topic.
Dang he's good.
Going every day this week was helpful because it facilitated that sort of interaction. I'm back to twice a week next week and that will be harder. He's left the door open to doing more intense work and scheduling more sessions, but I don't know that I can afford it. :(
On the other hand, we've done more intense work this past week than we've done in the entire ten years I've been seeing him. I brought in something that I wrote (Don't ask me what because I thought he'd give me back that copy and didn't keep it. It was sort of a loose associations of memories on sexual moments growing up.) He took more notes on that sheet of paper over the course of two days than I've seen him take in a normal couple of months. I sort of hate to slow the momentum.
Posted by fallsfall on May 6, 2005, at 12:40:30
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Flashcards » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 11:28:25
>On the other hand, we've done more intense work this past week than we've done in the entire ten years I've been seeing him.
I'm so proud of you, Dinah.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 13:07:43
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Flashcards » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 11:28:25
Wow, good for you. I always think it's a good idea to "make hay while the sun shines."
I'm going to twice a week starting next week. Considering how awkward and self-conscious I felt the other day, I sure hope that I can get past that by going more often.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 13:08:20
In reply to Re: How do you talk about sex? Icky Trigger. » gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on May 6, 2005, at 10:01:10
I understand. I just don't want to be that explicit for posterity. :-D
gg
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