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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rainbowbrite on January 26, 2005, at 15:22:00
BPD? I know what it is (sort of) but I don't understand it. I am trying to help someone who is what I would call severely BPD. Can anyone tell me the best approahes in talking to this person? Also maybe things to aviod doing/ saying? This person has confused me completely on what they WANT. Any advice suggestions?
Thanks
rain
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 26, 2005, at 15:59:38
In reply to can anyone give me insight into......, posted by rainbowbrite on January 26, 2005, at 15:22:00
I meant to tell you on that last night but just now sent you a great link in email. I have known a few with this dx..they have taxed me.
> BPD? I know what it is (sort of) but I don't understand it. I am trying to help someone who is what I would call severely BPD. Can anyone tell me the best approahes in talking to this person? Also maybe things to aviod doing/ saying? This person has confused me completely on what they WANT. Any advice suggestions?
>
> Thanks
> rain
Posted by gardenergirl on January 26, 2005, at 15:59:48
In reply to can anyone give me insight into......, posted by rainbowbrite on January 26, 2005, at 15:22:00
You might check out http://www.bpdcentral.com/
Lots of good resources there.
gg
Posted by rainbowbrite on January 26, 2005, at 16:04:35
In reply to Re: can anyone give me insight into...... » rainbowbrite, posted by gardenergirl on January 26, 2005, at 15:59:48
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 26, 2005, at 16:43:20
In reply to Re: can anyone give me insight into...... » rainbowbrite, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 26, 2005, at 15:59:38
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 26, 2005, at 17:03:26
In reply to Re: can anyone give me insight into...... » rainbowbrite, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 26, 2005, at 15:59:38
When I said taxied I didnt mean BPD were bad or anything...its just hard sometimes to walk on eggshells and that is how I FELT at TIMES.....SO SORRY IF I WASN'T CIVIL or anything like sensitive or ??? grrr lol I am sick gimme a break
Posted by 64bowtie on January 26, 2005, at 19:35:55
In reply to can anyone give me insight into......, posted by rainbowbrite on January 26, 2005, at 15:22:00
GG's site is a great one. Thanks GG
Other sites chock full of details can be found by searching on [DSM-VI] at google.com or ask.com..., some DSM-VI sites are even readable....lol
Rod
Posted by 64bowtie on January 26, 2005, at 19:40:06
In reply to Re: can anyone give me insight into...... » rainbowbrite, posted by 64bowtie on January 26, 2005, at 19:35:55
Posted by fallsfall on January 26, 2005, at 19:55:05
In reply to can anyone give me insight into......, posted by rainbowbrite on January 26, 2005, at 15:22:00
If you like to read books written for therapists, try "Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder" or, for a shorter version "Skills Training Manual for Treating Borderline Personality Disorder". I found that both gave me a good idea of what was going on, and what kinds of attitudes could be helpful and harmful.
Lots of us are borderline, or know people who are, so you can ask specific questions here, too.
Posted by rainbowbrite on January 26, 2005, at 20:02:48
In reply to Re: can anyone give me insight into...... » rainbowbrite, posted by fallsfall on January 26, 2005, at 19:55:05
im really curious from soemone who has it or who knows soemone if they have any advice for this behavior....the asking for help and then resisting it in very aggreesive ways and if there is any significance in this persons lies. It is as thought this person does't know how to tell the truth. Im so confused and really want to help. Will even continue to lie even after caught in a lie and tell more lies to cover that. any insight
thanks so much
Posted by 64bowtie on January 26, 2005, at 20:21:34
In reply to ive got question....., posted by rainbowbrite on January 26, 2005, at 20:02:48
> im really curious from soemone who has it or who knows soemone if they have any advice for this behavior....the asking for help and then resisting it in very aggreesive ways and if there is any significance in this persons lies. It is as thought this person does't know how to tell the truth. Im so confused and really want to help. Will even continue to lie even after caught in a lie and tell more lies to cover that. any insight
> thanks so much<<< Rainbow-person, Hi!
I'm with you. My Dad turns 84 in a couple of days and all his life as I know it, he's had problems with reality and fantasy. I want to accuse him of being malicious when he sticks his chin out and gets all 'wide-eyed' daring me to catch him in a falsehood. 50 years ago, he was diagnosed "textbook" paranoid-schisophrenic, leaving him hearing voices and wondering where the line was between truth and fiction really is.
I can't be around him when he gets that way. I leave, quietly. I return in 10 minutes and he denies he ever said what he said. I (have to) leave again, grumbling to myself....
Rod
Posted by 64bowtie on January 26, 2005, at 20:25:30
In reply to ive got question....., posted by rainbowbrite on January 26, 2005, at 20:02:48
Posted by rainbowbrite on January 26, 2005, at 20:51:48
In reply to Re: ive got question..... » rainbowbrite, posted by 64bowtie on January 26, 2005, at 20:21:34
aww rod im sorry, thats sounds so frustrating.
Posted by rainbowbrite on January 26, 2005, at 20:55:05
In reply to ive got question..., i give answer....lol (nm) » rainbowbrite, posted by 64bowtie on January 26, 2005, at 20:25:30
hahahaha!! YOur making fun of me!! LOL!
rainbow-person :)
Posted by fallsfall on January 26, 2005, at 21:24:07
In reply to ive got question....., posted by rainbowbrite on January 26, 2005, at 20:02:48
You bring up two questions:
1. Asking for help and then refusing the help when it is offered.
There are a couple of reasons that they could be doing this. The one I've seen most is that the person knows that they need help and somehow manage to ask for it. But between that time and the time the help is offered, they get confused and ambivalent. Perhaps they learned as a child that accepting help was "bad" (that they should be strong and selfsufficient). Perhaps they know intellectually that they need help, but emotionally they feel that needing help is unacceptable. Perhaps they don't really think they need help, but they ask for it to see if you care enough to give them the help (and once they see that you do care, they decide that either they don't need the help, or that they are scared because now someone cares about them).
You could confirm with them at the time that they are asking for help that that is what you are hearing from them "I just heard you ask me to help you make sure that you get the living room cleaned. To do that, I will remind you that things still need to be done. Is that what you want me to do?" They may not be "hearing" themselves the same way that you are "hearing" them. If you do this confirmation thing when they *ask* for the help, then you can clarify things on the spot and be sure that the communication is accurate.
When they refuse the help, you can remind them of when they asked for it. Ask if they have changed their mind about needing/wanting help between the time they asked and now. These questions can help them to see that their requests aren't consistent over time. I would suggest that if they do seem to have changed their mind, that you point out that what they are asking for now is different from what they asked for before. They may not be aware of the contradiction. If they aren't, then your first job is to help them to see why *you* see a contradiction. But keep in mind that they do have the right to change their mind (it is kind if they recognize, however, that changing their mind has an impact on you, and that you can't be expected to know that they changed their mind if they didn't tell you!)
2. Lying.
My experience tells me that BPD people are working very hard to survive. That many of their behaviors are designed to prevent annihilation (and yes, it really does feel that dire to them). So let's say that you like the cap put back on the toothpaste. They come to bed and you say "Did you put the cap back on the toothpaste?" They will say "Yes" because that is what will make you happy *at this moment*, and they are terrified of making you unhappy. They ***Know*** that the cap on the toothpaste makes you happy, and that the cap off the toothpaste makes you mad. They *want* to make you happy, so they give you the answer that will make you happy. The issue could be that making you happy is more important to them than "truth".
In my family growing up there were "no" problems. If something went wrong it was never mentioned, never acknowledged. So for me to admit that a problem exists goes against everything I learned as a child. I honestly don't know what people *do* when there is a problem - because I never saw this modelled as a child. I don't lie, however, but I am honest to a fault (a big fault). A different person's reaction to the same family I grew up in might be to lie - to make everything "look" right because appearances are everything.
I guess the bottom line is that there is a *reason* for this person's behavior. And before you will be able to get them to change their behavior, it is really helpful for you to understand *why* they are behaving like they are. My therapist used to say "I can understand, given your background, why you feel the way that you do". That statement was incredibly validating. To know that there was a *reason* for how I was behaving was so important. And when I didn't have to keep justifying why I felt a particular way - when she accepted that I *did* feel that way, then we could start to look at what assumptions I might be making that perhaps were no longer true (i.e. that people other than my parents *did* want to know if a problem existed).
Keep in mind that what I have said are just examples. The motivations behind your friend's actions could be completely different from what I am describing. But, his/her actions ARE logical when you understand the background and history of his/her life.
Posted by rainbowbrite on January 26, 2005, at 21:57:06
In reply to Re: ive got question..... » rainbowbrite, posted by fallsfall on January 26, 2005, at 21:24:07
i like those ideas, i will try that. deos this make a difference? This person well is almost always under the influence when asking for help and then 2 min later will change mind. when not under the influence (which is usually rare) the person is a completely differnt person. Very needy but differnet. It is the destuction which is what worries me, i dont know how to address it, i haven't been doing very well at it so far. I hear what you are saying about childhood, umm I guess Im having a hard time getting into their head. It wasn't a great childhood but the lies are this perosns truth adn im like you it is as if i have taken truth serum LOL. so its hard to understand the motives. thanks for those suggestions I am definately going to change the way I ask and say things. i was told that i usually tackle the impossible, and refering to this situation i was told that i was continuing to attemt to fix an unsolvable problem. i just don't believe that. i believe everyone has hope.
thanks
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