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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 66 to 90 of 138. Go back in thread:
Posted by Rigby on January 18, 2005, at 16:48:19
In reply to Re: What about PB pushes your buttons? » Joslynn, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 18, 2005, at 16:34:35
Hey Fallen,
I haven't followed this entire thread and do not know probably as much as others re your situation but I do want to offer my support in terms of going with your heart. It takes tremendous courage! I've done a variety of "swimming upstream" kinda things and, although difficult at times (and I got a raft of judgement for them) I really felt I had no choice--I needed to go my own way. It *can* work out and I think it's very cool that this is happening for you!
Sorry for the barge, everyone! And really, this is not a comment on the content at all of this thread (especially since I didn't read much of it!)--just wanted to send this note to Fallen!
> Thank you for the apology yes I do feel put down and hurt when I post and have anyone not just you per se post as well as post around and hint on me and my life. I do not see the same being done to others who have chosen to do things that others find unethical or immoral. So to me, we have had this converstaion in the past and it is done.I heard your view and that of others. I can only speak for me and not the other poster I do not know if she is happy or not. Myself I am NOT being taken advantage of in the least ...I am very strong and my T and I have as I told a poster in chat picked out a ring. He has filed for a divorce and I will be soon. Our plan is to marry in 2 years...BUT being a realist I know that could go either way....I could fall flat on my face. Please don't worry on me if I fall I will get back up... I am not that fragile...That is my call and the pain will be mine and his if there IS any...When someone slashes their arms up I do not nag lecture them or bring up old posts of theirs. I just want to be free to speak too and without being what I feel is smacked on the head for my issues NOT that YOU have smacked me on the head but sometimes things do go well with these relationships..NOT OFTEN...It IS rare VERY rare...I hope you stay but allow me my voice too...I do see posts from people who cut themselves and some who are cheating on a spouse, having pre marital sex, are suicidal..I do not feel the need to tell everyone to not do that it is bad and immoral and will hurt them..
>
> Maybe Dr Bob could have a disclaimer on the top of this site stating the Moral and Ethical issues on this as it pertains to the APA so nobody....and I do not mean you ..but nobody has to feel the need to basically ask me not to be me and talk on me :( I let otheres be themeselves and I try to help then I work on me.
>
>
> I really like you we have had nice talks in the past . I do not think MOST people should go with these crossings also but in some cases...it works and its not a victim situation.
> In most cases it is.
> Thank you
> > Fallen, I am not sure if you mean that you thought my posts made your felt put down or something else? I miss a lot of posts because I pop in and out during work. To clarify, when I was thinking of the boundary violations by Ts, it wasn't just one poster I recalled. It was you, plus TMP, who seems like such a sweet but vulnerable person whose T really took advantage of her, now her future has been permanently changed. And there was someone else, but now I don't remember. I thought there was a third person and I apologize if I don't remember this correctly.
> >
> > Please understand, I don't think you or other victims of therapist abuse did anything wrong. It is the Ts who are in the wrong. And I think that other posters should not be afraid to say that, because there are lots of other people reading and lurking who may really be unsure about this subject. And when other posters say things that sound congratulatory, that could be really confusing for someone.
> >
> > It's one of those gray areas. We all know driving recklessly, SI, etc is harmful to us, but to accept the romantic attention of a professional who knows your heart and mind....I can see how that could feel so good even if it ended up hurting someone in the long run.
> >
> > This is going to be my last post on this board, because for one thing, I am obviously just making posters feel criticized and not Ts, and two, I really do need to stay off the internet at work because we are entering the busy period. So this seems like a good reason to stay off here. The last thing I meant was for the victims to feel blamed.
> >
> > I do wish you luck. You have posted some nice things to me in the past and I never meant to make you feel hurt or criticized. I am sure I will not be able to resist lurking from time to time, but I will refrain from posting, so as not to hurt more feelings.
>
>
Posted by Dinah on January 18, 2005, at 18:06:01
In reply to Re: What about PB pushes your buttons?, posted by Joslynn on January 18, 2005, at 9:36:09
Joslynn, take a work break if you need to. I certainly need to from time to time or I never get anything done!
But please don't leave. The truth is that it's nearly impossible to never ever make anyone feel criticized. You've made your position quite clear. I agree with it entirely. Therapists who sleep with their clients should be given some especially exquisite punishment. Not only are they betraying their professional ethics, their possible spouses, the clients they are sleeping with who nearly always end up in bad shape, but most importantly to me they are jeopardizing every single therapeutic relationship they have.
Every delicate soul out there who has tentatively put their trust in their therapist is likely to have their therapist disbarred and unlicensed and thus abandoning them and betraying their trust.
If my therapist EVER puts one little toe out of line on the sex with a client issue and EVER puts his license in jeopardy, and my relationship with him in jeopardy, because of sex, I swear I will join his wife in making his life a living h*ll and do my best to make sure his next life is no better.
Please don't leave. What you said is important. You weren't blaming a client. And it's NOT just one client on this board. It's happened way more than once.
Posted by Dinah on January 18, 2005, at 18:13:23
In reply to Re: What about PB pushes your buttons? » Joslynn, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 18, 2005, at 16:34:35
And Fallen?
I'm sorry if what I said makes you feel criticized. That isn't my intent. I am not intending on commenting on anything to do with you. Or any of the other people who have found themselves in your situation. Nor do I automatically think that you are in imminent danger or a delicate flower or anything like that.
But therapists have a sacred trust by virtue of their influence on so many lives. I can and will be extremely critical of therapists who betray that trust. Since the majority of licensing bodies are with me on that one, I'm not going to feel overly guilty about it. Even though there might be some personal issues underlying the intensity of my disapproval.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 18, 2005, at 18:14:14
In reply to Re: What about PB pushes your buttons? » Fallen4MyT, posted by Rigby on January 18, 2005, at 16:48:19
Rigby THANK YOU I do not expect people for the most part to agree and they shouldn't IN MOST CASES but there are always exceptions. I am following my heart..I never thought of it that way but yes I am kind of happy minus being ill and it's nice to have someone else see ME in the stream not just what I am doing. I do not even post on it or talk in chat when I see folks who are against it....I end up feeling shunned and wish just to be treated like others and agree to disagree...That said.,...MEGA THANKS...I have had babblemails and one chat with a person who feel they cannnot say anything nice to me on the boards on this topic and its so cool to have someone happy for me...a realistic me :)
((( RIGBY)))> Hey Fallen,
>
> I haven't followed this entire thread and do not know probably as much as others re your situation but I do want to offer my support in terms of going with your heart. It takes tremendous courage! I've done a variety of "swimming upstream" kinda things and, although difficult at times (and I got a raft of judgement for them) I really felt I had no choice--I needed to go my own way. It *can* work out and I think it's very cool that this is happening for you!
>
> Sorry for the barge, everyone! And really, this is not a comment on the content at all of this thread (especially since I didn't read much of it!)--just wanted to send this note to Fallen!
>
> >
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 18, 2005, at 18:20:01
In reply to Re: What about PB pushes your buttons? » Fallen4MyT, posted by Rigby on January 18, 2005, at 16:48:19
OK so you do know I have in the past received babblemails and emails from posters wishing for the same kind of relationship and I have gone out of my way to politely not give all the facts as NOT TO encourage them as I know in these cases it will not happen nor from what I saw would be a good idea with these people but I would be there for them should they want to ever talk feet on floor or face to it. I respect those who do not agree with me. They have a right to their opinions and feelings but so do I and if I post I got a gift it really would be nice to be able to get a reply on the boards and not have it talked about over here..That really doesn't help me. So for the record PLEASE do not do what I do. I can take 45mgs of Valium and walk and drive but I expect others cannot and I know they SHOULD NOT same thing applies here...Love you all
HUGS
Posted by gardenergirl on January 18, 2005, at 18:20:49
In reply to Re: What about PB pushes your buttons?, posted by Joslynn on January 18, 2005, at 9:36:09
>I thought there was a third person and I apologize if I don't remember this correctly.
I think there was a poster named Jadah who had a similar experience, but was not currently involvd with her T. I could be remembering it wrong, though.
> > This is going to be my last post on this board, because for one thing, I am obviously just making posters feel criticized and not Ts, and two, I really do need to stay off the internet at work because we are entering the busy period.I just needed to comment here, because "making people feel" something is kind of a hot button phrase for me. We can't make people feel anything that they do not already have a smidgeon of inside. If there is nothing there, then indifference would be the response, not whatever we "made them feel". Does this make sense? It seems like you were posting your opinion on this issue, one that you are not unique in. Because it goes against Fallen's stated behavior, it may appear to be critical of her, but it really, IMO, is critical of the act, especially on the part of the T. I've never noticed you posting anything critical or mean about a poster. You seem to be good at separating behavior from the person. I like that about you. :)
Also, in your next post you stated : I really never meant to hurt people or make people feel like they were in junior high school.
I just wanted to reassure you that I was not thinking of you when I posted that about Jr. High. I'm beginning to regret saying that, cause I'm not prepared to offer more details. Best to keep it to myself.
Shoot, sometimes I think we ought to close this thread. It’s kind of loaded.
gg
Posted by mair on January 18, 2005, at 22:11:14
In reply to Re: What about PB pushes your buttons? » Joslynn, posted by gardenergirl on January 18, 2005, at 18:20:49
"I just wanted to reassure you that I was not thinking of you when I posted that about Jr. High. I'm beginning to regret saying that, cause I'm not prepared to offer more details. Best to keep it to myself. "
GG, I shouldn't have come back and asked you what you meant by that. It you had wanted to elaborate, you would have when you made the statement to begin with.
>
>" Shoot, sometimes I think we ought to close this thread. It’s kind of loaded."I started this thread, and I endorse the notion that it should be closed. I apologize. I didn't think of it as a potentially loaded topic; I wasn't trying to stir anything up. As it's turned out, alot of the responses have really surprised me because they were not necessarily what I had in mind at all when I asked the question. It's been very informative for me, but I don't think informative cuts it here, when it's not a more neutral issue.
I maybe should have anticipated this when I started this thread, but my instincts about what works here and what doesn't are appallingly off.
I, too, really hope that Joslyn stays.
Mair
Posted by gardenergirl on January 18, 2005, at 23:56:31
In reply to Re: What about PB pushes your buttons? - To all, posted by mair on January 18, 2005, at 22:11:14
Mair,
I babblemailed you with some feelings on this, but in general, I think your thread was an interesting idea. Perhaps many of us are primed to take some of the buttons being pushed personally. I know I always tend to personalize sutff when I am PMSing. And I think I am. I'll have to check the calendar. ;)Take care,
gg
Posted by Joslynn on January 19, 2005, at 8:41:53
In reply to Re: What about PB pushes your buttons? - To all » mair, posted by gardenergirl on January 18, 2005, at 23:56:31
I appreciate all the responses, especially from Fallen. And Dinah said what I was thinking but with much better words. I have decided I will stick around but "let go" of this specific train of thought, since I've pretty much said all I wanted to say.
I will be posting infrequently, because we really are busy at work, but there is no need for me to run away, that's just an old way of dealing with things.
Thanks all for responding.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 19, 2005, at 13:22:26
In reply to I'm still here, posted by Joslynn on January 19, 2005, at 8:41:53
>>I appreciate all the responses, especially from Fallen.>>
Thank you I always value your imput. Are you an accountant????
Posted by Joslynn on January 19, 2005, at 14:12:01
In reply to Re: I'm still here » Joslynn, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 19, 2005, at 13:22:26
Hee! That would be funny, gosh no, I can't even balance my own checkbook.
I'm more of a word person. We just get busier in January, after the holidays, for some reason.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 19, 2005, at 16:04:49
In reply to Re: I'm still here, posted by Joslynn on January 19, 2005, at 14:12:01
HAHAHA OMG me too my checkbooks have NO balance I just write the numbers I spent in and leave it I gave up years ago :) I thought you might be an accountant I can tell you know cause of the time of year,,Man I dread taxes this year we are gonna owe BIG time cause we hit the ole 401k big time...gulp..I wonder what you do that makes you busier...must be the new year itself things starting up and things changing. Hugs
> Hee! That would be funny, gosh no, I can't even balance my own checkbook.
>
> I'm more of a word person. We just get busier in January, after the holidays, for some reason.
Posted by just plain jane on January 19, 2005, at 20:35:11
In reply to Re: I'm still here » Joslynn, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 19, 2005, at 16:04:49
Not knowing the story, I wondered, when I came to PB and I saw your name.
It being none of my business, I didn't ask. But I have been concerned and curious.Now that I know a bit of your story, I can say I understand how you feel, both about your love, and about being criticized, or at least feeling that way, for it.
I agree that a relationship with a client beyond legitimate therapy is wrong. If the relationship seems imperative, then the client-therapist relationship should end.
Sadly, in your case, you are both married and will have to finish the destruction of those marriages to construct the one you are planning. A most unpleasant situation to be in. However, I don't believe that the destruction was wrought, in either case, by your relationship. Marriages that destruct generally have faulty foundations or no supportive structure.
In anyone's case, I would WISH them well, but have a remaining feeling of distaste for the T for engaging in the transgressive behavior in the first place, regardless of how much the client feels there was no abuse of priviledge.
There was a therapist, I think it was NYC, who made the news some years back being brought up on charges by several of his clients, whom he had convinced that sex with him was an important part of their therapy, he had played upon their vulnerabilities to secure their "need" of him. The clients won their cases against him, but there is no way they could erase what he had done to them.
This is only one of many similar cases, and some T's do still use their position as "idol" or "boss" to gain whatever perverse pleasure they can with submissive clients, who, ironically, most likely came to deal with being abused or being submissive in the first place.
and bla, bla, bla
Anyway... it was your choice of name here, where so many people have T's that they may be having transference problems or abuse problems with that triggered me.
And, now that I've been triggered and gone off, I can sit and watch the smoke curling up, wafting about, riding the currents of the wind.
just plain jane
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 19, 2005, at 20:55:40
In reply to Fallen4MyT » Fallen4MyT, posted by just plain jane on January 19, 2005, at 20:35:11
>>and bla, bla, bla
Anyway... it was your choice of name here, where so many people have T's that they may be having transference problems or abuse problems with that triggered me.
And, now that I've been triggered and gone off, I can sit and watch the smoke curling up, wafting about, riding the currents of the wind.
just plain jane
>>>I am kind of lost by what you mean by the above part of your post but so you are in the loop my T has filed for a divorce (I have seen the papers) and we are engaged to be married. There will be no smoke and if there is I will get out safely. I am not so fragile. I have been on this site maybe 2 years give or take, My screen name is and was acceptable to Dr Bob...I guess anything can trigger anybody even your name....just plain seens so sad,.to me. Anyways the best to you
Posted by Gabbix2 on January 19, 2005, at 22:49:30
In reply to Fallen4MyT » Fallen4MyT, posted by just plain jane on January 19, 2005, at 20:35:11
> Anyway... it was your choice of name here, where so many people have T's that they may be having transference problems or abuse problems with that triggered me.
>
> And, now that I've been triggered and gone off, I can sit and watch the smoke curling up, wafting about, riding the currents of the wind.
>
Wow, you know I don't know enough about therapists and client relationships to dare voice an opinion here on what one should be able to talk about or not. As for screen names though, in the years I've been here I've seen screen names alluding to how many meds people are on, how much they dislike psychiatrists, how much pain they are in, to how victimized they feel, and it's not been seen as a problem, the extreme cases are dealt with by Dr. Bob. It seems to me that if the name Fallen4MyT is that much of a trigger it's not really the name that's the issue.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 19, 2005, at 23:08:21
In reply to Re: Fallen4MyT » just plain jane, posted by Gabbix2 on January 19, 2005, at 22:49:30
Thank you Gabbix you know that post came from left field When I joined Babble we had huge thread on T smitteness and so on, how we dressed and what we said and wished. I use to LOVE KK's and her comments and questions that made my day with laughter, I miss TinyDancer...I know not everone had the same ending but I would defend their right to post on it. And be supportive no matter what. I found Babble by a seach on Google on "I am in love my T"
EVERYTHING can be a trigger but I do not think my screen name is any better or worse than anyone else in here. I feel put down for nothing. I was one of the first maybe 5 greeters on the newbie board I am not new myself. Now I am gonna do my nails :) I too do not feel my name is/was the issue
> Wow, you know I don't know enough about therapists and client relationships to dare voice an opinion here on what one should be able to talk about or not. As for screen names though, in the years I've been here I've seen screen names alluding to how many meds people are on, how much they dislike psychiatrists, how much pain they are in, to how victimized they feel, and it's not been seen as a problem, the extreme cases are dealt with by Dr. Bob. It seems to me that if the name Fallen4MyT is that much of a trigger it's not really the name that's the issue.
Posted by rainbowbrite on January 19, 2005, at 23:27:00
In reply to Re: Fallen4MyT » Gabbix2, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 19, 2005, at 23:08:21
Hey Fallen
That post was so random IMHO. I just want to add that I don't think your name is what is going on here either. I suspect it is somtething else within the person who said this.
:)
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 19, 2005, at 23:38:04
In reply to Re: Fallen4MyT » Fallen4MyT, posted by rainbowbrite on January 19, 2005, at 23:27:00
Thank you for your support Rainbow, I do feel kind of put down for that other post ya know? I appreciate your sensitivity. It's nice to have support :)
> Hey Fallen
>
> That post was so random IMHO. I just want to add that I don't think your name is what is going on here either. I suspect it is somtething else within the person who said this.
>
> :)
Posted by rainbowbrite on January 20, 2005, at 0:51:43
In reply to Re: Fallen4MyT » Fallen4MyT, posted by rainbowbrite on January 19, 2005, at 23:27:00
if i worded this in an iffy manner, I was just trying to be supportive.
Rain
Posted by TofuEmmy on January 20, 2005, at 6:53:03
In reply to Re: Fallen4MyT » rainbowbrite, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 19, 2005, at 23:38:04
Isn't he worried that one of the spouses who is being divorced will report him to the APA? That would be my concern. I'd imagine the ex's might be a little grumpy. Since you two aren't waiting the mandatory two years, the APA could yank his license, and there goes his income and livlihood. Heck, even his secretary could report him. Does he have a plan for that? Like a new career somewhere?
Jeepers, and what about his current patients? They'd have to get a new therapist. I'm such a worrier.
emmy
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 20, 2005, at 8:03:37
In reply to Re: The APA » Fallen4MyT, posted by TofuEmmy on January 20, 2005, at 6:53:03
> Isn't he worried that one of the spouses who is being divorced will report him to the APA? ... Does he have a plan for that? Like a new career somewhere?
>
> Jeepers, and what about his current patients? They'd have to get a new therapist. I'm such a worrier.I would be interesting if we could get his perspective somehow...
Bob
Posted by mair on January 20, 2005, at 15:08:35
In reply to Re: The APA » Fallen4MyT, posted by TofuEmmy on January 20, 2005, at 6:53:03
>" Isn't he worried that one of the spouses who is being divorced will report him to the APA? That would be my concern. I'd imagine the ex's might be a little grumpy. Since you two aren't waiting the mandatory two years, the APA could yank his license, and there goes his income and livlihood. Heck, even his secretary could report him"
This actually happened to a pdoc I saw briefly and it wasn't his wife, colleagues, secretary or patient who reported him, but a friend the patient had confided in.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 20, 2005, at 17:19:05
In reply to Re: such a worrier, posted by Dr. Bob on January 20, 2005, at 8:03:37
As my T ..or EX T, I use T still as I just do not want to post his name. As he is not a member of babble I will not and *cannot* speak to *his* perspective. As it is his. It would be intresting if he were a member he may have a reply that perhaps people should be more concerned with their own issues and not worry so on ours, that sounds like something he would say..I have not sent off a flare weeping and freaking out over this I am very happy.
I shared a happy day when he gave me a bracelet so some of these responses seem to have less to do with me and more to do with something else...However, other than he knows what he is doing time tables are covered and I really do not think anyone is really worried about me on this one. I will say his marriage wasn't all that to begin with and he has looked into all these issues as well as others and has spoken to his superiors in his clinic and to post all the details would be an *identifier* so I am sorry I cannot...Nobody needs to lose sleep worrying on *me or his career or the spouses involved* :) in this case. Our spouses seem to be very civil on it. We covered these issues and he will still have his job. Dr Bob he has been in practice for over 16 years his lisc is free of any complaints he is well respected in our area and really he KNOWS what the APA allows and so on. So maybe people could maybe be happy for me or us as I AM engaged and be *supportive*..They need *not agree or like what we are doing* to be supportive...I DO understand what the rules are and so on BUT there is a fact that is overlooked here I think...support. Do we only support someone when they are down? Isn't support for the good, and bad...even misguided if thats how some see me? Frankly I am happy I have a gorgeous ring and that seems to bother some posters I am sorry for that. I myself try to be supportive of things I agree with as well as don't. I feel like because I am happy that is bad on babble,,,do you think this could be *some* of the case Dr Bob? Thank you for wanting to get his view and perspective on it. That was very kind of you.
> > Isn't he worried that one of the spouses who is being divorced will report him to the APA? ... Does he have a plan for that? Like a new career somewhere?
> >
> > Jeepers, and what about his current patients? They'd have to get a new therapist. I'm such a worrier.
>
> I would be interesting if we could get his perspective somehow...
>
> Bob
Posted by rainbowbrite on January 20, 2005, at 18:35:48
In reply to Dr Bob / WORRY AND MORE » Dr. Bob, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 20, 2005, at 17:19:05
Fallen I am VERY HAPPY for you. I don't understand others' negativivty because I personally see it as a blessing that the two of you found each otehr! I am sure there are others who share my feelings.
But... I am really ENVIOUS of the BEAUTIFUL ring! LOL
rain xoxo
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 20, 2005, at 19:17:11
In reply to Re: Dr Bob / WORRY AND MORE » Fallen4MyT, posted by rainbowbrite on January 20, 2005, at 18:35:48
Awwww Rain thank you....I got offline to exercise and eat but am back for a bit and this was such a gracious and kind letter...thank you. You made my day...Kinda like cotton candy for the brain :P I do not expect everyone to be happy for us or me...but it would be nice to get some support mega thanks :)
> Fallen I am VERY HAPPY for you. I don't understand others' negativivty because I personally see it as a blessing that the two of you found each otehr! I am sure there are others who share my feelings.
>
> But... I am really ENVIOUS of the BEAUTIFUL ring! LOL
>
> rain xoxo
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