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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by littleone on November 4, 2004, at 20:45:19
Quite some time ago, I confessed to my T that I had this yearning to touch him. And I don't mean in a gooby, sexual kind of way. More like if you saw a priceless vase, looking at it isn't enough. You'd want to ever so gently touch it almost as though you are checking that it is really there in front of you.
I actually gave him that explanation so he wouldn't misinterpret my meaning, but he just sort of waved the boundaries flag in my face and moved on to the next topic. I felt so blah after the whole thing and was especially careful with what I revealed to him after that.
Anyway, a little while ago I got the s**ts with him over something and threw that incident back in his face. I told him that I know all about boundaries and in fact I probably only felt safe raising that with him *because of* the boundaries and the safety they provide.
I started to fade away a bit then and don't exactly remember what he said, but it was something along the lines that he wasn't able to discuss it at that earlier point because he didn't know how closely his definition of touching aligned with my definition of touching. I got the impression that if I raised it again further down the therapy track, he probably *would* discuss it and our definitions.
Mind you, it's just occurred to me that he dodged it again. He didn't actually talk about touching, he just talked about talking about it. ARGH!
It just makes me feel like I've been left behind, standing there scratching my head and going "huh?".
I can certainly understand that the same term/phrase/idea/concept can mean different things to different people. But I also kind of thought that as long as you clarify what that term means to you, in a way that the other person really can see your meaning, then you should be able to discuss it. eg like how Dinah's T explained himself in Miss Honeychurch's Meaningless Musing thread.
As an aside, this all kind of happened before we started talking about the possiblity of childhood abuse, so it is possible he suspected there was some abuse and wanted to learn about that before proceeding with a talk about touching.
*sigh*. I don't really have a question here. Just having a rant and trying to sort things out in my head.
On second thoughts, I do have a question. Do many of you have experiences in therapy where you raise something, but your T won't really talk about because he thinks *you* aren't ready to talk about it? Either he has said that outright, or you just get that impression because he so neatly sets the subject aside.
Posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2004, at 21:18:24
In reply to How things mean different things to diff people, posted by littleone on November 4, 2004, at 20:45:19
Hey there. In my experience topics definately do get avoided, and if I push I am given an 'it's for your own good' type explanation.
Best I can figure thats because T is uncomfortable and needs some time to think.
I figure that touch is something that can be interpreted in a variety of ways and your T may be worried about there being some confusion, or there being some confusion AFTER it happened - especially if you have been abused in the past. Sometimes it can feel ok until after and then things get all confusing because of transference etc. He is probably just trying to be cautious.
If you think he is brushing you off then you could try telling him that you think he is brushing it off and that you think it is important to discuss it.
Posted by Daisym on November 4, 2004, at 22:57:31
In reply to How things mean different things to diff people, posted by littleone on November 4, 2004, at 20:45:19
Once I asked my therapist if he had any chronic illnesses and once I asked about the gender of his kids. Both times he said he would answer but he needed to know why I wanted to know and how would I feel if he answered this way or that way. Since it was my therapy, he didn't want me constrained, if for example, I wanted to complain about my husband's illnesses. We worked through those questions.
Other than that, he has said straight out, everything goes in therapy. There is nothing we can't talk about. I think I made him blush yesterday talking about sexual curiosity, but he didn't duck the question or waver. I'm so thankful for that.
Oh, and when I asked him about how good he problably is at hiding his true feelings, he told me that I was the one who was the pro at that and that I am so attuned to him that he wouldn't consider hiding anything. That it would risk my trust if I sensed him holding back.
Posted by shortelise on November 5, 2004, at 0:32:28
In reply to How things mean different things to diff people, posted by littleone on November 4, 2004, at 20:45:19
Yes, I think it has happened that my T has put things aside like that.
As for the touching thing, I shake hands with my T at the end of every session. We shake hands, but the initiative is to be mine.
It might have been nice for your T to suggest that when you said you felt a need to touch. It's grounding sort of thing, also friendly, and personal, but not invasive at all. For me, that is.
So, so sorry your T let you down on this. Do you think he did it on purpose?
ShortE
Posted by alexandra_k on November 5, 2004, at 3:31:24
In reply to Re: How things mean different things to diff people » littleone, posted by shortelise on November 5, 2004, at 0:32:28
Shaking hands is a good idea. I like that one.
Posted by LittleGirlLost on November 5, 2004, at 11:37:33
In reply to How things mean different things to diff people, posted by littleone on November 4, 2004, at 20:45:19
> Quite some time ago, I confessed to my T that I had this yearning to touch him. And I don't mean in a gooby, sexual kind of way. More like if you saw a priceless vase, looking at it isn't enough. You'd want to ever so gently touch it almost as though you are checking that it is really there in front of you.
How funny that you should say this!! I've recently begun feeling the same way. Like I want to softly poke her shoulder to see that's she's real. I haven't told her this though.... yet.
Of course I also want to hang onto her neck and arm like a child who's happy to see someone would, but I'd settle for poking her with one finger. :)LGL
Posted by sunny10 on November 5, 2004, at 12:09:38
In reply to Re: How things mean different things to diff people » littleone, posted by LittleGirlLost on November 5, 2004, at 11:37:33
I think what you guys are saying is that there is a part of you that feels like the whole process is "too good to be true", therefore you feel you must be dreaming the whole thing up- so the urge to touch is really just an urge to prove to yourselves that what you're experiencing is real.
Yes, it is true that these T's exist and that they really are trying to help you- and yes, consequently, you are worth helping.
Did it help at all just having me "say it out loud", so to speak??
just my opinion,
-sunny10
Posted by Aphrodite on November 6, 2004, at 8:16:20
In reply to How things mean different things to diff people, posted by littleone on November 4, 2004, at 20:45:19
> On second thoughts, I do have a question. Do many of you have experiences in therapy where you raise something, but your T won't really talk about because he thinks *you* aren't ready to talk about it? Either he has said that outright, or you just get that impression because he so neatly sets the subject aside.
My T has stopped me from discussing difficult things before, not because he doesn't want to hear them, but because he thinks the timing is wrong. Sometimes if I'm feeling really unstable and I keep revisiting some past event, he wants to stop swimming in the misery and do some kind of present grounding exercise to help me function. Or, if we don't have much time left, he'll gently guide me to put it on the agenda for the next session so we'll have enough time. Usually it's a struggle for him to discern whether talking about certain hard subjects is going to be helpful or cause me more distress.
I'm sorry your T did not take your words in the way you intended them. I thought it was a very sweet sentiment. Maybe you can try again to explain.
Posted by thewrite1 on November 6, 2004, at 11:28:17
In reply to How things mean different things to diff people, posted by littleone on November 4, 2004, at 20:45:19
Yes, yes, and yes. For a long time, I wouldn't say anything about it. Now, more often than not, I become all sarcastic about whatever it is she's trying to avoid. That's my way of just point blank calling her on it. For instance, I think I once said to her, "You just tap danced around that like a real pro. Fred Astaire would be proud!" I find when I take a tone like that with her, she's more likely to not brush over it.
Posted by littleone on November 8, 2004, at 15:28:12
In reply to Re: How things mean different things to diff people, posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2004, at 21:18:24
> Hey there. In my experience topics definately do get avoided, and if I push I am given an 'it's for your own good' type explanation.
>
> Best I can figure thats because T is uncomfortable and needs some time to think.
I couldn't help but laugh at this alexandra. I love it. It rings true so loudly for me that there must be *at least* a grain of truth in it. Thanks for that insight.
> I figure that touch is something that can be interpreted in a variety of ways and your T may be worried about there being some confusion, or there being some confusion AFTER it happened - especially if you have been abused in the past.
I think a number of you misinterpretted what I said a little. I should probably clarify that I have a desperate yearning to touch him, but I could never actually do it. I have a real aversion to touching. Even if I brush fingers with someone while handing them a pen or some money or whatever, I shudder with revulsion. Which I always thought was kind of strange considering I hadn't been sexually abused in the past. I think the main cause of this is the fact that my mum and dad *never* touched me (ie no hugs, kisses, pats on the back, normal loving family type of touching). I guess I never learnt to like that sort of thing.But even that explanation seems pretty lame considering the intensity of my revulsion. I guess there's more to it than that.
Posted by littleone on November 8, 2004, at 20:42:03
In reply to Re: How things mean different things to diff people, posted by Daisym on November 4, 2004, at 22:57:31
> Oh, and when I asked him about how good he problably is at hiding his true feelings, he told me that I was the one who was the pro at that and that I am so attuned to him that he wouldn't consider hiding anything. That it would risk my trust if I sensed him holding back.
*sigh* we may be pro's at hiding our true feelings, but I still reckon they must be even bigger pro's to see that we're hiding them. Just think, they would see every "tell" imaginable during their working week. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't use that knowledge to hide their own personal "tells".
Posted by littleone on November 8, 2004, at 20:51:34
In reply to Re: How things mean different things to diff people » littleone, posted by shortelise on November 5, 2004, at 0:32:28
> So, so sorry your T let you down on this. Do you think he did it on purpose?
Let me down on purpose, no. Sidestepped it on purpose, probably. I hate the way that sometimes he says exactly the right thing and other times he'll say exactly the wrong thing. I'm paying him to be my T, not to be human and err. Of course I jest. But of course I don't.
Posted by littleone on November 8, 2004, at 20:54:58
In reply to Re: How things mean different things to diff people » littleone, posted by LittleGirlLost on November 5, 2004, at 11:37:33
> Of course I also want to hang onto her neck and arm like a child who's happy to see someone would
Often I'd like to just sit on the floor and hug his leg. Maybe while I do a Linus and suck my thumb.
Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2004, at 21:40:04
In reply to Re: How things mean different things to diff people » LittleGirlLost, posted by littleone on November 8, 2004, at 20:54:58
That's my visualization too.
Posted by alexandra_k on November 9, 2004, at 2:34:37
In reply to Re: How things mean different things to diff people » alexandra_k, posted by littleone on November 8, 2004, at 15:28:12
> I figure that touch is something that can be interpreted in a variety of ways and your T may be worried about there being some confusion, or there being some confusion AFTER it happened - especially if you have been abused in the past.
>> I think a number of you misinterpretted what I said a little.Sorry to misunderstand (I think they call it projection and now I am blushing...)
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