![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by KindGirl on May 10, 2004, at 1:19:37
I am sorry I have been invisible here for a while...I had every string of that stupid virus on both of my computers and am FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY back online after over a week of this computer mess!!!!
Anyway....for anyone who wants to comment or share....I am finding that my mental illness is a very isolated and loneliness experience. The loneliness can be excruciating and cause such despair in me, especially since one of my "core issues" is being neglected and left alone to raise myself since the time I was a toddler. What I did to survive this was to become fiercely independent and a very high achiever. Kind of like a Shirley Temple kind of kid. You know, the kind of little snot that is a precocious pain in the a** who you want to shut up!!! Anyway....question...
1) Does anyone else here struggle with loneliness in recovery? How do you deal with it? (you come here, yes, but how else?)2) How do you all feel about the stigma associated with mental illness (or do you think there is none)?
I find myself to be on a deserted island inside. I feel like my t. is there, but even being with her is an island in itself because I am used to being alone and doing everything for myself and I want her to leave. She is bugging me because unlike every other nurturing figure in my life she won't leave and it is really beginning to bug me.
Secondly, I find myself lying to people about my mental illness. For instance, with my clients and work associates, I tell them I have a "meeting" on Thursdays and will be unavailable between certain hours, when I am really going to therapy. I also lie about my anti depressants...I tell people they are allergy pills or pills to help me sleep.
Does anyone else do this or has done this? It is just something I am noticing and wanted your thoughts.
Posted by partlycloudy on May 10, 2004, at 7:43:17
In reply to The stigma and loneliness of mental illness...., posted by KindGirl on May 10, 2004, at 1:19:37
Oh, KG you articulated so much of how I feel. I can be in a room full of people whom I KNOW love and care about me, and feel lonely. I am trying meditation (and it is working) to open up my heart to the love that people are trying to give me. It is the hardest thing I have ever undertaken. Mostly I have a huge knot in my chest of emotional pain. I am trusting that the medication I'm on will help with some of these feelings. Sometimes I actually feel like I'm part of the world, but usually not.
As for stigma: I think we mentally ill are at the same stage that alcoholics were regarded in 60or 70 years ago. Shunned, dismissed, put away from sight, misunderstood. I think the whole mind-body connection that is only now being explored in the Western world will open up many eyes eventually.
That was a rambling response, but although you're lonely, you are not alone.
partlycloudy
Posted by gardenergirl on May 10, 2004, at 8:20:17
In reply to Re: The stigma and loneliness of mental illness.... » KindGirl, posted by partlycloudy on May 10, 2004, at 7:43:17
KindGirl,
I'm sorry you are feeling so alone, and I'm glad you come to Babble. Computer viruses are a royal pain, aren't they? I have to admit, I am surrounded by psychologists or trainees at work, so I don't feel alone right now. But before this year I did. It's really difficult when people around you have never experienced a mental illness, either themselves or someone close to them. I hear from my clients all the time that their therapy experience is the first time someone "gets it."I am also lucky that a friend of mine sees the same T that I do. We are able to talk about our sessions, usually not in great detail, but enough that it doesn't feel so isolating...like you are the only person in the world who goes to therapy. Mostly we joke about the things he says to both of us and some of his habits.
About the stigma of mental illness (partlycloudy, I think you are right about it being like alcoholism)...Since I work in the field as part of my training, I try hard to advocate to reduce (eliminate in an ideal world) the stigma of mental illness. I do this in a number of ways, including bugging my state and US Reps and Senators about mental health parity coverage legislation. But I think the most significant thing I can do is to be open about my diagnosis (atypical depression) and my treatment (therapy and an MAOI). I have mostly had positive responses, but then I am surrounded by people in the biz. So I know it is much safer for me than for many others to be so open.
Are there any support groups near you that you might drop in on from time to time? Not a therapy group, but just support, kind of like Babble, but IRL?
Otherwise, please keep posting. You really are not alone. We understand, and we care. You don't have to take care of yourself here.
(((((KindGirl)))))
gg
Posted by sjb on May 10, 2004, at 8:58:56
In reply to The stigma and loneliness of mental illness...., posted by KindGirl on May 10, 2004, at 1:19:37
Yes, I can relate to everything you say except the part about being on an island with your therapist.
I get very, very lonely yet often don't want to socialize with those I feel I have nothing in common with. Just forcing it makes me feel odder than I already am. What's particulary lonely for me is not having a passion, something that really feels right for me, like other people seem to have. I just kind of go through the motions with no sense of belonging anywhere.
I really struggle with the stigma as well and sometimes can't believe that I need "mental" help with drugs and therapy. I've come to accept the drugs, life is worse without them, but I still have to force myself to go to therapy. Just the word makes me cringe, likes it's so touchy-feely, upper-class thing and so self-indulgent. It does help, so I keep going, but I don't like it and dread it most of the time.
Posted by B2chica on May 10, 2004, at 9:09:05
In reply to The stigma and loneliness of mental illness...., posted by KindGirl on May 10, 2004, at 1:19:37
> 1) Does anyone else here struggle with loneliness in recovery? How do you deal with it? (you come here, yes, but how else?)
don't think i have complete lonliness, i have a few friends that also deal with anxiety or depression so they can relate. Though there are MANY times that i feel utterly alone- i journal, paint, draw. things you would do alone anyway.
i don't know that i "deal" with it, i think i just allow it to be.> 2) How do you all feel about the stigma associated with mental illness (or do you think there is none)?
There is ABSOLUTELY a stigma...i work in the field of people with disabilities, it is all excepted here EXCEPT somehow, there is this separation between people with mental retardation and those with mental illness, as if you can control MI. I have gotten braver and have told several people my Dx that i wouldn't have 6 months ago, those i feel should know. They have all been great.
> Secondly, I find myself lying to people about my mental illness. For instance, with my clients and work associates, I tell them I have a "meeting" on Thursdays and will be unavailable between certain hours, when I am really going to therapy. I also lie about my anti depressants...I tell people they are allergy pills or pills to help me sleep.I think we've all done this. I have a "meeting" every monday at 3:00" :) and those d@mn allergies...i actually got that idea from my good friend who deals with depression, he said he just tells people it's allergy meds.
Sometimes i'll say its for anxiety, what's strange is it's fine for anyone to have anxiety but not bipolar, i just don't understand.-i really think this is an opportunity for me to educate those around me...but since this is still pretty new to me, i'm allowing myself time first.
-I'm usually the personality that doesn't give a flying f*#k what others think of me, but there are a few people here at work that just Irritate me! and i don't want them to know, not cuz i'm ashamed (i don't think) but because they're so NOSEY i don't want to give them the satisfaction. not on this...so they get the allergy story...
Best
B2c.
Posted by Speaker on May 10, 2004, at 9:39:26
In reply to Re: The stigma and loneliness of mental illness..., posted by B2chica on May 10, 2004, at 9:09:05
The only person who knows I am in therapy is my husband! I wouldn't have told him if he didn't have to pay for it...expect I am big on honesty in marriage. What I am saying is I want to keep it private. My children don't even know and because my work is out of my home and I make appt's different places all week I don't have to explain my therapy time.
I do feel alone in what I talk about in therapy but I find it safer. My life has been very public and it seems everyone wants to analyze my every move. I will not open the door for them to be a part of the truth of how I really feel.
I wouldn't really know about MI stigma since nobody knows my problems. I think I choose to not share due to the posibility of the stigma!
I am very grateful for BABBLE!!!
Posted by finelinebob on May 10, 2004, at 11:13:10
In reply to Re: The stigma and loneliness of mental illness..., posted by Speaker on May 10, 2004, at 9:39:26
wrt loneliness:
Geez, sjb, what you said about not having a passion hits pretty close to home! For me, though, I don't feel lonely anymore ... I think I fried that part of my brain from overuse! I guess I have a little too much patience as well ... I know one of these days I'm going to "re-engage" with the rest of the world, but right now I don't like the particulars of my life and I don't want people to have to deal with me in this state.wrt stigma:
I'm kinda like gardenergirl on this one. In a past life I was a research psychologist (not clinical) and educator. I felt I had the knowledge and training to be "out" about my disorder and take on people's discomfort about it head-on. I'm not in-your-face about it, but I don't hide it and I treat it as matter-of-fact-ly as I would if I had diabetes.I did pay for my openess on one job, tho. Condescension. Total lack of understanding. I was going through some medication problems and was having some wicked "side" effects. I asked for some "reasonable accommodations", as we are guaranteed to have through the Americans with Disabilities Act (if your disorder is found to have a biological component, you are covered). Well, all I have to say is that the EEOC has a lot of re-education of itself it needs to do. I was told my case basically wasn't important enough -- the discrimination wasn't high profile enough -- for them to bother with me. I lost my job, anyway.
So, I can't blame anyone who feels a need to hide their particulars from co-workers or other associates. All the same, my past experiences aren't going to stop me or change how I approach it. Hah! I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment ... and there is NOTHING anyone can put me through that can compare to what I've put myself through in the past! Wimps!
I don't know how all y'all feel about the term "mental illness", but I refuse to use it ... unless I'm trying to make a point. I don't have an "illness". I haven't been infected or otherwise invaded by some foreign organism. What I have can't be "cured" by pills or bedrest. Not only is there so much stigma tied to the words "mental illness", but the very concept of what an illness is helps perpetuate it. Illnesses are temporary if you have them, and preventable if you don't. If you've caught one, then you must have done something stupid like going out in the cold with wet hair and no coat, only worse.
Okay, so what do I call it? I say I have a chronic neurological disorder. Most people respond with, "What?" and working from that blank slate I think I have a better chance of opening their minds and reforming what they know about depression.
flb
PS. I'm glad I got out of that job. I didn't want to work with such Neanderthals, and it encouraged me to switch careers to something I enjoy much more.
Posted by LG04 on May 10, 2004, at 11:29:20
In reply to The stigma and loneliness of mental illness...., posted by KindGirl on May 10, 2004, at 1:19:37
Hi, I totally relate to what you are saying. I often feel very alone, even though I have many close friends (though most live in the U.S. and I live in Israel so it makes sense that I would feel lonely for them). But even here I have good friends and I still feel so lonely so often. My therapist tries to help me to be able to feel people's love and caring for me because it's so hard for me to take it in. Or, I can feel it at the moment that I am speaking to them or with them, but the moment we hang up or I leave, it disappears. I can't hang on to the feelings of people's caring and love for me.
I have gotten better about telling people that I am in therapy. Even here, in Israel, where it's more of a stigma than in America, I am pretty open about it and find that others are accepting. I am less open about being on anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds. And, for instance, I was just hospitalized for 5 days because I was in such despair and couldn't function anymore and was feeling suicidal, etc., and I hardly told anyone. I lied to work, to friends, to almost everyone.
I think the loneliness thing is hard to beat (but possible)...it's an internal thing...less connected to if we're actually lonely, more connected to how we feel about ourselves. That's how it seems to me anyway.
It's something I really am trying to work on. You're not alone.
LG
Posted by KindGirl on May 10, 2004, at 11:58:08
You guys did and do make me feel better and less lonely. Thanks for everything you all shared.
I don't like the term "mental illness" either. I am at a loss for terminology here because of the inner struggle I have in general with therapy. My therapist would say I am "very deeply injured." I tell her I am crazy or a freak and she says, "no you are not, you are very wounded. You are precious...blah blah blah"...so "mental illness" works for me at this stage because I lack in the self compassion department right now.
One of you said that you hate the thought of therapy (or something like that...sorry, I am rushing)....that it makes you cringe. OMG!!! That is me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Except I don't think of it as something snobs do or upper crust so to speak, but the opposite. Maybe its cuz I live in California and see many deranged homeless crazy people all the time and I say to myself, "there but for the grace of God go I" because I feel like a crazy, homeless person inside even though I live in middle class suburbia! So, I think of therapy like something for weak people or people who are complainers (gee that sounds a lot like my mother talking)...something I need to work on.
I wish I worked with mental health professionals so I could see them on a regular "normal" basis. I do have a sister in law who is a therapist and have connected with her a few times lately, but she is kind of eccentric and hard to connect with in a lot of ways. Professionally she is awesome (from what I hear) but personally she is kind of out there. LOL. It is true. Anyway, rambling...sorry.
But thanks for the ideas and thoughts on this. I find that I have to lie about therapy (my kids don't know either) except to the very few people I have left in my life who are not judgmental. Unfortunately, the two dearest friends I have also have so many injuries inside and are not seeking treatment or help, so I find that I have to keep a lot of my therapeutic experience to myself and that is extremely lonely.
Even here, I notice that therapists have all different styles and philosophies, and I was not prepared for that. I am in therapy for the first time in my life, she is my first therapist, and I have been going now for 2 years. I was convinced I would be cured in 3 sessions but am horrified and shocked at this whole thing and the whole mess inside of me I was completely unaware of all this time.
That being said, even if I were to share here that my therapist holds me every session (and I have shared this and gotten great input) I find that not many therapists do this and I wonder about it. Is she doing something wrong? Is there another way than the way she is leading me? Is there a shortcut here people know about I don't?......you know, all that stuff.
My t. has been a t. for over 20 years and is a well sought out t. in my area, has a waiting list a mile long I guess (someone told me that about her), and so I do feel confident in her knowledge and all. It is just I come here to feel less alone and most of the time it helps but there are major differences in my t. than a lot here and I try not to focus on that because it makes me feel alone "among the lonely"!!!!!
BTW, I love it that she holds me. She is big on attachment theory and I am glad. I know I was left alone forever (forgive me if you already knew this) or it seemed forever, and I never was gently held or nurtured. I fought a lot inside about it, but now that the wall is down and I can ask her to hold me every week (or she asks me) it is easier and I really feel comforted and nurtured in this experience. (just in case you were wondering how it was going). I also know every person is different, has different boundaries and abuse issues, so someone holding you might gross you out or make you freak.
Okay I am just rambling and avoiding working so I need to run!
Oh yeah, one of you said you work out of your home. Me too! So it is very easy to "fib" and tell my kids I have an appt. They are clueless.
Thanks again to all for sharing....
Posted by karen_kay on May 10, 2004, at 12:00:29
In reply to The stigma and loneliness of mental illness...., posted by KindGirl on May 10, 2004, at 1:19:37
strange..... i read through most of the responses and none are similar to my experience. that makes me wonder about my own perception of mental illness, therapy, meds and all of those things.
so, about loneliness during recovery..... no, i don't normally feel that, at least not associated with my own personal experience with mental illness and therapy.
i've always been able to be honest with my family, he!! they're 'crazier' than i am, even if they don't have a dx to back it up. i'm very lucky to have such a wonderful family and truly amazing friends that know me very well and make me feel like i can talk if i need to. so, i don't feel lonely much of the time, at least when i'm not depressed. and even then i don't feel lonely as much as i question, 'why does this have to happen at all.'
i know the limitations that i have with my therapist, my family and my friends. that helps me to accept precisely how much support i can count on from each individual person. but, when one falls short, i know i can always talk to another to receive the support or distraction or laughter that i need to get through. so i don't feel lonely all that often really. i have a few very close friends and a lot of really amazing family members who help me get through when i need it.
about the stigma....yes, i know there is one. i see it all the time on television, here it when people talk, and read about it in the newspaper. i can't say i like hearing it, but it doesn't really get me upset either.
when i'm with my casual friends and they say something like, 'oh, he's bipolar i'd swear. he's moody, ect.' i laugh along too, even though after i laugh i think, 'hey wait! i'm bipolar. am i moody? shouldn't i correct her and tell her the facts, ect.' and when i went to see my mother yesterday, i was invited to another wedding because, 'oh, you just have to go to make it fun. i've heard you're the crazy person who makes evenings entertaining.' i simply said, 'certifiably, and i'd love to attend your wedding. just be careful what you ask for dear.
but, there's also a good side to it as well. a soon to be relative of mine is depressed. and because my sister has a big mouth, this relative talked to me about it. something she couldn't do with her family, since they really haven't been through it and they sort of tell her to snap out of it, or work longer hours. they jsut don't understand and i guess she feels i do.
so yes, i can almost feel the stigma around me at times, especially when i hear about someone who committed a crime but they are mentally ill and somehow people seem to think they go hand in hand. as if everyone who has a mental illness committs a crime, like it's expected. but it doesn't outrage me like it used to. and i understand that people always need a reason when things happen, you know? as if saying, 'she's mentally ill' helps explain things in their minds.
i don't like the stigma and that's one thing i'd like to change a bit 'when i grow up.' i know i've been able to change that misconception in my family's mind and also for my friends. but there are also people who don't know and i'd rather die than tell them. my old man's family for example. and if i have to take medication, i hide to do so. or once his mother saw me taking meds and i jsut said it was an antibiotic, which led to a steam of lies about some sort of flu i'd had. but, i just think telling them would make them more uncomfortable than would be beneficial, as they don't have an type of experience with mental illness in the family and i wouldn't want to be the first! i'm honest to most people if i think it's beneficial (or if i'm manic and jsut won't shut up! that's never fun when you talk too much about things you shouldn't to strangers). and almost everyone knows about therapy, again expect for my boyfriend's parents. i woudn't mind if they knew but i've been in therapy for a while and don;t want them to think something's very wrong with me, even though there's not. but i also think of it this way, i don't know what medications they take and wouldn't dream of asking, so no one should know about mine either unless i decide to tell them.
and i feel that telling everyone may make them a bit too aware of what i'm doing and what i'm taking and if they hear stories they may wonder about me, even if they've known me for quite a while. but, i'd rather people not think i'm moody or hyper because i'm bipolar. that's just me and i think i'd be very much the same without a disorder. it only hightens my personality and characteristics at times.
Posted by B2chica on May 10, 2004, at 12:39:14
In reply to Re: The stigma and loneliness of mental illness.... » KindGirl, posted by karen_kay on May 10, 2004, at 12:00:29
Boy KK, you said a Mouthful!
Knowing the Stigma of "mental Illness" doesn't get me upset so much as makes me want to Change it. Say "i am bipolar and i'm not in jail and not useless because of the disorder. btw-LG04 i prefer affective disorder- i don't like MI either :)
-TV is especially bad for promoting the negative stigma.KK i've been around some work colleagues and they joke about our engineer as being bipolar cuz of his moods, and i just want to say, you know there's alot more to being bipolar than having a few hyper and disappointment days.
>"i simply said, 'certifiably, and i'd love to attend your wedding. just be careful what you ask for dear."
-I LOVE IT.> but, there's also a good side to it as well. a soon to be relative of mine is depressed. and this relative talked to me about it.
-this is a WONDERFUL outcome, a blessing.>"i'm honest to most people if i think it's beneficial (or if i'm manic and jsut won't shut up! that's never fun when you talk too much about things you shouldn't to strangers)."
God I HATE THIS!! i'm a very private person but when i get manic man i actually feel sick to my stomach at how much i blab when i get this way! -thank goodness this batch of meds have been working.
>"but, i'd rather people not think i'm moody or hyper because i'm bipolar. that's just me and i think i'd be very much the same without a disorder. it only hightens my personality and characteristics at times."BINGO!!!
when i got my initial Dx, this was honest to God my biggest fear. that ALL my feelings would become invalid over my Dx. that i would be happy or angry cuz i was manic or that i was sad or upset or even just Quiet! cuz i was depressed! i am who i am. i didn't just all of a sudden "become" bipolar, i've never known anything else. i FEEL. I AM. just let me be me.B2c.
Posted by sjb on May 10, 2004, at 13:09:58
In reply to Re: The stigma and loneliness of mental illness...., posted by LG04 on May 10, 2004, at 11:29:20
> I think the loneliness thing is hard to beat (but possible)...it's an internal thing...less connected to if we're actually lonely, more connected to how we feel about ourselves. That's how it seems to me anyway.
LG,
Excellent point about lonliness being an internal thing, about how we feel about ourselves. I know I'm the most lonely when my confidence/self-esteem is very low (and it ain't ever high!). I think that's why I stuggle so much with trying to achieve external things, 'cause I feel so inadequate on the inside. It's like I never feel good enough and keep striving, striving.
I don't think this is uncommon with a lot us, unfortuantely. Therapy is helping, slowly, but helping.
I hope you are feeling better and remember you are not alone no matter where you are geographically. We're all "close by."
Posted by sjb on May 10, 2004, at 13:20:53
In reply to Re: The stigma and loneliness of mental illness.... » KindGirl, posted by karen_kay on May 10, 2004, at 12:00:29
> i've always been able to be honest with my family, he!! they're 'crazier' than i am, even if they don't have a dx to back it up.
Ain't that the truth. My friends that know about my struggles say I'm the the sanest one in the family. A lot of people do the denial thing, their choice, and if it works for them fine. I"m not judging, but I think those of us who've "been treated" have a special window into the world that others can't or won't see. I'm not saying that one should just see the bleak, but it's a sensitivity to all around us that I think is hightened when one is depressed, bi-bolar, etc.
Envy you and your non-lonlieness. Hope I get there!
Posted by lifeworthliving on May 10, 2004, at 13:28:31
In reply to The stigma and loneliness of mental illness...., posted by KindGirl on May 10, 2004, at 1:19:37
> Does anyone else do this or has done this? It is just something I am noticing and wanted your thoughts.
sometimes not having anyone to talk to about therapy is lonely but i'm not lonely in general... is that what you are asking? i do sometimes wish i had other people to ask about my experience of therapy. i dont tell too many people that i take anti depressants but i'm not sure that i'm ashamed of it. just figured there was no reason to make people wonder about whether or not i'm stable, or invite questions i might not to answer. i'm a college student (soc work major) and thoroughly enjoy all of my classes... learning more about myself and what happens in therapy. i'm still not always sure how it works, or how i changed? all this growth and happiness from talking and crying? (and holding her hand, too?)i just love the whole topic so much and am anxious to learn all i can. what a neat thing to be able to do this with someone... to make a difference, ya know?
Posted by lonelygirl on May 10, 2004, at 16:29:59
In reply to Re: The stigma and loneliness of mental illness...., posted by sjb on May 10, 2004, at 8:58:56
I am very secretive about both meds and therapy... The only people who should know about the meds are my pdoc and my parents. My prescription plan is even mail-order, so I don't even have to go to the drug store for it! I live alone, so I never have to deal with anyone seeing me take my meds.
As for the therapy, I don't tell anyone -- even my parents. I guess it's not as hard for me as for many of you, since I live alone and don't have any friends or a significant other; I pretty much come and go as I please and nobody knows or cares where I’m going.
I am also terribly embarrassed about therapy. The only reason I went in the first place was that I was forced to. I would never have been able to do it if I hadn’t been forced. After I was done with the required number of sessions, I decided to continue on my own, and I just feel guilty and embarrassed about having to admit that I actually want to go. I feel like I have to justify going. That's part of the reason I don't plan to go any more once I graduate and can't see my current psychologist any more. It was ok when I was forced to go (and I sort of justify it to myself that way, even though it’s my choice now), but I am too embarrassed to initiate it on my own.
I can't completely put my finger on the reasons why I am so embarrassed about it. Part of it is that, yeah, it kind of seems like a "yuppie" thing. Another part is the stigma of admitting I have problems. Another part is that I have always considered myself rather independent. I do things by myself. I am supposed to be strong, to deal with things on my own. I feel like I'm not supposed to need anybody's help with anything, and if I do, it feels like a huge failure on my part. Yeah, I know, I know, they say getting help is a sign of strength, but that’s not how it feels to me.
All of this, of course, is what is so nice about Babble… I can be open about this stuff and not embarrassed about it… So, well, thanks everyone, for being here.
Posted by harryp on May 10, 2004, at 21:17:24
In reply to The stigma and loneliness of mental illness...., posted by KindGirl on May 10, 2004, at 1:19:37
I keep my appointments, and meds secret from most people. Sometimes I'll mention that I have problems with depression and anxiety, because "everyone" has that now :-}
(of course I don't describe the feeling of my soul being sucked out of my body, wanting to off myself on average once a week [actually this is much better than last year] etc.)The "scary" dx's I keep totally and completely confidential. They could really cause serious discrimination and trouble with my educational and professional goals. I don't consider "lying" to be wrong if someone asks a personal question that puts you in an awkward position.
I'm glad that your t. is trying to get through your loneliness. I'm very lonely myself, although I'm lucky to have some good friends (in other cities, unfortunately). Social situations scare me and wear me out, though, so it's hard for me to get to know people.
Posted by finelinebob on May 10, 2004, at 21:42:20
In reply to Re: The stigma and loneliness of mental illness... » KindGirl, posted by harryp on May 10, 2004, at 21:17:24
> The "scary" dx's I keep totally and completely confidential. They could really cause serious discrimination and trouble with my educational and professional goals. I don't consider "lying" to be wrong if someone asks a personal question that puts you in an awkward position.
Okay, question for the lawyers out there:As I understand it, a dx that implicates a biological component qualifies one as disabled under the ADA. To what extent is one protected from revealing one's disability? Is simple omission okay? Is lying to prevent revealing your disability okay? If no, what if it has nothing to do with your job performance ... is it any of your employer's business then?
I know you must disclose your condition if you are looking to claim some reasonable accommodation from your employer, but what if you want to keep your condition private and it does not significantly interefere with your job performance?
Anybody, anybody? ... Bueller?
flb
Posted by LG04 on May 11, 2004, at 6:22:45
In reply to Re: The stigma and loneliness of mental illness...., posted by sjb on May 10, 2004, at 13:09:58
Posted by karen_kay on May 11, 2004, at 8:41:48
In reply to Re: The stigma and loneliness of mental illness..., posted by finelinebob on May 10, 2004, at 21:42:20
sorry, i don't know your answer. i just keep giggling from the joke. i often say that when people don't answer me.... 'bueller. bueller' still waiting...
Posted by harryp on May 11, 2004, at 17:57:30
In reply to Re: The stigma and loneliness of mental illness..., posted by finelinebob on May 10, 2004, at 21:42:20
Medical records and dx's are confidential. You don't have to reveal them to any private employer. An employer can always fire you, but at least in Texas there's nothing else they can do to you if you lie or omit information on a job application.
The exception would be government forms, where it would be illegal to falsify information. i.e. falsely state you had no mental dx's, etc.
In short, you can't lie to the government (although you can refuse to answer questions) but unless you are seeking federal or state employment, security clearance, etc. it shouldn't be an issue.
Posted by ghost on May 13, 2004, at 23:29:09
In reply to The stigma and loneliness of mental illness...., posted by KindGirl on May 10, 2004, at 1:19:37
i struggle with loneliness and stigma often.
i think it was the loneliness that ultimatley put me in the hospital last week. i have the babblers, and they saved me. but in a room full of people, i always feel this empty void that can never be filled. no matter what. loneliness is a dangerous thing. 9 times out of 10 i too lie about where i'm going when i go to T or pdoc appts, what pills i'm taking, and what ailments i suffer from. i think that health (mental and physical) is extremely personal, and none of anyones business, and i try to protect it at all costs. i am learning that hiding it does not always help, so i am trying to open up to those i am close to, but employers are not on that last. last summer when i first started seeing a pdoc and T, i lied about a knee injury that was bothering me, limped a lot around my lab, and said i had to go to the doctors on campus several times a week to get it checked out. it was extreme, but it worked.
the stigma bothers me, as does any stigma. i worry that my parents now have to face the stigma associated with having a bipolar daughter with borderline and schitzo tendencies. their daughter who put herself through college with honors and couldn't hack grad school. must be a failure, right? on the other hand, i think the two (loneliness and stigma) are intertwined: if we aren't open about it (in the right situations) we're only perpetuating the stigma.
it's almost a catch 22. damned if you do, damned if you don't.
i'm not sure what the right answer is.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 13, 2004, at 23:58:09
In reply to Re: The stigma and loneliness of mental illness.... » KindGirl, posted by ghost on May 13, 2004, at 23:29:09
oh ghost, I hope that your parents' reaction as you described is not your own feeling. Mood disorders can be absolutely disabling. If you were dealing with a chronic physical ailment, no one would make assumptions or judgements about not finishing grad school. Why should it be any different for you? We all do the best we can with what we are given to deal with everyday. Taking care of yourself is the number one priority. You have to master that in times of stress and challenges before you can master more challenging things. And that's okay. I know it sounds like Stuart Smalley, but we do the best we can. And that's okay. To heck with what others' may believe or assume.
(((ghost)))
gg
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 14, 2004, at 8:11:50
In reply to Re: The stigma and loneliness of mental illness.... » ghost, posted by gardenergirl on May 13, 2004, at 23:58:09
> oh ghost, I hope that your parents' reaction as you described is not your own feeling...
Sorry to keep doing this, but I'd also like to redirect this thread to Psycho-Social-Babble. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20040507/msgs/346727.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by shadows721 on May 16, 2004, at 4:17:55
In reply to Re: The stigma and loneliness of mental illness.... » KindGirl, posted by ghost on May 13, 2004, at 23:29:09
Oh, boy, I really can relate to a lot of what you said. I too graduated with honors in the medical field and my mind seemed to fall apart. That wasn't in my plans. I too raised myself and now it's like a Ripvanwinkle story. I am an adult and I am suppose to know what every one else was taught as a kid. Isolation - is a comfortor and an abuser at the same time with me. I am alone and I feel the a stamp is on my life "She has PTSD." It's affected everything down to my belief in God. I feel like would someone give me the book on how to get my mind to function right, so I can live my dreams now.
Oh, I feel that mental illness isolates, because no one can see the mental pain that one is in. I look normal, but I am in mental anguish. No one can see it, so I am expected to live like others - have a home of my own, a job, kids, etc. It isn't happening, because my mind is affected.
This is the end of the thread.
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