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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by karen_kay on April 6, 2004, at 20:54:49
ohhhhhhhhh, i'm so mad right now i can't see. and it took me about 10 hours to get mad too. i called yesterday to cancel group because i've been depressed. i didn't want to go. instead bubba suggested an individual session afterwards. so, i made it there, with NO makeup. (clue bubba, big clue) there was a new girl and me, that's all that showed up, perhaps that's why he wanted me to go? in the session, the new girl mentioned she was dx borderline and i snapped my neck at bubba and said (as i constantly question him about my dx) "do you hand that dx out to every girl our age?" this started a huge debate between them. he got red-faced and even admitted to being upset and having a "complex" about being right and challenged. i smiled a couple of times. bubba turned to me and asked "how are you feeling?" i said "amused" and said to the girl, "not at your expense dear." i was glad that someone questioned him about it. i was glad that she was able to convey what i was not. and i was glad i was able to be amused for the time being.
after the session, i said, "so, are we going to our individual session now?" bubba said, "well, you appear to be better. i want to keep everything in group and don't want to wear myself thin. i'll see you next week."
so, i guess i'm not really depresssed, eh? since i was smiling and all. i suppose it's just completely impossible to smile when you see your therapist make a mule out of himself while you're depressed? thanks bubba, for proving once again that your feelings are SO much more important than mine!
even my old man is upset. that takes a lot. he did say i shouldn't have pointed out about the dx in front of the girl (pardon me??). but, he's going to defend my honor tomorrow and go beat bubba up.
now, please tell me, am i wrong on this? he messed up here, right? it's ok to smile and still have an apt, right? he was letting the challenging get in the way, correct? i'm honestly considering not going back. i'm tired of his horse sh!t emotions, as i've enough of my own. and i entered into this process group under the assumption that i could have an individual session when i needed it, not be punished if i point something out. i honestly wasn't trying to start something. just pointing out a concern.
Posted by Dinah on April 6, 2004, at 21:46:12
In reply to bubba makes me ANGRY!!!!, posted by karen_kay on April 6, 2004, at 20:54:49
He's wrong. Period.
He had a session scheduled with you and it was completely unprofessional to back out of it. No matter what. No matter if he was feeling angry at being challenged. No matter that the group isn't going the way he planned. Wear himself thin? He had the appointment with you *scheduled*. You came to group solely because he scheduled the appointment.
It just isn't very professional of him. I can't even imagine in my wildest dreams my therapist doing that. I can imagine wishing I'd never had a session, but I can't see him cancelling it.
Posted by Joslynn on April 6, 2004, at 22:24:10
In reply to Re: bubba makes me ANGRY!!!! » karen_kay, posted by Dinah on April 6, 2004, at 21:46:12
I don't see how he can just change his mind and it does make one wonder if he felt threatened by your challenge. If he's a therapist, and he wants to do group therapy, he should have a strong enough ego to handle confrontation.
Regarding smiling...when I was so, so depressed that I woke up every morning at 3:30, couldn't eat, imagined driving into a tree, drowning myself, etc., I still had the ability to give a fake smile. Like so many women, I learned to cover my feelings with a pretty smile. It was only at the very worst of it, before I ended up in the hospital, that I couldn't even do the fake smile.
Afterwards, some people said, we didn't know you were depressed because you could still smile. You expect your average non-therapist layperson to say that, but I even had a doctor use the smile factor as a puzzling "affect" that didn't fit his diagnosis, though later he figured out it was a mask.
Similar thing with a friend of mine. She kept smiling and people pleasing when she was in a hospital for severe depression. One counselor said, I don't think you belong in here. Another more experienced counselor said, you belong here more than anyone else, because you are not even dealing with your problems, you are still just smiling and trying to take care of everyone else. I think the more experienced counselor even corrected the less experienced one, who was taken in by the smile.
It is amazing that if you are a pretty woman with a cute smile, people think it means there is no pain behind that.
Of course, I should have not resorted to the smile as a defense, but when you get used to random men on the street saying "a pretty girl like you should smile" etc., as if it is your obligation to smile, it gets ingrained. (Not that I oblige when men say that.)
It just amazes me that even with all we know about therapy etc., and the roles people feel forced to play by society, there are still therapists who think a smile=not depressed, no problems.
So...just my diatribe on the smile thing, I totally get how you would feel when you realize that you are being misjudged because of a smile.
It's kind of ironic.
I know I was part of the problem too by hiding behind a fake smile, but it's not just me who contributes to the syndrome. The world wants to see a woman smile.
I am sorry you are going through this. I know what it's like to feel disappointed. I think he should have met with you to discuss the incident, not just slunk out of the appointment. (And I am not saying I think you fake smile, but what he said does kind of bring up the subject of misjudged smiles.)
Posted by gardenergirl on April 6, 2004, at 22:28:29
In reply to Re: bubba makes me ANGRY!!!!, posted by Joslynn on April 6, 2004, at 22:24:10
Posted by DaisyM on April 6, 2004, at 22:55:42
In reply to bubba makes me ANGRY!!!!, posted by karen_kay on April 6, 2004, at 20:54:49
Karen,
You are totally right. He lost his cool to his own stuff...it was NOT your fault. I can't believe it took you 10 hours to get mad.
I can't imagine in a million years my Therapist cancelling on me like that. He tells me he wants me to bring it all into sessions, good moods and bad, so it doesn't matter if I'm smiling or not. And he CONSTANTLY reminds me it is not my job to look after him, so the remark about spreading himself thin was really out of line.
I would call, tell him how you feel, drop the group and ask for another Therapist for individual counseling. IMO, 2 clients do not make a group anyway.
I'm sorry you've been depressed. I'm sure this didn't help. Anything I can do to help? You've been quiet lately...I looked for you in open today and yesterday. Hopefully I'll catch you tomorrow.
Daisy
Posted by All Done on April 7, 2004, at 2:16:32
In reply to bubba makes me ANGRY!!!!, posted by karen_kay on April 6, 2004, at 20:54:49
Karen,
Bubba should never have canceled, but I think you need to talk to him about it. I know he did it because of his own issues and you aren't responsible for helping him with his problems, but what he did hurt you and that's what you need to discuss. (All this, unless, of course, you really are ready to just dump him altogether.) Maybe you can write down what you're feeling right now and then save it until Monday. See how you're feeling then and decide if you are going to group on Tuesday.
I'm sorry he put you in this position and especially at a time when you need his support. Bad Bubba :(.
Take care of yourself, sweetie.
All Done
Posted by fallsfall on April 7, 2004, at 8:38:03
In reply to bubba makes me ANGRY!!!!, posted by karen_kay on April 6, 2004, at 20:54:49
Karen,
Bubba was absolutely wrong.
Let's talk about this group for a minute. Where were all the rest of the people? What are the rules of the group? Groups I have been in required a commitment on my part for a particular period of time - I was required to be there (if I didn't come I still had to pay). Groups only work if there is continuity. Second, I have never been in a process group (as opposed to a skills training group) where new members have showed up unannounced. Usually, the therapist would mention 2 or 3 weeks ahead of time that they were talking with a potential new member - and we had a chance to prepare ourselves for someone new coming in.
I hate to say it, Karen, but these are further examples of inexperience, and how his inexperience can hurt you.
I can't believe that he backed out on your individual appointment. (I'm trying to shut my mouth, but it is still hanging open in amazement)
I think that you would make really good use of therapy with an experienced therapist. I hope that you will give yourself that opportunity.
P.S. a teenager leaving home will often make her parents so mad - because it is easier to leave when you are both angry. Maybe this is your opportunity.
Posted by joslynn on April 7, 2004, at 8:49:29
In reply to Re: bubba makes me ANGRY!!!! » karen_kay, posted by fallsfall on April 7, 2004, at 8:38:03
Karen, I just reread your post. Sorry I went off on my long smiling diatribe. I seem to be in a bit of a bizarre mood, PMS and allergies, but anyway, let me get this straight...
You called to cancel group, He said, no come in and then he scheduled an individual session for afterwards. Then, you went to group, and he cancelled the invidividual session with you that he had scheduled.
Is that correct? When you said he suggested an individual session, does that mean it was definite?
If so, he should not have cancelled the session, unless it was for a family emergency.
It sounds like he lured you into the group session with the promise of an individual session, then when he got you in group, cancelled the session that was your whole incentive to go. It sounds manipulative on his part, like a bait and switch.
Am I misunderstanding? The only part I wasn't sure about is when you said he "suggested" a session, did you say yes and he made a definite appointment. If so, then he cancelled a scheduled appointment on a whim, and that is not professional IMO.
And he worries about spreading himself thin! This is for you, not him.
The group does seem kind of unorganized too.
((((Karen)))
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 7, 2004, at 9:23:54
In reply to bubba makes me ANGRY!!!!, posted by karen_kay on April 6, 2004, at 20:54:49
karen,
I think this is the mark of a young, inexperienced therapist. He apparently can't stand being challenged. What he did was ridiculous. You deserve better my dear.
Posted by EmmyS on April 7, 2004, at 9:36:54
In reply to Re: bubba makes me ANGRY!!!!, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 7, 2004, at 9:23:54
KK - Me and da girls are gunna pay him a little visit. He needs a little re-education.
If you are going to continue to see this man, either in group or 1/1 sessions, you gotta talk to him about his behavior and how it impacts you. If he does not own up to his mis-step...that would seem significant.
Hugs to you sweet KK.
Em
Posted by terrics on April 7, 2004, at 10:22:17
In reply to bubba makes me ANGRY!!!!, posted by karen_kay on April 6, 2004, at 20:54:49
He messed up big time! terrics
Posted by karen_kay on April 7, 2004, at 12:47:01
In reply to Re: bubba makes me ANGRY!!!! » karen_kay, posted by terrics on April 7, 2004, at 10:22:17
first of all thank you all!!
i think what i'm going to is send him a thank you card. thank him for helping me so much in the past. and he really has helped me so very much, to which i honestly could never repay him.
but, i have learned his limits as well. and i'm not willing to try to test those limits, nor am i ready to accept those limits, as they just aren't healthy for me. and it's not my job to attempt to point it out. it would be nice to be able to help him help not only myself, but also other clients, but i'm too selfish to keep at it. so, at this point i'm giving up on bubba :(
i'll send him (what i hope to be) a very sincere thank you card. (and i hope he doesn't take it as me being manipulating, as i'm honestly not trying to do that) (and another thing, i think he's engrained in my head that i'm manipulating and that's why i think i am! i want to tell him that! but i won't) i'm just going to send him a card thanking him sincerely for all of his truly wonderful work (which is the honest to god's truth). thank him for being not only a wonderful therapist, but also a wonderful person as well. and just let him know that i don't think at this point group is my best option, that i don't feel it's working for me, not a reflection on him in any way. i'll wish him the best, though i know he doesn't need wishes, tell him that even though he's amazing, he'll be even more amazing in a few years. and also tell him that i really do value the time we had together, as it really has changed me as a person. i hope that he sees my card as being sincere. my only fear is that he won't.
i'll really miss bubba, but i think that the skills and strategies i've learned from him have honestly changed me. and i don't want to take a chance of back-sliding while in this group, you know? or getting an impression of him i don't want to have from seeing him in group. and he's beginning to show that. i'll start searching for a different therapist once i start feeling myself again, if i honestly feel i need one. perhaps at this point, i really don't. i've been reading some of my old posts and it's amazing how much i've changed in such a short amount of time. perhaps it's time for a break?
and joslynn, yes, we had a shceduled apt and he backed out right at the time of the apt. he's never done this in the past, so it's not something he does on a regular basis or anything like that. he let his emotions get the best of him and that happens. i understand that. i can forgive that. what hurts me the most is him saying "you seem better" when i specifically told him before starting group "are you goign to be able to see when i'm not myself?" and he promised he would. that;'s what hurts the most. when i saw him for the past year, i always wore makeup, even when i was so overmedicated i couldn't shower and thought my dog was going to kill me. it just seemed like he knew but didn't care, like he was specifically punishing me for pointing something out that he was unsure of. something that he knows bothers me to be dx with. and i left feeling overwhelmed anyway. and he just didn't care. but, i'd rather remember the good things he's done than the not so good choices he's made, i suppose. and i guess if he gets down on his hands and knees and begs me to take him back, i'll reconsider? fat chance that'll happen though.. too bad for bubba, there's a world of therapists that'll love to have me as a client anyway. (looking on the bright side, looking on the bright side)
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2004, at 18:43:31
In reply to me thinks..., posted by karen_kay on April 7, 2004, at 12:47:01
I'm sorry, Karen Kay. :(
You do really sound very healthy and mature about all of this. Far more so than I would be.
But take extra special care of yourself, ok?
Posted by Joslynn on April 7, 2004, at 21:52:13
In reply to Re: me thinks... » karen_kay, posted by Dinah on April 7, 2004, at 18:43:31
I like the things you said you would write in the card. It's great that you can see both the good and the bad and want to remember the good more. Yes you do seem a lot more confident and I am sure knowing him had something to do with that, although as my therapist always likes to say, "you did all the work."
I wonder...would it be an idea to say goodbye in person in one last session, just for some closure? Or do you feel like the card will be better, since you have already mentally said goodbye?
This is the end of the thread.
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