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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by pegasus on February 23, 2004, at 13:42:27
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by Joslynn on February 23, 2004, at 9:11:07
I thought I understood that Ms Schmidt was saying that if the disclosure about sexual attraction was designed to somehow foster an environment that was therapeutically beneficial to the client, then it would generally be seen as ok. But, of course, it's easy to imagine lots of situations where that type of disclosure wouldn't be about helping the client's therapy.
My old T once told me that he would tell me anything about himself, if it seemed like that would be helpful for my therapy. And, at a couple of points in my therapy he did tell me very personal things, which - in the context of what we'd been talking about - did make a difference in how I approached those issues. I think in one case it was a misjudgement, and made me hesitate to self-disclose on that particular topic in the future. In the another case, it was very helpful, and really opened up some areas that had been difficult in the past. I appreciated him taking those risks, and I trust that he was motivated by helping me - not by gratifying his own needs. So that seems ok to me.
- p
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 14:05:18
In reply to from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by Dr. Bob on February 23, 2004, at 8:47:54
I guess I'll stop worrying about it then. Or at least stop saying I'm worried.
Posted by pegasus on February 23, 2004, at 14:48:03
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 14:05:18
I appreciated your saying that you were worried. I think it's a worrisome thing, too.
I think a lot of self-disclosure doesn't follow the rule of "is this for the client's therapeutic benefit". And that even if it does, it can be damaging to therapy (as in the case of my T's misjudged disclosure, which caused a few problems even though motivated by wanting to help me). Personally, I think this is really tricky business, and T's need to be thinking about it pretty carefully when they disclose stuff.
And at the same time, I always enjoy it when my T discloses stuff. Even when it's bad for me. Which only makes the responsibility on the T that much more serious, IMHO.
So, thanks for bringing it up.
- p
Posted by tabitha on February 23, 2004, at 15:46:31
In reply to from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by Dr. Bob on February 23, 2004, at 8:47:54
I guess my therapist is from the same school (figuratively). When I ask questions I always get 'what would it mean to you if I were?' or something of that ilk.
Her office is so blah.. beigey and mild southwestern theme prints. Nothing has changed in ten years except a couple of plants. I swear it reveals nothing.
Posted by tabitha on February 23, 2004, at 15:47:48
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 14:05:18
> I guess I'll stop worrying about it then. Or at least stop saying I'm worried.
Here's a therapist-like question for you: What does it mean to you when you hear others talk about their therapists revealing personal details?
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 16:25:16
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » Dinah, posted by tabitha on February 23, 2004, at 15:47:48
Do you mean do I want my therapist to disclose his sexuality or whether he finds me sexually attractive? No.
Do you mean that it bothers me to think of therapists as sexual beings who see their clients in a sexual way? Perhaps.
Do I worry that my therapist gets an erection in the office? Ick. Perhaps yes. Where is he sitting? He doesn't have a usual chair... Fortunately there's that whole eunuch thing.
Do I worry that he gets one with me? No, thank heavens. :)
Do I still have issues with the fact that my father made me stop sitting on my lap at puberty, which not only made me think of him as a man, but meant that he thought of me as a sexual being? Yes. Eueewwwww. Ick. Ick.
Mostly I was worried that the board in general was doing something that could prove to cause hurt to clients in the long run, and OCD me didn't want to be part of that. But if the practice is considered ok by Dr. Bob's guest expert, that lets me off the hook. I'm certainly no expert. I'm not sure I'll encourage it, but I won't worry about it any more. I could use a bit less worry in my life.
Posted by Crooked Heart on February 24, 2004, at 8:09:59
In reply to Re: Erika Schmidt, LCSW - therapist self disclosure » Dinah, posted by terrics on February 22, 2004, at 14:43:46
Just picking my lower jaw up from the floor, terrics. And she was being PAID for this!!?
Posted by Karen_kay on February 24, 2004, at 11:43:09
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 14:05:18
I think it's wonderful that you are worried about this. I don't see it as having anything really to do with you and your therapist. I see it as genuine concern. I'm thrilled you are looking out for our best interests. That's quite a wonderful trait you possess. And I'm happy for it. Please, don't stop posting your concerns about this mattter. It makes some of us really concentrate on the issue and evaluate the context in which self-disclosure is made. I truly appreciate it, and I wouldn't want it any other way! Thank you for being so helpful and helping us to evaluate things we never would have before!
Posted by tabitha on February 24, 2004, at 15:45:32
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » tabitha, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 16:25:16
I just wondered what kind of discomfort you had Dinah, and thought I'd invite you to share about it. I didn't have any ideas in mind.
When I hear about the disclosures I'm generally glad my therp doesn't do likewise. Although I would welcome if she'd share more of her insights about my issues and my progress. I have to drag that stuff out of her. I think sometimes she wants to avoid having me get too goal-oriented and intellectual about my progress... but I'm just guessing.
OTOH, sometimes I feel like the odd person out since she and I *don't* get into all the transference and relationships stuff folks describe here, you know? It ties into my general fear that I'm just too cold or something.
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2004, at 22:21:24
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » Dinah, posted by tabitha on February 24, 2004, at 15:45:32
I hope I didn't sound snippy, Tabitha. It's been a rough few days. But I was just evaluating myself honestly and thoroughly in light of your question. I am aware that I've got issues in the area of sex, but after carefully considering, I don't think they were in play in my concerns.
I doubt that the lack of transference has anything to do with coldness on your part, Tabitha. As you can see, we all deal with our therapists differently.
Do you miss feeling deeply for your therapist? I think I'd hate wanting from him something he couldn't give, and I worry some about wanting what I want from him, for fear he will eventually be unable to give that. He *has* convinced me not to worry too much about it though. Still, it's not all that pleasant. Do you feel like you could change therapists (at least) without feeling too upset about it? If so, you may be among the luckier of us... They seem to desert us all too frequently one way or another.
Posted by tabitha on February 24, 2004, at 23:11:12
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » tabitha, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2004, at 22:21:24
> I hope I didn't sound snippy, Tabitha.
Not snippy.. maybe a little distressed? It's so hard to tell with text.
>It's been a rough few days. But I was just evaluating myself honestly and thoroughly in light of your question. I am aware that I've got issues in the area of sex, but after carefully considering, I don't think they were in play in my concerns.
I hope your days have settled. Don't we all have issues with sexuality? (Please say yes so I'll feel normal. ) So I think I understand your concern about the disclosure.. sort of a mama bear thing? Concerned for the others?
>
> Do you miss feeling deeply for your therapist? <snip> Do you feel like you could change therapists (at least) without feeling too upset about it?I don't know. I kind of wonder why I've never gotten a big crush on her-- since obsessive crushes were my theme for a few years there. I definitely don't feel I could change therapists. Whenever I vaguely consider moving away from this town I realize I could leave everything except my therapist... but it doesn't feel like an emotional attachment-- more like I've got really difficult hair and she's the only stylist on earth who can manage it. -pause to think- Hmm, probably my hair isn't half so unusual and complicated as I imagine. But I'm not leaving.
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2004, at 23:27:50
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » Dinah, posted by tabitha on February 24, 2004, at 23:11:12
Or maybe you're more attached than you think?
Posted by tabitha on February 25, 2004, at 0:03:52
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » tabitha, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2004, at 23:27:50
> Or maybe you're more attached than you think?
>What, me attached? No way... I just really really treasure her unique intellectual insights ;-)
Posted by terrics on February 25, 2004, at 16:36:39
In reply to Re: Erika Schmidt, LCSW - therapist self disclosure » terrics, posted by Crooked Heart on February 24, 2004, at 8:09:59
Yep, she was being paid. I wrote something on your new thread.
She changed her style today. We'll see if things improve.
terrics
Posted by terrics on February 25, 2004, at 16:39:37
In reply to Re: Erika Schmidt, LCSW - therapist self disclosure, posted by terrics on February 25, 2004, at 16:36:39
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 4, 2004, at 23:04:47
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by Joslynn on February 23, 2004, at 9:11:07
> I am still curious though, what would be your response to the specific questions Dinah asked about therapists revealing sexual attraction etc.?
I cannot judge whether such a disclosure was warranted in any particular situation because I don't know enough about it, therefore I kept my remarks general. However, I would tend to think quite conservatively on this issue for two basic reasons. First, disclosure of sexual attraction may easily move therapy off the main focus of exploration of the client's issues. Because the therapeutic relationship is such an intimate one that such disclosures may easily skew things in an unproductive way. And second, disclosure of sexual attraction is rarely a straightforward and simple matter of yes or no, so that what may be spoken in an effort to open up trust or other issues can become quickly way more complicated and tangled, and may obscure more important matters. No matter what is actually said, much is left unsaid. Exploring why the issue comes up in the way it does and what it means to the client, without direct disclosure, in my experience, is a more therapeutic approach. Another problem is that once such disclosures are made, it is difficult to assess their therapeutic value and actual impact as both therapist and client may rationalize and justify it because it is so complicated and non-straightforward.
Erika Schmidt, LCSW
Posted by Joslynn on March 5, 2004, at 8:15:22
In reply to more from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by Dr. Bob on March 4, 2004, at 23:04:47
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 5, 2004, at 16:57:31
In reply to more from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by Dr. Bob on March 4, 2004, at 23:04:47
Can someone please help me here? I am just not too sharp today..I need this clarified. Is she saying that if a T "IS" sexually attracted to a client he/she should not say???? I got lost here...not hard for me to do lately lol
Thank you
Posted by shortelise on March 5, 2004, at 18:30:25
In reply to Re: more from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » Dr. Bob, posted by Fallen4myT on March 5, 2004, at 16:57:31
She is saying it is NOT a great idea.
ShortE
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 5, 2004, at 18:42:53
In reply to Re: more from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by shortelise on March 5, 2004, at 18:30:25
>Thank you ShortE...I thought that was what she was saying but then got confused. Personally, in my case I wish my T would say but I am glad to have this understood. Again thanks for the help
She is saying it is NOT a great idea.
>
> ShortE
Posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 15:39:09
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » Dinah, posted by tabitha on February 24, 2004, at 23:11:12
I am obviously viewing this two years later than it was posted. I am intrigued. I am extremely curious about how my therapist really feels about me. Basically, does he have any feelings of attraction for me? What would I do with this information? Nothing. But, I have been wondering about this for 6 months and trying to guess at the answer. He is very careful to be neutral on the subject and I doubt he would even answer if I asked directly. If only there was some way to know? Any advice? Thanks. I am very preoccupied by this.
Posted by ShortElise on February 3, 2007, at 17:43:38
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 15:39:09
Part of the therepeutic process can be to work out other relationships with our therapists. If you're wondering about it, talk about it. The more aspects of your feelings about your T (and anybody else!) you can talk about, the better. A well trained T will treat you and your feelings with respect, and will understand that he is a stand-in for others in your life. It's not about HIM, it's about YOU. They know that.
It's not easy.
Therapy world as I see it...
Posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 23:34:40
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » widget, posted by ShortElise on February 3, 2007, at 17:43:38
Yes, but will I ever know how he feels about me? It would make an enormous difference to me. He is so kind and accepting which certainly feels liked love. But, if only I could read his mind...What should I do?
Posted by ShortElise on February 4, 2007, at 0:01:17
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » ShortElise, posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 23:34:40
What should you do? Well, what I have done is accept that my T respects me, that he is a good T, that he feels some affection for me at times, that he feels annoyed with me at times, that I bore him sometimes, and that we don't talk about his feelings unless it's helpful to my therapy.
If a T begins to have feelings for client/patients that are inappropriate s/he would, I think, go to see an advisor (I can't think of the right word for that at the moment) and if it can't be resolved - by the T outside of the relationship with his client - the T sends that client on to someone else.
I think there are lots of kinds of love. I love my cats, I love pasta with smoked salmon cream sauce, I love my husband, and I love a long, hot bath after a hard day. I love my best friend, and I love my old jeans. What I feel from my T doesn't fit into any of those loves. And if I call it feeling cared about, feeling safe, feeling respected and seen and heard - that's not love. That's more important than feeling he loves me. I don't need him to love me. I need him to care, hear, see, listen, and respect. But none of it has to do with touching or loving.
Were he ever to say to me that he loves me, I would lose faith in him, and in the therapy I've had with him. There have been times when he's had feelings that I've picked up on - anger, frustration, fatigue - and that have affected my therapy, so we've talked about them, but he always takes responsibility for his own feelings. And I can tell sometimes that he's feeling affection toward me. It's lovely. But I don't want to be loved by him. He's a fine man, my age, nice to look at, intelligent, very well educated, has varied interests, a family, etc. but I just want him to be my therapist, and to continue to be a kind, caring therapist. And for his sake, I hope he doesn't love me. It would have to be a strange kind of love .. he has so many patients, and if he loved some of us, it would be so hard for him.
I hope this all makes sense and is in some way helpful.
SE
Posted by Daisym on February 4, 2007, at 0:15:01
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » ShortElise, posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 23:34:40
The question is, would you believe him even if he told you? There is always that voice that says,
"this is his job. He HAS to say he cares about me."How long have you been in therapy with this therapist? After 3 1/2 years with mine, he still reminds me that what he says is less important that what I feel from him and implicitly know. However, he will answer my questions, he does tell me he cares about me and we talk about "our" relationship all the time.
I would encourage you to take the leap and talk about your feelings for your therapist. I think you will be surprised how it opens up your therapy.
btw, for what it's worth, these are very common feelings and a good therapist will expect them.
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