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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Poet on January 26, 2004, at 13:43:33
Hi,
I asked my therapist how I can get my husband to understand and accept that change in me is good for us. She acknowledged that yelling at him only makes him feel more threatened. Too bad because I'm good a yelling.
I'm supposed to be more aggressive but in a non-threatening way. When he says things like, you're getting manic again, I should say "I'm excited, not manic, I know how both feel and this is excitement."
I'm also to remind him that sometimes he says things that are meant to be supportive, but hurt. Example: I told him about something about my new job and he said "it's a wonderful thing." He says that all the time and thinks that I (and everybody else he says it to) understand that he means "great plan."
I told him that what he said and his tone of voice were unsupportive. He got mad, but caught on.
Give it a try, I know I am.
Poet
Posted by gardenergirl on January 26, 2004, at 14:39:08
In reply to Lookdownfish- maritial angst update, posted by Poet on January 26, 2004, at 13:43:33
Funny, I am working on shaping my husband's tone of voice as well. He sometimes can be really patronizing. I think he thinks he's funny, but when I am especially sensitive, I just want to tell him to...well, you can fill the rest in.
It's ironic how someone who is such a support can also be a source of bad feelings.
Takae care,
gg
Posted by DaisyM on January 26, 2004, at 15:19:04
In reply to Re: Lookdownfish- maritial angst update, posted by gardenergirl on January 26, 2004, at 14:39:08
My husband told me this weekend that he really wants to "be there for me" but he just can't see that anything is wrong. After all I'm not the one who is sick...and he doesn't "need this right now."
He also told me a friend of his warned him that "wives change when they are in therapy" so he should watch out for this.
It was a frustrating, intense conversation in which I ended up reassuring him, making it "all better" like always. PLEASE keep sharing how you are helping your husbands cope because I feel myself withdrawing from mine -- I'm not sharing what he can't handle.
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2004, at 20:16:38
In reply to Re: Lookdownfish- maritial angst update, posted by DaisyM on January 26, 2004, at 15:19:04
> I'm not sharing what he can't handle.
>Is that a bad thing? That's why my husband likes my therapist. ????
Posted by DaisyM on January 26, 2004, at 22:24:08
In reply to Re: Lookdownfish- maritial angst update, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2004, at 20:16:38
Don't you feel somewhat resentful of your husband though, if you can't tell him about how you feel and get some support?
We spent some time on this today because I told My Therapist about the conversation I had with my hubbie over the weekend. My Therapist wondered how I could approach the need for support with my husband especially since I'm working on trying to take emotional risks. He wanted to know what baby step I could take, and honestly, I couldn't name one. Not one. How cowardly am I??
It goes back, for me, in not trusting that people can handle "my stuff." I don't know what their response will be, I can't "control it" so I won't risk it. It was a frustrating, sad session mostly, especially when I had to admit how much I don't trust even my own husband. I'm upset with myself (again? still?).
*sigh* Maybe this is just isn't something I can do.
Posted by Medusa on January 27, 2004, at 2:29:41
In reply to Re: Lookdownfish- maritial angst update, posted by DaisyM on January 26, 2004, at 15:19:04
> PLEASE keep sharing how you are helping your husbands cope because I feel myself withdrawing from mine -- I'm not sharing what he can't handle.
>It's not your job to help your DH cope - it's your job to change in the ways you need to, and to stick to what you need to do through his weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. Resistance to change in others is a normal, healthy response. It's just the first stage - later stages are acceptance of and then support for the change.
I've seen several descriptions of the 'stages' of dealing with big, important changes in someone else. If I can find them, I'll post. But maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about?
Posted by lookdownfish on January 27, 2004, at 3:14:52
In reply to Lookdownfish- maritial angst update, posted by Poet on January 26, 2004, at 13:43:33
Hi Poet,
I like that. It's about being more assertive without yelling. Makes sense. I find that when I get angry and start yelling and throwing things, it means I will achieve nothing from the argument, because I'm immediately the guilty one for losing control of myself, so I have lost the moral highground. So why do I keep doing it? Why can't I learn that it doesn't work? Actually, I'm just having a look at a book at the moment called "The Dance of Anger". This talks about how we persist with ineffective strategies in order to maintain the status quo, and make our partner feel ok. A crass summary, but that's about as far as I've got. It's very interesting. Many thanks to fallsfall who recommended the book.
An update on me: I'm in a bit of a depressed slump at the moment, which hopefully I'm just starting to crawl out of. This means I have lost confidence and forget to do things, can't make decisions, panic about simple problems and feel I can't cope with my children. This gets my husband frustrated with me, although he is trying to be supportive. What I can't quite work out is whether the depressive slump is caused entirely by my marital problems, or whether I'm depressed anyway and this exacerbates the marital problems. It's probably a bit of both, and a vicious circle.
I have agreed with my husband, probably foolishly, that we will skip marital therapy for the moment, and see how things go. My therapist is very keen for us to do marital therapy, but she did give me some hope by saying that we would work on changes in me, and the changes in me could bring about changes in him. All a bit flaky, but here's hoping.
lookdownfish
Posted by gardenergirl on January 27, 2004, at 7:01:03
In reply to Re: Lookdownfish- maritial angst update » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on January 26, 2004, at 22:24:08
> Don't you feel somewhat resentful of your husband though, if you can't tell him about how you feel and get some support?
I'm sorry this was such a difficult session. At least processing the resentment and difficulty trusting, even your husband, seems valuable???
For me, I don't share a lot with my husband about my therapy. I just rely on him more for everyday support. Fortunately, he's pretty good at it...unless I ask him a computer question. Then, apparently, he thinks my hair color changes to blonde (with apologies to blondes everywhere.)
>
> He wanted to know what baby step I could take, and honestly, I couldn't name one. Not one. How cowardly am I??Not cowardly at all. Just not ready yet, and that's okay.
>
> *sigh* Maybe this is just isn't something I can do.I have faith in you!
gg
Posted by judy1 on January 27, 2004, at 11:28:04
In reply to Lookdownfish- maritial angst update, posted by Poet on January 26, 2004, at 13:43:33
I'm sorry if I don't understand the dynamics of your marriage (I don't visit this site that frequently)- but as someone who has done considerable damage during manic episodes, it was really, really important to do marital counseling. My husband had a lot of anger towards me and basically no trust (he had every right to feel that way). You mentioned mania, I am still in some denial when manic, and feel frustrated if I'm just happy and am accused of being manic. But I think a lot of that is fear on my husband's part, he's so afraid that if I am hypomanic that mania is around the corner and I'll damage us financially again. I guess I'm saying that there's a lot of issues when one spouse is bipolar, and a lot of work that has to be done to regain trust. If this is not pertinent to your situation, please forgive me- judy
Posted by pegasus on January 27, 2004, at 14:54:07
In reply to Lookdownfish- maritial angst update, posted by Poet on January 26, 2004, at 13:43:33
It seems like this is one of those things that works differently for every couple. But if it's any help, what my husband and I have settled on is that the day after a session, we have a "therapy report" where I tell him what I talked about with my therapist. It keeps him up on what I'm working on, and less threatened by the mysteriousness of it. Plus, it's given him some confidence in my therapist. His favorite part is that we have this one time during the week that I talk about my therapy, and then I really don't need to talk about it much other than that. So, he has some control over our communication about that. Also, then I give him a chance to give me a report about whatever he wants. It's actually a really sweet time for us.
I know this wouldn't work for everyone, and there are definitely things I leave out of my report sometimes, but it does seem to help me feel supported, and him feel supportive without being overwhelmed.
-p
Posted by gardenergirl on January 27, 2004, at 15:52:11
In reply to Re: Lookdownfish- maritial angst update, posted by pegasus on January 27, 2004, at 14:54:07
This seems like a really good plan. I may try to implement something like it with my husband. He isn't sure if he is supposed to ask me about therapy. I told him he didn't need to, but I didn't consider that he may have questions or anxiety about it.
gg
Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2004, at 18:10:25
In reply to Re: Lookdownfish- maritial angst update » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on January 26, 2004, at 22:24:08
> Don't you feel somewhat resentful of your husband though, if you can't tell him about how you feel and get some support?
>
No, I really don't. My husband is a fine man in many ways and supports us in the ways he can. But he's also limited (as we all are) and it's useless to expect what he's not really capable of giving. He has to accept the same of me. We can't be everything to each other, so we make the best of what we do have from each other.I do wonder sometimes if the therapy situation is some sort of emotional infidelity. Although it isn't that much different than the age old practice of having confidantes. I suppose the marital relationship has never been supposed to be the sole provider of one's intimacy needs.
Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2004, at 18:10:57
In reply to Re: Lookdownfish- maritial angst update, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2004, at 18:10:25
Posted by DaisyM on January 27, 2004, at 19:02:30
In reply to Re: Lookdownfish- maritial angst update, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2004, at 18:10:25
Now that is an interesting thought, isn't it? I agree that we can't expect people to be what they are not but maybe I'm just waking up to how much "not" there is in the people around me.
A wise friend (my friend who is a retired Therapist) asked me why I continued to seek support from the same people, and they "fail" me time and again. I said because it seemed to me these people "should" be able to be there for me (mother, husband, most frequently seen friend). She disagreed, saying, like you, that some people just can't and we love them for what they can do. They just aren't your support, etc.
I guess she is right but that means, in looking around, I really have no one. And that makes me really really sad. Of course, I have no one to blame but myself. And that just makes me mad at me.
My Therapist keeps saying my view of intimacy and support is skewed right now and may change as I figure stuff out and feel stronger within myself. I hope he is right otherwise he better be prepared to hang around for awhile. :)
I sound like you!
Posted by fallsfall on January 27, 2004, at 20:50:19
In reply to Therapy infidelity, posted by DaisyM on January 27, 2004, at 19:02:30
Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2004, at 22:13:45
In reply to Is the Forever Therapy Club starting up again??? (nm), posted by fallsfall on January 27, 2004, at 20:50:19
Well, as you know, I'm a charter member. :) I'll have my therapist joining yet!
Daisy, I don't have any of those people in my offline life, though I have good online friends who qualify as supportive. But I count on my therapist to fill that particular role in my life. Yes, sometimes it feels bad that I have to pay someone to do it. But on the other hand, it's an important function, necessary for my survival, and by paying someone, I get the best.
Posted by Poet on January 28, 2004, at 9:19:43
In reply to Re: Lookdownfish- maritial angst update » Poet, posted by judy1 on January 27, 2004, at 11:28:04
Hi Judy,
I probably should have said "anxiety" instead of manic, but my husband calls me manic, so it's easier for him to understand even if it's not accurate. I'm not bipolar, he just thinks I am, which in itself is frustrating.
I don't know if maritial counseling would work for us: I have major trust issues and he doesn't like to talk about anything personal, so I'm afraid it would be a waste of time and money. I see us just sitting there in silence and then getting in the car and fighting. Keep in mind I see the bad side of everything, so I may be way off base.
There's nothing to forgive, I appreciate your help.
Poet
Posted by judy1 on January 28, 2004, at 11:02:22
In reply to Re: Lookdownfish- maritial angst update » judy1, posted by Poet on January 28, 2004, at 9:19:43
well, I was certainly off-base about your disorder- but I can testify to the benefits of marital counseling. I can understand about worrying that it would be one-sided, but some men (as a generality) often hold in emotions. I think your husband may surprise you (mine sure did) once he's in the therapeutic environment. There was a lot of pent-up feeling on my husband's side that came out through a skillful counselor. I think the first session was a 2 boxer (kleenex).
hope it works out for you- judy
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