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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lyrical13 on December 21, 2003, at 9:36:29
In reply to Cutting, posted by J1960 on March 15, 2002, at 11:06:58
I found out recently that my sister is cutting herself...she showed me her arms..scars all the way up to her shoulders. She's in 9th grade now. Last year she started on meds for anxiety/depression/bipolar...I think they're still trying to figure out exactly what her dx is. I think bipolar. (I've had chronic depression for over 10 yrs and am now realizing that I'm probably Bipolar 2.)So...we do sister night every week...hang out together...we're both on meds and in counseling...though she just told me a week ago that she quit going to counseling. This concerns me. I asked her how long she has been cutting..she said since 6th grade! How did I not see this? She told me that you get really good at hiding it. She has a girlfriend who also cuts. She says she hasn't cut herself in a month..that makes me feel a little better. She also says it's like an addiction. She just gets this urge to cut herself. My therapist gave me an article written by a girl who cuts but is on meds that help her not want to cut as much so she doesn't do it as often. The article says that people who cut themselves often do it because they have difficulty expressing their anger/hurt/frustration etc. or they are in so much emotional pain it's a release or they are in so much pain they can't feel anything and cutting makes them feel something. I gave her a journal so she could try to write some things down. Hopefully that will help some...maybe help vent some of her hurt and frustration or something. What else can I do other than letting her know that I'm here for her and will always listen and always believe her?
Another concern..this article said that a high percentage of girls who cut have been sexually abused....I worry that maybe this happened to her and she is afraid to talk about it... maybe because it's someone we know and she doesn't think anyone will believe her? It might not be the case. Any advice? What can I do? I am really worried about her.
Lyrical13
Posted by judy1 on December 21, 2003, at 10:10:46
In reply to My sister is cutting...how do I help?, posted by Lyrical13 on December 21, 2003, at 9:36:29
she is so lucky to have you- please keep those lines of communication open. I don't know the percentage of people who SI that were abused (I think it's fairly high), but not all SIers were abused. It's fairly common at that age, some kids imitate each other- and once you get that endorphin rush from SIing, it becomes a difficult habit to break. How seriously does she do it- does she have to have stitches? Some people have been helped by meds, (I have not ). What has helped me is therapy and skills that compensate for the cutting. She needs a therp experienced with this, hopefully you can convince her. best of luck- judy
Posted by Lyrical13 on December 21, 2003, at 10:31:44
In reply to Re: My sister is cutting...how do I help? » Lyrical13, posted by judy1 on December 21, 2003, at 10:10:46
> she is so lucky to have you- please keep those lines of communication open. I don't know the percentage of people who SI that were abused (I think it's fairly high), but not all SIers were abused. It's fairly common at that age, some kids imitate each other- and once you get that endorphin rush from SIing, it becomes a difficult habit to break. How seriously does she do it- does she have to have stitches? Some people have been helped by meds, (I have not ). What has helped me is therapy and skills that compensate for the cutting. She needs a therp experienced with this, hopefully you can convince her. best of luck- judy
So far no stitches. The cuts look like they are about 1-2 inches long so she probably should have had stitches. No one knew about this until a couple months ago. Last week she showed me a place on her leg where she cut herself in 6th grade....it looked like she had cut repeatedly in the same area. When we had sister night a couple days ago I talked to her about going back to counseling. She's a very intelligent girl.. and from personal experience..I hated having things shoved down my throat and my mom trying to "fix" me (in my case, I got the help I needed..she was right..I did need help..what I resented was that she was just as messed up as me and wasn't getting help) Anyway...slight digression....all that to say..I try to just put the info out there, make suggestions and then let her decide for herself. She seems to respect and appreciate the things I say so hopefully this method of helping will be effective.Thank you for responding so quickly. What meds are you on? How do we find a doc with experience with this? She is on Prozac and Trileptal.. recently increased the Trileptal (she was sounding suicidal) and that seems to have helped. She is being followed by her pediatrician. I have checked up on him and according to 3 respected mental health professionals, he is very good at dealing with adolescent psych issues. However, I don't know how well-versed he is with cutting. Also, a couple months ago she thought her counselor was cool and she really liked her and now she can't stand her. She says she felt worse when she was talking to her. I have a couple thoughts on this. It's possible she didn't like what the counselor said (even though she was on target and maybe it's a little too close to home?) and I know that sometimes you feel worse before you feel better when you're in counseling (speaking from personal experience) It's also possible that this counselor is just not the right person for her.
anyway, I have to get offline now to go to a family Christmas thing. I'll check back later. Thanks again
Lyrical13
Posted by judy1 on December 21, 2003, at 11:33:38
In reply to Re: My sister is cutting...how do I help?, posted by Lyrical13 on December 21, 2003, at 10:31:44
The timing of your post is amazing. Yesterday, I drove a friend of my son's home from the movies (she's 13) and she showed me her scars from cutting. Her parents had found her engaging in that behavior, over-reacted and sent her to an in-patient program for a month. really bad move- now she no longer trusts them and is way too over-medicated (an AED, an AP and and AD). That is such an American trait, our shrinks medicate more than any other industrialized nation. I see this girl (like your sister) as someone going through a difficult adolescence, she also imitated a friend with the cutting, and her a parents made a typical error in thinking that SI is like suicidal behavior. It's not. I also cut at that age, stopped in college and re-started in my 30's. The only thing that helped me is therapy. If she no longer likes her counselor- for whatever reason- then she needs a new counselor. You can be a huge part of her recovery, obviously she trusts you, and you can stress the importance of treating her body well. I think the bipolar diagnosis is way over dxed in this sountry- it's like the diagnosis du jour. I have bipolar 1 disorder- during manic states I don't sleep for days (and am not tired) and get quite delusional. I accept the need for meds- depakote, zyprexa and klonopin- but I don't accept that a troubled teenager needs such potent medications when she's being a typical moody teenager and has a problem like SI that can be teated with the right therapist.
hope some of this helped- judy
Posted by henrietta on December 21, 2003, at 11:35:43
In reply to My sister is cutting...how do I help?, posted by Lyrical13 on December 21, 2003, at 9:36:29
I don't have a URL, but if you Google Marsha
Linehan you may find some useful information. Linehan's program was very helpful for my sister, who SI'd for years, but no longer does. Best wishes.
Posted by judy1 on December 21, 2003, at 11:53:29
In reply to Re: My sister is cutting...how do I help?, posted by henrietta on December 21, 2003, at 11:35:43
Posted by cubic_me on December 21, 2003, at 17:23:47
In reply to My sister is cutting...how do I help?, posted by Lyrical13 on December 21, 2003, at 9:36:29
Hi,
It sounds like you are doing all the right things, you're being a great friend and a great sister. She must trust you so much to be able to tell her.
i've cut since I was about 13, not all the time, but sometimes worse than others. We do get really good at hiding things. I told my boyfriend about it for the first time yesterday - he had no idea, and hes seen me naked for over a year (and my cuts weren't tiny....) It was a good idea you gave her the journal - i find one really helpful - but dont pressure her into writing in it if she doesnt want to. If you keep mentioning the therapy she might decide she wants to go back. With one of my friends who burns herself who didnt want to go back to therapy I basically said that we could go through it together and support each other etc, and that worked.
There are 2 really good websites on self injury that you might want to look at: www.psyke.org and www.secretshame.com
take care _me
> I found out recently that my sister is cutting herself...she showed me her arms..scars all the way up to her shoulders. She's in 9th grade now. Last year she started on meds for anxiety/depression/bipolar...I think they're still trying to figure out exactly what her dx is. I think bipolar. (I've had chronic depression for over 10 yrs and am now realizing that I'm probably Bipolar 2.)So...we do sister night every week...hang out together...we're both on meds and in counseling...though she just told me a week ago that she quit going to counseling. This concerns me. I asked her how long she has been cutting..she said since 6th grade! How did I not see this? She told me that you get really good at hiding it. She has a girlfriend who also cuts. She says she hasn't cut herself in a month..that makes me feel a little better. She also says it's like an addiction. She just gets this urge to cut herself. My therapist gave me an article written by a girl who cuts but is on meds that help her not want to cut as much so she doesn't do it as often. The article says that people who cut themselves often do it because they have difficulty expressing their anger/hurt/frustration etc. or they are in so much emotional pain it's a release or they are in so much pain they can't feel anything and cutting makes them feel something. I gave her a journal so she could try to write some things down. Hopefully that will help some...maybe help vent some of her hurt and frustration or something. What else can I do other than letting her know that I'm here for her and will always listen and always believe her?
>
> Another concern..this article said that a high percentage of girls who cut have been sexually abused....I worry that maybe this happened to her and she is afraid to talk about it... maybe because it's someone we know and she doesn't think anyone will believe her? It might not be the case. Any advice? What can I do? I am really worried about her.
>
> Lyrical13
>
>
>
Posted by Karen_kay on December 21, 2003, at 18:11:52
In reply to My sister is cutting...how do I help?, posted by Lyrical13 on December 21, 2003, at 9:36:29
I've also SIed for years, since I was about 16 and I am now 24. When I started therapy I was still doing it, but not admitting this to my therapist. (For some reason I don't always feel he needs to know things like this) But, as I began progressing in therapy and getting my moods under control (I'm dx with Bipolar Disorder I), I haven't had the urge as much. I'm not going to lie, I still want to sometimes, but I know that when I'm stressed out or hurting there are other things I can do (like take it out on my therapist, and that's my favorite :)
It isn't the fact that my therapist has taught me to "do" different things in times of crisis. It is the idea that I've learned on my own, and with his guidance that I'm injuring myself to express how I feel. Now, I journal and bring my journal to sessions and tell him that my day sucked. Or that he sucks. Or I just say what I want. And that is so much better than hurting myself. Using my voice is better than using a razor blade any day. (and my voice sounds better too!)
I would suggest that you speak with your sister about giving therapy another chance. Perhaps a different therapist may better suit her tastes. Just getting her feelings and thoughts out will help release some of the stress in her life. And be sure to support her. But, I don't have to tell you that. It sounds like you're doing a wonderful job already :)
Posted by Lyrical13 on December 21, 2003, at 19:29:58
In reply to Re: My sister is cutting...how do I help?, posted by judy1 on December 21, 2003, at 11:33:38
(an AED, an AP and and AD). . I think the bipolar diagnosis is way over dxed in this sountry- it's like the diagnosis du jour. - but I don't accept that a troubled teenager needs such potent medications when she's being a typical moody teenager and has a problem like SI that can be teated with the right therapist.
> hope some of this helped- judy
>
HI
first off...what is an AED? I got AP and AD but I couldn't figure that abbreviation out. Also, I don't know if you were talking about my sister or your friend's daughter or teens in general when you talked about BP being overdiagnosed...I agree that there are several dx's that are possibly way over-dx'ed (ADHD for one) but in my sister's case there are many other things going on. I think that a dx of Bipolar is probably accurate for her. There is a family hx (history) of mood disorders (I am 34 and I first started having serious problems in about 1989) We have at least one aunt and 2 cousins with problems with anxiety (there may be more but our family is full of "ostriches"...if they pretend that there is no problem then they think there IS no problem) Our dad is a workaholic and adult child of an alcoholic (another thing that isn't talked about in my dad's family) Her mother (we have different moms) openly favors our other sister and is constantly playing mind games..."jokes" that are really more cruel than funny. A couple years ago, Sarah passed out and they ran some tests on her thinking maybe she was diabetic...in the end they started thinking maybe panic attacks. She started out on meds for anxiety..until the depression started...major depression...another thing I didnt' realize was so serious until this year when my step-mom told me how many times she had to pick Sarah up from school because she was crying uncontrollably. There is quite a bit of teen crap she's going through...not to mention coming to grips/figuring out her sexual identity (she has been dating a girl for about 3 months now) She also has rages and is sometimes violent. Flies off the handle very easily. For a while there she always seemed so angry to me. She seems a little better now but is still quite irritable...she's actually always been rather irritable. Anyway, lots going on. I WILL continue to encourage her to go back to counseling.Perhaps you were talking about your friend's teen or something. My sis is on Prozac and Trileptal. Anyone have any experience with that combo?
Thanks for your response
Lyrical13
Posted by judy1 on December 21, 2003, at 19:42:41
In reply to Re: My sister is cutting...how do I help?, posted by Lyrical13 on December 21, 2003, at 19:29:58
AEDs are anti-epileptic drugs like depakote, tegretol, trileptal, lamictal, etc.- drugs that are used for bipolar disorder and epilepsy. Do you think the trileptal has helped your sister's irritability? It's hard to tell at that age (with hormones flying) if it's actually the medication or not. Since she has a familial history then that's an important factor, and since I don't know anything about her I was talking more about the 13 y.o in my life. Sexual identity is another biggie at that age, I'm really glad you're pushing the counseling.
take care, judy
BTW, my pdoc often says that alcoholics are people with anxiety disorders that are self-medicating (thinking about your family member). is your sister being given anything for panic disorder? I take klonopin (a benzo) for that and it helps a great deal along with CBT (cogntive behavioral therapy)-sorry I tend to abbreviate everything
Posted by Lyrical13 on December 21, 2003, at 21:08:36
In reply to Re: My sister is cutting...how do I help? » Lyrical13, posted by judy1 on December 21, 2003, at 19:42:41
No problem on the abbreviations...I use a lot of them too. Go ahead and use them. If I don't get them, I'll ask.
So..her Trileptal (which is actually a pediatric seizure med) would be an AED? Actually, I have seen a decrease in irritability, she's less sad, She hasn't missed school because she's crying so much and she seems happier overall. She has been irritable since birth. Very particular about everything and would have tantrums about the littlest thing. Don't get me wrong...she is also very thoughtful, loving and attentive. She's very intelligent and creative and she has an amazing ability to look beyond appearances and see what's inside the cover. For example, I work with kids with disabilities and she has come with me to work before. Her favorite student is a young girl with CP spastic quad with severe scoliosis, an extreme overbite, strabismus (crossed eyes)...physically she's a mess. Sarah loves her and says "she's so cute!"...it's true. When this little girl smiles it lights up the whole room. Sarah is thinking about working with this population as some sort of therapist (I am an SLP).
Anyway, I've just been looking at some websites for people who cut and reading lots of info on it and how to help. It has been very helpful. (someone who replied to my post suggested a couple websites..they were very helpful..thanks)
I am sending the links to my sister and to my step-mom. Maybe it will help both of them. My step-mom is very distressed and worried about her. She has been fairly proactive in getting her help. And she actually listened to me several weeks ago when I told her my sister needed to get in to see her doc pronto. (She was sounding suicidal) She was on the phone the next day trying to reach the doc and got her in to see him within a few days. (My dad has always said that psychology is a crock of shit and has always treated me like a hypochondriac.. I also have low blood sugar and endometriosis, psoriasis and allergies) He is very good at discounting feelings, not talking about things and lashing out at the nearest person (verbally) when things don't go right for him. S. has been saying that she "hates dad" and there have been a few conflicts recently. Of course, the family always looks at her as the bad guy. No wonder she's so angry and cuts. My brother (who unfortunatley is very much like my father...he lived with him while I lived with my mom) said that he thought Sarah was just cutting for attention. That really ticks me off.
anyway, I'm rambling again......
Thanks again for your help
L13
Posted by fallsfall on December 21, 2003, at 21:12:09
In reply to Re: My sister is cutting...how do I help? » Lyrical13, posted by judy1 on December 21, 2003, at 19:42:41
There are a couple of Youth Fiction books about cutting.
I read one that my daughter had called "The Luckiest Girl in the World". It talked about what cutting did for the character in the book, how it made her feel better. She goes into therapy, and group therapy, too, and the book explains about that. I thought it was really good.
There is another that we have in my library called "Cut". I haven't read that one yet.
Reading books like these could help her see that she's not alone, and also that therapy can be helpful. They also might help you and/or her parents...
I also agree about DBT being helpful (but I wouldn't put her in a DBT group of adults).
Let her know that you are on her side no matter what. That you don't judge her - but you do care. Maybe offer to sit with her if she has to talk to her parents about something - as moral support.
Good luck to you both.
Posted by pegasus on December 22, 2003, at 12:07:16
In reply to Teen books on cutting, posted by fallsfall on December 21, 2003, at 21:12:09
As a cutter also, I would be a little cautious about these books. I've found that, while I was very interested to read books about cutting, they also often inspired me to cut more. Same with the web sites. It's kind of a double edged sword. It's nice to know there are other people struggling like me, but sometimes it can bring up irresistible temptations to be even more self destructive.
I agree with the other people here that just being open to talking with your sis, without pushing her, might be the best thing you can do. Also, I've found that exploring other ways to communicate has been helpful. For example, I draw and paint, and journal, and talk to my therapist, etc. I have an agreement with my therapist that I can call or send email when things are getting bad. The secret shame web site has a link to a bulletin board, where SI folks talk to each other, and sometimes talk each other down from needing to cut so much. Again - there's a triggering aspect, so be careful. But sometimes just doing *something* to communicate all of the anger or whatever it is, is enough to let it go a bit.
Posted by cubic_me on December 22, 2003, at 15:30:33
In reply to Re: My sister is cutting...how do I help?, posted by Lyrical13 on December 21, 2003, at 19:29:58
PS. Your sis has done great not harming for a month. I congratulate myself on getting through a few days or a week sometimes!
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