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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by judy1 on May 9, 2003, at 22:46:24
http://www.wglasser.com/
Dr. Glasser just wrote a book called "Warning: Psychiatry Can be Hazardous to your Mental Health" and I agreed with a great deal of his theories. just wondering if anyone else is familiar with his work- judy
Posted by Dinah on May 9, 2003, at 23:55:23
In reply to Is anyone familiar with choice therapy?, posted by judy1 on May 9, 2003, at 22:46:24
I'm almost positive I read his book "Choice Theory : A New Psychology of Personal Freedom".
If I remember correctly, I really agreed with a lot of what he said. In fact, I don't know whether or not my therapist has studied the theory but he does operate on a similar set of beliefs, at least in part. Plus, it does fit my world view of free will and personal responsibility.
But I also think I recall that familiar sense of frustration that intellectual understanding didn't translate well into emotional understanding. And the familiar sense of self blame that I couldn't will myself better through thinking correctly.
It even sort of came up in therapy today. My therapist was expressing his frustration. He had explained something to me, I agreed in principle, and yet still I "chose" to make myself upset over it instead of letting it go. Yet, do other people really listen to something sensible, say "Oh, ok. You're right. I shouldn't feel that way." and then have their feelings obediently change with the insight? If so, then I am sadly lacking. At the very least, it takes a lot of repetition for me in various circumstances, and probably some positive emotional reinforcement. And even then I can't think myself out of some emotional difficulties. Not yet at least.
Posted by noa on May 10, 2003, at 7:53:44
In reply to Re: Is anyone familiar with choice therapy? » judy1, posted by Dinah on May 9, 2003, at 23:55:23
It sounds very existential (just based on the posts I am reading here--I haven't read the article). Which is fine, as I think that most people could use to be a lot more conscious of all the choices we make in our lives, and to take responsibility for what we do have some control over. However, I think that when it comes to mental health treatment, this choice approach is probably more suited for the so called "worried well" and even minor depressions and anxieties, perhaps, or overcoming reactions to life circumstances, or general life coping skills issues that could enhance mental health.
But with brain disorders, which many of us here have, I think it has MAJOR limitations.
That being said, I think, at least to some extent, it does seem like something that could be useful if a person with a brain disorder is stabilized and in remission, as part of therapy, but not exclusively. To build life skills and coping skills that either never developed, or were degraded, by the mental illness.
For me, I know that there are certainly ways in which thinking existentially in terms of choices is useful, but there are also so many factors beside conscious choice that are in play. For example, I cannot choose for my amygdala to be less reactive, but if medication can help control that, then over time, I can learn to recognize situations that trigger the flame up, and learn and practice strategies for changing how the reaction proceeds, and to soothe myself better and put a different "spin" on it all. But this involves: 1) biological treatment to try to reduce the propensity for the strong reactions, 2) education to understand the way the biology affects emotions, 3) some psychodynamic work to understand early influences in how I interpret situations and my biological responses, 4) cognitive work to identify triggering situations, break down the sequence of the reactions and identify ways to intervene by reframing, and self-soothing. THEN, perhaps, once I have a better handle on this and am able to put it into practice with some degree of reliability, THEN, perhaps the question of conscious choice seems useful.
Or, once in remission, I have had to look at a lot of my lifestyle and life skills issues that totally fell apart during my more severe episodes of depression, and to relearn some of them, and to examine factors that itnerfere with relearning them. Here, choice work is useful to some degree, integrated with other approaches. For example, if I am trying to relearn how to manage my time, then examining the choices I make with how I spend my time, is very useful. (But not exclusively. It is also important to understand what influences how I choose to spend my time, etc.).
Anyway, I haven't even read the article, so perhaps I should before I opine any more!!
Posted by Dinah on May 10, 2003, at 10:46:10
In reply to Re: Is anyone familiar with choice therapy?, posted by noa on May 10, 2003, at 7:53:44
Thank you, Noa. That was one of those posts I think I'll print out if you don't mind.
Since many of my problems are flaming amygdala related, I really enjoyed that breakdown of the steps needed to get that sort of problem under control. I see I still have some work to do. Or at least some organizing to do, instead of just blindly hacking away at the problem. As far as medication, has any helped you for that reactive amygdala?
(And next time, I'm going to ask my therapist why he's choosing to be frustrated by my stubborness.)
Actually, I suppose I'd better look through my overstuffed closet and check to see if I remember that book correctly.
Posted by noa on May 10, 2003, at 17:44:32
In reply to Re: Is anyone familiar with choice therapy? » noa, posted by Dinah on May 10, 2003, at 10:46:10
Hmm, which medication calms the amygdala. Heck if I know! Hehe. I take so darn many!
I suspect the ADs I take (Effexor and serzone) both help with the sensitivity thing. I think the fish oil is helping too. But all of this is just my guess. It is hard to separate out how the meds help -- is the calmer reactivity just part of the remitted depressive symptoms? Something separate? Dunno.
I think that SSRIs help with Social phobia because they calm the hypersensitivity, and are also disinhibiting. I do have a bit of social phobia--always have--but it (and anxiety in general) takes a back seat to depression as my most debilitating problem.
So, perhaps it is the SSRI ADs that help?
Posted by judy1 on May 10, 2003, at 20:37:59
In reply to Re: Is anyone familiar with choice therapy? » judy1, posted by Dinah on May 9, 2003, at 23:55:23
It sounds as if you have read it, but if you feel frustrated with lack of progress I think I remember something about the process taking up to 15 years:-). I guess I posted it because I get a feeling (certainly not from you or Noa) that some posters here are dealing with pdocs who don't value their client's personal responsibility and I have seen (in psych wards) a general sense of helplessness. I really do think his approach has a lot of value with even the most ill, it just takes a lot more time and patience on the professional's side. take care, judy
Posted by Dinah on May 11, 2003, at 10:20:14
In reply to Re: Is anyone familiar with choice therapy? » Dinah, posted by judy1 on May 10, 2003, at 20:37:59
lol.
Well, I've been with my therapist eight now. (Happy Anniversary!) And that does appear to be part of his repertoire, along with CBT and providing a corrective emotional experience, and probably a few other techniques I haven't picked up on yet. Oh, and patience. That's his big one. :)
Perhaps I'll get there yet.
I do think it's a worthwhile form of therapy. I just think it needs to be combined with meds and other things. Says the person who has dropped her Depakote (except as needed) and is now only on Klonopin on a regular basis, and Seroquel and Depakote as needed. I've come full circle I guess. sigh.
Posted by judy1 on May 11, 2003, at 22:07:58
In reply to Re: Fifteen years!!! :-O » judy1, posted by Dinah on May 11, 2003, at 10:20:14
8 years- that's great, you must have developed a lot of trust. actually, I just take klonopin on a regular basis (with the blessing of my pdoc) and all the other stuff when I have a bad episode. I don't miss the side effects at all. take care,judy
Posted by shar on May 27, 2003, at 1:24:34
In reply to Is anyone familiar with choice therapy?, posted by judy1 on May 9, 2003, at 22:46:24
Glasser has always been one of my most favorites! I believe he is the originator of Reality Therapy (and if he isn't, igonre this post) which I learned about .... goood grief, some 3o years ago!
Reality therapy was a rather "superficial" approach which focused on -- if you plan to live in the real world, we're gonna teach you how. So, if you see a pink elephant in the room, and you're the only one who does, then you know that's not "reality." So, keep it to yourself.
I liked the approach for myself because my dx is not one that includes real delusions and hallucinations. Thus, it was a great way for me to realize that my history accounted for a lot of what was going on, and that it didn't go on for many, many other people.
I loved the book Reality Therapy.
Shar
Posted by judy1 on May 27, 2003, at 13:04:47
In reply to Re: Is anyone familiar with choice therapy? » judy1, posted by shar on May 27, 2003, at 1:24:34
Hi,
He has been writing since the 60's and is the origintor of Reality Therapy which I think is based on Choice Therapy (or the other way around). Basically he claims there is no mental illness, even schizophrenia is based on relationships gone bad in the past, and that the only way to deal with problems is through improving present relationships. He asserts that there is no proof of brain disease in mental disorders (except, of course, diseases like Alzheimers) and hence no need for medications (I really liked that!) It's interesting that you discovered this so long ago, has his theories helped you in any way? I like focusing on the present and learning behaviors that will help me now, rather than visiting the past and getting distraught. Anyway, this is probably my latest obsession :-). take care, judy
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