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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on December 11, 2002, at 16:18:24
> I just feel like every day is disconnected...
Wow!! That is *exactly* how I feel in my less connected states. It's what I try to explain to others, without much success.
OK, I'm going out on a limb here to explain how I think therapy works with this, because while I know it does, and I sort of know how, I also think it will be hard to explain without my sounding really nuts.
Somewhere along the line, I used my dissociative skills to disconnect my feeling self from my intellectual self. I even know more or less when I did it. At some point in therapy, I came to the startling realization that the "me" I thought of as me was really an artificial construct (my own idiosyncratic way of describing it) created to deal with the world at a time when I felt completely unable to do so. I was totally at a loss when my therapist would ask me to keep a diary of my emotions. I would say "OK" or "upset", and that was about it.
As I got to trust my therapist more (and believe me, this took time) and as he continued to press me to find out exactly what I was feeling, I became aware that there was a layer to me that did feel. At first it was a dim awareness, and I did a lot of visualization and deliberately opening internal doors etc. to reach it. But slowly I became aware more and more of what I was feeling.
So at first, I might not realize for a week that I was upset about something, then another week to figure out what it was (if I ever did). Then later I knew immediately if I was upset, but it might take me a week to figure out why. Later maybe only a few hours. Currently I think I am at the point where I can figure out right away if I am upset and have an awareness of why, although there still seems to be some distance between my feeling and my awareness most of the time, if that makes sense. Of course, sometimes I take a few steps back and start over.
The way that therapy helped was that it gave me a place that I felt completely safe to feel what I felt. I didn't have to worry about the effects of my feelings on others. I could concentrate on delving deep inside of myself where I was still a feeling person. It involved a type of meditation to reach my feeling self. I still have the most success doing it within the therapeutic hour although if I concentrate I can do it outside of therapy.
The reason I couldn't have done this for myself is that I wouldn't have even realized that I was feeling without my therapist's gental nudging. And I wouldn't have felt safe enough to allow myself the vulnerability of feeling without my attachment to and complete trust in my therapist. Because when your feelings are as well defended as mine were, and you have dissociated most of your life, it just isn't easy to drop those barriers. And it took a lot of time in therapy. I don't think it's short term work.
If you want to try it yourself at home (and I still think it's best done therapeutically), you need to wait until you have the tiniest glimmer of feeling then focus and follow that feeling through meditation. It's hard to explain. I don't even know how to tell your therapist what you're looking for. My therapist understands now, but we've been years and years figuring it out and working on it (while also dealing with panic attacks, cyclothymia, OCD, and meltdowns. :) ) But I do know it requires the feeling of safety.
I don't know if your problems have the same source as mine. They certainly have similar characteristics, but I don't know if they work the same way. But this method is working for me, and I think the last few months of therapy have been enormously productive. And I just want the richness that fully living can bring.
Posted by bluedog on December 11, 2002, at 20:27:30
In reply to Re: On anger... » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Dinah on December 11, 2002, at 16:18:24
Hi Dinah
I have not had much contact with you through PB before but I always read your posts with great interest and I have over time come to understand that you have a very deep personal experience and understanding of therapy and the different therapy techniques.
I actually went to 4 or 5 therapy sessions recently with a clinical psychologist in my city but because I'm on sickness benefits at the moment I had to quit because I could no longer afford it.
I suffer from social anxiety, depression and CFS and I too have a strong (and uncontrollable) tendency to suddenly switch over into a dissociative state when I feel stressed, anxious or threatened (at parties my mind will suddenly drift off into the ether and my limbs will become heavy, numb and tingly - It is actually a VERY pleasant state to be in and I liken it to an almost spiritual experience. It's simply that POWERFUL). Of course the flip side to the pleasant feelings of dissociation is that my ability to have normal social interaction is suspended leading people to avoid me or simply view me as weird! This ultimately leads to feeling of deep depression once I come "back down"
Now my problem is that I actually go into a dissociative state with my therapist. I would feel myself going into a trance when she asked me certain questions about my past and I would no longer "see" my therapist sitting in front of me and all I could hear was her voice somewhere in the background. All I could "see" was the inside of my head and I was actually re-experiencing the emotions of bad events in my past (for example I saw my best friend drown when I was younger after he fell into water and I still remember just standing there completely frozen instead of running for some adult assistance....I was 6 years old at the time) I similarly went into this trance like state when I spoke of my lifetime bullying experiences with my therapist.
My therapist was actually quite concerned that I was going into this dissociative state during my therapy sessions and she felt that I may in fact have a form of undiagnosed PTSD. I always thought that my dissociation was a symptom of my social anxiety.
My question for you Dinah is this:-
Is it normal to dissociate during therapy sessions? I used to leave these sessions completely numb and I was not quite sure where she was heading with my therapy. I know I only had 4 or 5 sessions but when I go back to work and can afford it again do you think that I should recommence my therapy sessions and do you think that therapy could help me? At this stage therapy scares me to a degree and I don't know if I will improve if I continue with the sessions and whether I should just stick to my meds and reading "Feeling Good" by Br Burns?
I would very much appreciate your feelings on this issue.
thankyou
bluedog
Posted by Dinah on December 11, 2002, at 21:22:24
In reply to Re: dissociation during therapy???? » Dinah, posted by bluedog on December 11, 2002, at 20:27:30
Well, I'm no expert although I confess to reading a lot. I understand that dissociation during therapy is quite common. I frequently experience it myself. At first my therapist saw it as one of my schizotypal traits. He said I always looked like I was watching tiny angels dancing in the corner of the room. :)
Once he came to understand that I was dissociating, he started calling me back when necessary. There are also CBT techniques to combat it. Judy knows a lot about these. One is to tightly curl your toes. I tend to lightly scratch my arms or subtly pinch myself.
I think dissociation is just a skill that people happen upon. Once you've done it once and find it works you tend to repeat it. I'm guessing it only is a problem if it interferes with your life. It interferes with my life. Dissociation is often a symptom of PTSD, but I don't *think* it is necessary to have PTSD to dissociate. I think it's just a coping mechanism that people who have a natural ability for it use.
You might want to start trying the CBT techniques for grounding during dissociation along with the techniques for social anxiety. If you're able to change your life enough with self help techniques, you might decide not to go back to therapy. I've personally found it more valuable to do those things in the safe therapeutic environment, but that's me. I'm a huge chicken.
I'm thinking it's best to go in with clearly defined goals, although I'm not a great example of that. I went in for OCD related panic, and then I had a nasty postpartum depression and my brain just changed. I became cyclothymic and I find that therapy helps me to function in life on a minimal amount of meds (I don't care for meds).
This is probably more than you needed to hear, but I hope I've given you something that helps. :)
Dinah
Posted by bluedog on December 12, 2002, at 20:20:22
In reply to Re: dissociation during therapy???? » bluedog, posted by Dinah on December 11, 2002, at 21:22:24
This is the end of the thread.
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