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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 14 to 38 of 47. Go back in thread:
Posted by fayeroe on March 1, 2008, at 18:02:39
In reply to Kevin Rudd, posted by Sigismund on March 1, 2008, at 16:46:53
Double Wow! Yup, our government advocates torture...except for this administration!!
Posted by Sigismund on March 1, 2008, at 18:32:06
In reply to Re: Kevin Rudd » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on March 1, 2008, at 18:02:39
It brought tears to my eyes.
Isn't that what they say about fish, that the rot starts in the head?
It is so very important to have a government that sets a good moral example.
The fact that this kind of observation is now seen to be leftwing is extraordinary.
Posted by fayeroe on March 1, 2008, at 18:57:26
In reply to Re: Kevin Rudd » fayeroe, posted by Sigismund on March 1, 2008, at 18:32:06
are you saying that you are underwhelmed?
yes, Bush did say that Howard was a man of values, but you have to remember that he thinks that Cheney is a good shot!
Posted by Sigismund on March 1, 2008, at 18:57:29
In reply to Re: Kevin Rudd » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on March 1, 2008, at 18:02:39
Under our constitution, though you might not have realised it under Mr Howard, the Queen of Australia is the head of state and the Govenor-General is her representative in Australia.
We had a real moral example with Sir William Deane. (Sincere Catholic, strong sense of moral justice, zero self-promotion)
Mr Howard was in such a hurry to get rid of him that he put in an Anglican Archbishop, Peter Hollingworth, who immediately became embroiled in one of those sex in the churches scandles, and he had to resign.
Then Mr Howard put in a military man no one had heard of before or has since, and whose functions he could perform himself.
So that is what conservatism came to here.
There was an article in the papers here that looked at the difference between triangulation (Hawke, Clinton, maybe Keating) and wedge politcs (Howard, maybe Bush).
The fun thing with Mr Howard toward the end was that he ended up wedging his own side of politics.
Before the election he used global warming to set up an enquiry into nuclear power to wedge the ALP.
But it was too close to the election (who wants a nuclear power station next to them?) and weged his own side (Did we really need them? Maybe we could do something else?)But the guts of the article was that triangulation left you in control of the political agenda and wedge politics did not.
(Can't get a link I'm afraid.)In that sense I am perhaps wrong to say that the current US administration is reactive in nature.
Maybe Mr Howard was closer to Mrs Thatcher?
He certainly liked his culture wars.
He called it getting rid of political correctness.
Posted by Sigismund on March 1, 2008, at 19:00:30
In reply to Re: Kevin Rudd » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on March 1, 2008, at 18:57:26
>are you saying that you are underwhelmed?
For reasons that escape me I felt very angry.
Maybe I felt that I would get my moral lessons from somewhere else?
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 2, 2008, at 17:22:40
In reply to Re: I don't know how much more I can take!, posted by caraher on February 29, 2008, at 12:07:31
> A complete failure of empathy.
>
> Sigismund> no matter what happens in November we'll be receiving an upgrade...
>
> caraherPlease be sensitive to the feelings of others (such as supporters of the Surge and of Bush).
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're bad people.
I encourage anyone who has questions about this or about posting policies in general, or is interested in alternative ways of expressing themselves, to see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Sigismund on March 3, 2008, at 0:45:59
In reply to Re: please be sensitive » Sigismund » caraher, posted by Dr. Bob on March 2, 2008, at 17:22:40
What I was thinking about was that those on the receiving end of the surge are not foremost in the minds of those who support it.
In the same way that the (many) millions of Iraqis and Iranians who have died, at least in part because of the policies of the west toward the region over the decades, have not received our empathy.
Posted by Sigismund on March 3, 2008, at 1:01:42
In reply to Re: please be sensitive » Sigismund » caraher, posted by Dr. Bob on March 2, 2008, at 17:22:40
The lyrics to his new song are not that great, but the title is.
It is
'Who Are These People?'
Posted by fayeroe on March 3, 2008, at 9:33:32
In reply to Burt Baccarach, posted by Sigismund on March 3, 2008, at 1:01:42
> The lyrics to his new song are not that great, but the title is.
>
> It is
>
> 'Who Are These People?'You can't beat that!
I seldom watch the news as I prefer to read it on internet where I have some control and can leave a page when I get annoyed AND I've often wondered that myself, "who the hell are these ****ed people?"
>
>
>
>
Posted by fayeroe on March 10, 2008, at 20:46:24
In reply to Re: I don't know how much more I can take!, posted by fayeroe on February 29, 2008, at 14:55:45
The fighting and mudslinging is causing me to wish I could move to somewhere like Mexico. Hide away in a little village and fish for my supper!
Posted by Sigismund on March 11, 2008, at 17:29:08
In reply to Re: I don't know how much more I can take!, posted by fayeroe on March 10, 2008, at 20:46:24
>The fighting and mudslinging is causing me to wish I could move to somewhere like Mexico. Hide away in a little village and fish for my supper!
I wish I could avoid lots of the modern world entirely.
I have been reading a book (in part) about a wonderfully reactionary Harvard ethnobotanist (R.E. Schultz) who did not accept the result of the American War of Independance and voted for Queen Elizabeth in the US elections, could not abide the Kennedys and so on. It is possible he was so reactionary that he did not accept Christianity, at least his extrememly empathic relations with the American Indian people, interest in their use of plants (particularly ritual use) does suggest that.
The book is...
"One River" by Wade Davis
Posted by fayeroe on March 11, 2008, at 17:35:17
In reply to Re: I don't know how much more I can take! » fayeroe, posted by Sigismund on March 11, 2008, at 17:29:08
>
> I wish I could avoid lots of the modern world entirely.
>
> I have been reading a book (in part) about a wonderfully reactionary Harvard ethnobotanist (R.E. Schultz) who did not accept the result of the American War of Independance and voted for Queen Elizabeth in the US elections, could not abide the Kennedys and so on. It is possible he was so reactionary that he did not accept Christianity, at least his extrememly empathic relations with the American Indian people, interest in their use of plants (particularly ritual use) does suggest that.
>
> The book is...
> "One River" by Wade DavisThe book sounds very interesting and I will check it out.
Have I told you about how hard the Mormons are working to win over the Navajoes?Yeah! Huh?
They have mission centers all over and are working hard to convert the Indians away from their traditional beliefs. I find it very off putting! I could go into more detail, but will put that into an e.mail. :-)
Posted by Sigismund on March 11, 2008, at 20:08:19
In reply to Re: I don't know how much more I can take! » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on March 11, 2008, at 17:35:17
For both the Ika and Kogi the earth is alive. Every mountain sound is an element of a language of the spririt, every object a symbol of other possibilities. Thus a temple becomes a mountain, a cave a womb, a calabash of water the reflection of the sea. The sea is the memory of the Great Mother.
The life spun into being at the beginning of time is a fragile balance, with the equilibrium of the entire universe being completely dependent on the moral, spiritual and ecological integrity of the Elder Brothers. The goal of life is knowledge. Everything else is secondary. Without knowledge there can be no understanding of good and evil, no appreciation of the sacred obligations that human beings have to the earth and the Great Mother. With knowlege comes wisdom and tolerance. [......]
One is called to the priesthood through divination. As soon as a child is born a mama (an enlightened priest) consults the Great Mother by reading the patterns that stones and beads make when they are dropped in water in ceremonial vessels. Those who are chosen are taken from their families as infants and carried high into the mountains to be raised by a mama and his wife. There the child lives a nocturnal life, completely shut away from the sun, forbidden even to know the light of the full moon. For eighteeen years he is never allowed to meet a woman of reproductive age or to experience daylight. He spends his life in the ceremonial house, sleeping by day, waking after sunset to cross in the darkness to the mama's house where he is fed. He eats twice more through the night, once at midnight and again shortly before dawn. His food is prepared only by the mama's wife, and even she may see him only in the darkness. His diet is a simple one: boiled fish and snails, mushrooms, grasshoppers, manioc, squash and white beans. He must never eat salt or foods unknown to his ancestors. Not until puberty is he permitted to eat meat.
The apprenticeship falls into two distinct phases, each lasting nine years and thus mimicking the nine months spent in a mother's womb. During the first years the apprentice is raised as a child of the mama, educated in the mysteries of the world. He learns songs and dances, mythological tales, the secrets of Creation, and the ritual language of the ancients known only to the priests. The second nine years are devoted to higher pursuits and even more esoteric knowledge - the art of divination, techniques of breathing and meditation that lift one into trance, prayers that give voice to the inner spirit. The apprentice learns nothing of the mundane tasks of the world, skills best left to others. But he does learn everything about the Great Mother, the secrets of the sky and the earth, the wonder of life itself in all its manifestations. Because the initiates know only the darkness, they acquire the gift of visions. They become clairvoyant, capable of seeing not only into the future and the past, but through all material illusions of the universe. In trance they can travel through the lands of the dead and into the hearts of the living. Finally the great moment of revelation arives. After having learned for eighteen years of the beauty of the Great Mother, of the delicate balance of life, of the importance of ecological and cosmic harmony, the initiate is ready to shoulder his divine burden. On a clear morning, with the sun rising over the flank of the mountains, he is lead into the light of dawn. Until that moment the world has existed only as a thought. Now for the first time he sees the world as it is, the transcendent beauty of the earth. In an instant everything he has learned is affirmed. Standing at his side, the mama sweeps an arm across the horizon as if to say, 'You see, it is as I told you'.
(P. 57)
Posted by fayeroe on March 11, 2008, at 20:35:25
In reply to Since you seem interested » fayeroe, posted by Sigismund on March 11, 2008, at 20:08:19
I was ready to turn the computer off when the notification of your post came in my mail.
I clicked and came to read it. I didn't expect you to give me so much..thank you, thank you!
Much of what he writes is what I've learned from the Navajo Tribe. I am amazed that alot of it could be spoken to me by an elder at some time and place. (The Choctaws became very "Americanized" very early and I wasn't around the Cherokee tribe until I was grown.)
It is validating for me to learn that someone else, who doesn't live on a reservation, has spent so much time studying the ways of the Indians. Since I am light-skinned, I am viewed as being very eccentric due to my approach to the belief system that I am most comfortable with.
I don't want to sound silly and I know that you will understand me, my being part Indian means that this is more important to me than I had expected.
I am going to read it again and drift off to sleep picturing the dark cave, the womb and the Great Mother. (Did you know that the wife/mother is the spiritual provider for the Navajo tribe? She is the possessor of all of the answers for her family members)
Posted by Sigismund on March 12, 2008, at 2:20:27
In reply to Re: Since you seem interested » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on March 11, 2008, at 20:35:25
I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I was very moved when I read it, and am not sure why.
There's no question of truth or falsity with these things.
Perhaps I found the belief system, in its way, very life affirming, especially when compared to a world where money and (unjustified) feelings of superiority are all that matters?
Posted by Sigismund on March 12, 2008, at 2:39:10
In reply to Re: Since you seem interested » fayeroe, posted by Sigismund on March 12, 2008, at 2:20:27
>Perhaps I found the belief system, in its way, very life affirming, especially when compared to a world where money and (unjustified) feelings of superiority are all that matters?
I don't think it's that. It has something to do with the 18 years in the dark and seeing the dawn.
[Clearly (by conventional standards) it is cruel to children. Yet I believe our world we take for granted is impossibly cruel in ways we do not see.]
Maybe that?
Posted by fayeroe on March 12, 2008, at 15:24:57
In reply to No, posted by Sigismund on March 12, 2008, at 2:39:10
> >Perhaps I found the belief system, in its way, very life affirming, especially when compared to a world where money and (unjustified) feelings of superiority are all that matters?
>
> I don't think it's that. It has something to do with the 18 years in the dark and seeing the dawn.
>
> [Clearly (by conventional standards) it is cruel to children. Yet I believe our world we take for granted is impossibly cruel in ways we do not see.]
>
> Maybe that?
The Indians have ceremonies that blow my mind frequently, definitely unconventional, and still I understand the importance of the traditions for them. One instance would be the sun dance. First time I saw that, I almost passed out.I really loved the thought of the cave/womb development. It shows a committment to their spirituality that I feel can be sadly lacking in the land of televangelists, megachurches and the rest of that ****. (tomorrow i'll tell you how i really feel about organized religion)
>
>
Posted by Sigismund on March 14, 2008, at 16:37:58
In reply to Re: No » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on March 12, 2008, at 15:24:57
Only $40,000 a pop.
Howard at Harvard
From today's paper....
IN THE icy wastes of their remote alpine redoubt, the hard-core Howardistas keep the flame alive. The latest conceit of the ragged band around the camp fire is that the last election was actually a great victory. We are all conservatives now, they cry. Their fancy is that Howard's prime ministership so changed Australia's political, economic and social landscape that conservatism will be the natural order of things forever, whatever tricks the vile Labor socialists might get up to during their temporary grip on power.
The Hermit of Wollstonecraft (or The <uncivil word deleted>, as Alan Ramsey calls him; I am not sure which I like better) was waffling along much the same lines to students at Harvard on Tuesday.
His government had ended the "pointless debate about our identity" and fostered "a rather positive view about Australian history and Australian achievement," he boasted, as self-basting as ever.
"I think our sense of national pride is stronger now than it was in the 1990s, less ambiguous, and that's tremendously important."
There was no "pointless debate about our identity". There was a rational debate about monarchy and republicanism which Howard contrived to derail with his rigged referendum question back in 1999, much to the fury of Malcolm Turnbull, if you remember.
It is true, though, that there is a stronger sense of national pride. I, for one, am proud that fairness and decency have returned to our national affairs after an absence of 11 years.
Posted by fayeroe on March 14, 2008, at 16:57:20
In reply to Nice work if you can get it, posted by Sigismund on March 14, 2008, at 16:37:58
Wow! That is about all I can come up with after reading your post.
Delusion is in vogue right now.
Posted by Sigismund on March 14, 2008, at 17:00:48
In reply to Nice work if you can get it, posted by Sigismund on March 14, 2008, at 16:37:58
This made me laugh
>a rather positive view about Australian history and Australian achievement
Quite in the spirit of the age.
Posted by Sigismund on March 14, 2008, at 17:03:46
In reply to Re: Nice work if you can get it ))Fayeroe, posted by Sigismund on March 14, 2008, at 17:00:48
Of course no one (not even the bookies) dared hope that he would lose not only government but his own seat in Parliament.
Posted by fayeroe on March 14, 2008, at 17:06:31
In reply to National Pride, posted by Sigismund on March 14, 2008, at 17:03:46
After all you have kangaroos to distract you from your government.
We have r*dn*cks. With mullets.
Posted by fayeroe on March 14, 2008, at 17:10:35
In reply to And I used to envy Australia.... » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on March 14, 2008, at 17:06:31
> After all you have kangaroos to distract you from your government.
>
> We have r*dn*cks. With mullets.Can I say "hippies"? (no mullets, but strange hair at times) They are very closely related to "r*dn*cks" in my area. What about "alternative lifestyle"?
This could get to be fun, I could probably come up with these for at least an hour.
Posted by Sigismund on March 14, 2008, at 17:25:24
In reply to And I used to envy Australia.... » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on March 14, 2008, at 17:06:31
Has this kangaroo business been in the news?
(There has been something about it here.)
If we (as a country) really came to grips with living here and wanted to do something for the environment, we would eat them. Emus too.
We have some r*dn*cks. Especially around people of Middle-Eastern extraction (this has become a cliche here, and is perhaps with you too).
Our hippies have grown old and retired to places like here.
There are few ferals. They moved out when the property values went up. We are all going beige around here.
BTW, I saw "Crash" last night.
I shall have to watch it again to quite work out what happened.
It made me realise that I'm not used to more than one black person or couple per film.
Posted by fayeroe on March 14, 2008, at 20:43:51
In reply to It's been getting better since the election » fayeroe, posted by Sigismund on March 14, 2008, at 17:25:24
You got the first good laugh out of me today!
We eat "Bambi" and Gov. Huckabee still eats squirrels.
I don't know why you don't start a trend, open an emu and kangaroo cafe. "Kangaroo Cafe" has a certain catch to it, don't you think?
Actually, around this part of Texas, hippies are considered "fair game". Now in New Mexico, they were the "state bird". I must email you my favourite photo ever of old hippies. I took it in 1986. With my first Nikon, so it is a very, very legitimate photograph. :-)
Politics here are still very poor and very scary. I am still sick of the commercials and appalled that the Democrats are trying to kill one another off and ignoring what they should be doing to the other party. (trying to avoid a PBC)
I just read a book detailing the Andrea Yates story. It was very disturbing. You can google her. I can't go into details here about her case.
My daughter is a delegate in her county for the elections. She is more than excited! Her first big time political scene! I've been active for so long that I am almost jaded. I am going to the candlelight vigil next week on the anniversary of the start of the Iraq "war".
Let me know how Emu tastes. I am guessing it will be like eating a giant chicken!
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