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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ClearSkies on December 4, 2005, at 21:39:57
I am getting about 5 to 6 hours a night. It's 2 hours less than I used to get. I'm easily fatigued during the day. My meds are Cymbalta 60mg at bedtime, Lamictal 200mg at bedtime, Ambien 10mg at bedtime. In the morning it's my BC pill, Campral 666mg 3 x a day, a multivitamin, Evening Primrose Oil, and Chelated Magnesium (these last 2 for wicked PMS).
I am also prescribed up to .25mg xanax as need during the day. I find that as bedtime approaches, my mind speeds up and nothing seems to calm it down. I play meditating and soothing CDs, I wear a lavendar eye mask, I try (in vain) to be aware of my breathing, try to relax each part of my body in turn. By the time I've tried all this I'm ready to get up and start cooking breakfast.Any ideas?
Posted by lunesta on December 4, 2005, at 21:54:04
In reply to Sleep is elusive, posted by ClearSkies on December 4, 2005, at 21:39:57
Campral is probably interacting with both Cymbalta and Lamictal. Campral is a very complex med, it plays around with glutamate and gaba in werid way. Cymbalta will hit NE, SE and opioid receptors (which campral will inhibit) and the Lamictal will syerngize with the Campral to create fatigue.
That is my opinion on your situation. Med interactions, that are complicated. You may need to play around with them to figure it out.
Try not taking campral, see what happens..
Posted by ClearSkies on December 4, 2005, at 22:36:04
In reply to Re: Sleep is elusive » ClearSkies, posted by lunesta on December 4, 2005, at 21:54:04
Thanks. I find that the Campral is the most critical med I'm taking at the moment as it removes alcohol cravings and I'm a newbie sober person. Almost 100 days.
But I will talk to my pdoc about it, thanks so much!
Posted by lunesta on December 5, 2005, at 0:49:04
In reply to Re: Sleep is elusive » lunesta, posted by ClearSkies on December 4, 2005, at 22:36:04
there is another medicine called Revia (naltrexone) that can be used. You could try this.
Posted by Colleen D. on December 5, 2005, at 19:37:53
In reply to Sleep is elusive, posted by ClearSkies on December 4, 2005, at 21:39:57
CS, I really, really feel for you because I have been there myself. I cannot function on too little sleep. And I want to commend you on your sobriety as I hve not been too good at that lately.
Ambien does not work for me like it did the first time I tried it. I took it for a couple of weeks after I lost my first baby. My anxiety is totally too powerful for Ambien. My mind also races terribly at nighttime. Could you be building up a tolerance for it?
I can't listen to music; it keeps me awake. I can't stand a mask on my face at night. And I have tried the same relaxation exercise you do without success.
Have you ever tried a low dose of a TCA at night for sleep? There are three drugs that I like that give me a good 7 to 8 hours with no next day hangover effect...amitriptyline, doxepin and Remeron. I prefer the doxepin - cheap and effective. Perhaps your doc can tell you which drugs besides Ambien would be suitable for you to try keeping in mind any possible interaction with your current combo (no expert here.) My doc is always open to discussing viable new meds with me.
Wishing you zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz time,
Colleen
Posted by MidnightBlue on December 6, 2005, at 0:27:52
In reply to Sleep is elusive, posted by ClearSkies on December 4, 2005, at 21:39:57
Sounds familiar! Try counting backwards from 100 by 7's. And when you can do that well pick a different harder number to start from. You can also go down the alphabet and name veggies or fruit. Anything you have to search for. It helps a bit.
Posted by ClearSkies on December 6, 2005, at 6:51:40
In reply to Re: Sleep is elusive » ClearSkies, posted by MidnightBlue on December 6, 2005, at 0:27:52
So far I'm having limited success with 10mg Ambien and .25mg Xanax to calm my racing thoughts. I see my p-doc next week and will ask about TCA's. I am really reluctant to change any other meds now that they are actually working!!!!
I'll let you know what develops.
Counting sheep,
CS
Posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2005, at 19:43:48
In reply to Re: Sleep is elusive, posted by ClearSkies on December 6, 2005, at 6:51:40
How do you manage to function? Last night I could not sleep for more than an hour at a time. So I took extra valium and that did not work. I know it was from worry. But how can the mind be so powerful? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by ClearSkies on December 7, 2005, at 7:28:11
In reply to Re: Sleep is elusive » ClearSkies, posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2005, at 19:43:48
I went to see my dentist because my TMJ has been really bad, in addition with the problems getting to sleep. By the end of the day, my jaw is tender to touch and my eyebrows hurt!
He has referred me to an accupuncturist - yes, my dentist did! as he acknowledged that there is a more involved problem going on than just my teeth, or jaw. He gave me a temporary splint that's used for whiplash patients and I had *immediate* relief from the ear-blood pounding. My cheeks became flushed as the circulation to my jaw suddenly improved. He's referred 29 patients to this man and he's had 100% success. He told me to think positive thoughts as I'm trying to sleep, about how I am going to heal and be OK. He thinks that having my muscles clenched for the entire day due to anxiety, these other problems are being created. He wants me to try the least invasive approach to getting this resolved instead of jumping with a new nightguard, or bite adjustment, or oral surgery. He wants me to call him on his cell phone tomorrow and tell him how I'm feeling.
When I left the office I was just about weeping with relief. OK, so I have a dentist that I love and trust. This is totally bizarre as I've had my best panic attacks in the dentist's chair. This is a completely different experience.
I slept last night without the xanax. With the temporary splint in, and 10mg Ambien, it was an uninterrupted night. It was sweet and restful.
I'm calling the accupuncturist today,
ClearSkies
Posted by zenhussy on December 7, 2005, at 12:36:02
In reply to Interesting development, posted by ClearSkies on December 7, 2005, at 7:28:11
best wishes for positive results from acupuncture. for the past several years it has been an intergral part of our healing plan.
it isn't a cure-all and it depends upon the acupuncturist and their approach to TCM (traditional Chinese medicine) and Western medicine. we've known more success stories with acu than not however most ppl used acu as an adjunct to their current therapies and meds.
good luck and from someone who spent the past eight weeks with raging insomnia we feel your pain from lack of sleep.
zzzzzzzzz wishes and restful acu thoughts.
acu helped with our sleep when we were able to go twice weekly for sessions. due to PTSD and past stressors once weekly usually didn't "last" longer than a day or two. that changed after a few months of the acu and lowering a benzo and continued therapy.
Posted by ClearSkies on December 7, 2005, at 15:05:59
In reply to Re: Interesting development » ClearSkies, posted by zenhussy on December 7, 2005, at 12:36:02
Thanks for the headsup, Zen.
I have used accu as treatment in the past:
once from my GP from the National Health in England (yes you read it here first!!) as a diagnostic tool for my early-morning migraines, which he then advised me was prob'ly a dental issue (don't things go 'round and 'round??); and
when I worked in a downtown area next to Chinatown, and my headache pain led to to accu treatment. I was very young (18) and not really listening to the entire treatment plan, as I just wanted to feel better enough to party some more!
Ah, youth.Thanks for your thoughts. I will give a full report!
CS
Posted by Gee on December 7, 2005, at 22:24:03
In reply to Re: Interesting development » zenhussy, posted by ClearSkies on December 7, 2005, at 15:05:59
Dentists can be the best. It was my dentist who figured out why I had been sick for a month. My doctor had never seen anything like it.
What bite appliances do you use? I have one now, but it's killing my teeth
Posted by ClearSkies on December 8, 2005, at 7:25:27
In reply to Re: Interesting development, posted by Gee on December 7, 2005, at 22:24:03
Right now I am using an NTI, a device that snaps on to the upper anterior teeth, and prevents the molars from coming into contact and engaging the jaw muscles. Every time I get my teeth cleaned my dentist checks the guard and makes any necessary adjustments. I wear through the plastic pretty alarmingly, with deep grooves developing twice a year or so.
This latest problem seems to be happening because I'm clenching my jaw all day long, so the muscles are sore and inflamed by the end of the day.
As a temporary measure I'm using an Aqualizer, a device that has two water-filled balloons that sit on the molars and cushion the contact. It's allowing my muscles to rest and I can talk with it in my mouth, though I sound a bit Kirk Douglas-ish.ClearSkies
Posted by gardenergirl on December 8, 2005, at 7:36:29
In reply to Re: Interesting development » ClearSkies, posted by zenhussy on December 7, 2005, at 12:36:02
Hi zen,
I'm wishing for some accupuncture right now for the muscle spasm in my upper back. It's just not getting better, even with massage. :(Hope you're doing well.
gg
Posted by Gee on December 8, 2005, at 22:26:05
In reply to Re: Interesting development » Gee, posted by ClearSkies on December 8, 2005, at 7:25:27
I have an NTI device as well. Everytime I'm back home I have to get mine checked because I wear through it so fast. I've only had it since June and they've already had to put harder plastic on it, and I've worn through that as well. It's getting now so that my back teeth are touching together again when my jaw slides over a bit.
What are you getting instead of the Aqualizer?
Posted by ClearSkies on December 9, 2005, at 7:23:44
In reply to Re: Interesting development, posted by Gee on December 8, 2005, at 22:26:05
I will probably get a device that is a full palate guard and has both soft and hard plastic. The dentist is going to see what the accupuncturist says and we'll coordinate treatment.
Another headached this morning. I am going on my 8th week. Argh!CS
Posted by Gee on December 9, 2005, at 19:17:22
In reply to Re: Interesting development » Gee, posted by ClearSkies on December 9, 2005, at 7:23:44
I hope acupuncture works! I know how frustrating it can be
Posted by ClearSkies on December 13, 2005, at 22:03:48
In reply to Re: Interesting development, posted by Gee on December 9, 2005, at 19:17:22
OK, so He had his hands inside my mouth as he identified the muscles in my jaws that were overly tight and tense. Pressed into each pressure point with exquisite pain, sustained for a count of 10. Alternated both sides of the face with this pressure pointings. Very quickly I felt my cheeks becomed warm and tingly as blood started to circulate in the areas. He identified some areas in C1 and C2 that were involved, and adjusted those, no problem there.
Then the accupuncture with spots on my hands, across my forehead, my sinus on either side of my nose, the jaw area where the pain seems to be emanating from. Laid down in a darkened, quiet room with soothing music played. I had an enormous panic attack, and did my yoga breathing through it which worked to distract me.3 more sessions and he says I'm done. It does feel much beter. Good not to feel preoccupied about how my head is feeling.
I have made an emotional and mental connection with this TMJ problem happening during my perimenopause and the 20-year bout of acne along my jaw line that begain in earnest with puberty, It's the same pain, the same preoccupation. There feels like more and better answers this time around.
ClearSkies
Posted by zenhussy on December 21, 2005, at 3:05:45
In reply to First session went really well., posted by ClearSkies on December 13, 2005, at 22:03:48
>OK, so He had his hands inside my mouth as he identified the muscles in my jaws that were overly tight and tense. Pressed into each pressure point with exquisite pain, sustained for a count of 10. Alternated both sides of the face with this pressure pointings. Very quickly I felt my cheeks becomed warm and tingly as blood started to circulate in the areas. He identified some areas in C1 and C2 that were involved, and adjusted those, no problem there.
wow. sounds like rapid response to his adjustment. that's fantastic.
>Then the accupuncture with spots on my hands, across my forehead, my sinus on either side of my nose, the jaw area where the pain seems to be emanating from. Laid down in a darkened, quiet room with soothing music played. I had an enormous panic attack, and did my yoga breathing through it which worked to distract me.
if your acupuncturist isn't using points in the eye region (sides of nose kinda count) how about using a flaxseed eye pillow? many out here use them for their patients. the music, the dark, usually a heat lamp on feet, and an eye pillow when possible created relaxation and sleep many times over our treatment history using acupuncture.
>3 more sessions and he says I'm done. It does feel much beter. Good not to feel preoccupied about how my head is feeling.
for sure. what a good feeling to have a professional who is able to help one return to feeling "more normal".
>I have made an emotional and mental connection with this TMJ problem happening during my perimenopause and the 20-year bout of acne along my jaw line that begain in earnest with puberty, It's the same pain, the same preoccupation. There feels like more and better answers this time around.
it is good to hear you sounding more positive and self aware about the connections you're looking at once again.
hope the next three visits are as relieving and insightful as this one was. here's hoping for no panic attacks next time!! (have had panic attacks during acupuncture in the past....once even removing all needles into the sharps container and getting up to walk around room to shake off the confined feeling that the panic attack brought on...ugh)
good for you for the yogic breathing to get you through.
Posted by ClearSkies on December 23, 2005, at 9:24:58
In reply to Re: First session went really well. » ClearSkies, posted by zenhussy on December 21, 2005, at 3:05:45
Interesting as my therapy and the accuptuncture/deep tissue treatment seem to be coming to a head (hehehe) in acknowledging an enormous fount of rage. It's all capped off in my head, and expressed in my teeth grinding, sore jaws, migraine headaches, panic attacks, anxiety... everything, as they say, is connected.
I'm happy that one type of therapy has led deeper into another, because it seems I have some relief all around in these discoveries. Not an easy journey but so worth it.
Posted by ClearSkies on December 24, 2005, at 13:51:13
In reply to Re: First session went really well. » zenhussy, posted by ClearSkies on December 23, 2005, at 9:24:58
Oooh. When I turn my head something goes twang!! and from my jaw to the top of my head is an exquisite sour tasting pain. I started to cry after my last appointment, a spontaneous leaking from my eyes, no physical pain involved.
This is very strange but I want to see it through.
Posted by zenhussy on January 4, 2006, at 3:15:44
In reply to It feels like I sprained something, posted by ClearSkies on December 24, 2005, at 13:51:13
> Oooh. When I turn my head something goes twang!! and from my jaw to the top of my head is an exquisite sour tasting pain. I started to cry after my last appointment, a spontaneous leaking from my eyes, no physical pain involved.
> This is very strange but I want to see it through.yah. previous rounds of treatment with acu have often had some weird sessions in there along with the relieving ones.
acu is very connected to the emotions in our case and often brings about unexpected reactions like spontaneous laughter or tears.
current choice of treatment includes something that is contraindicated with acu so must wait until finished before resuming acu treatments. really missing the needles. dreaming about it at times even.
may your treatments continue to bring relief and support.
Posted by ClearSkies on January 4, 2006, at 7:07:21
In reply to Re: untwanged yet? » ClearSkies, posted by zenhussy on January 4, 2006, at 3:15:44
Last treatment he "cleaned my gutters", relieving the stress that had been building up. I've been more or less tranquil since then, not so prone to outbursts of anger.
Still danged if I can figure out where all the energy in my jaw is coming from. It's a mystery of my little universe. I have lots of theories, just testing one at a time really.
I'll keep you posted.
Hope you get needles back in you soon,
CS
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