![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by runner01girl on July 1, 2006, at 16:30:01
If you're a Christian, please answer me. I thought that I became a Christian when I was 11, but now that I think about it, I have doubts and sometimes even wonder if God, the Bible , and Jesus is real. Now I'm afraid that if I die I might not go to heaven. How do you know if you're a Christian. I said the sinner's prayer, but still am not sure if I'm saved. A little bit aof doubt means that you don't have total faith, so does that mean that you can't go to heaven and aren't really saved. Will someone help me straighten out my thoughts?
Thanks, Runner01girl
Posted by MidnightBlue on July 2, 2006, at 23:55:23
In reply to faith and doubt, posted by runner01girl on July 1, 2006, at 16:30:01
Hi Runner01girl,
From what you have said, I think you are a Christian. You don't have to have perfect faith without any doubts to be "saved."
It is very easy to doubt God and wonder whether or not you will go to heaven when you are depressed or going through a rough time. I know, because I have had some of those same feelings.
Faith is more than how you FEEL about something, it is a choice. And you've already made that choice, to have faith. I hope this helps some!
Hugs,
MidnightBlue
> If you're a Christian, please answer me. I thought that I became a Christian when I was 11, but now that I think about it, I have doubts and sometimes even wonder if God, the Bible , and Jesus is real. Now I'm afraid that if I die I might not go to heaven. How do you know if you're a Christian. I said the sinner's prayer, but still am not sure if I'm saved. A little bit aof doubt means that you don't have total faith, so does that mean that you can't go to heaven and aren't really saved. Will someone help me straighten out my thoughts?
>
> Thanks, Runner01girl
Posted by Jost on July 3, 2006, at 21:54:57
In reply to faith and doubt, posted by runner01girl on July 1, 2006, at 16:30:01
Runnergirl, many of the greatest Saints and Holy people of the Christian faith went through periods of doubt and even straying away from God.
St. Augustine and St. Theresa are two who come to mind.
The struggle with doubt and the attempt to answer questions of how to understand and justify faith inspired many great theological writings. These were not only abstract questions, but were written because of doubts that all believers face.
Don't condemn yourself, but rather know that you're trying to answer the questions. Many have had doubts, and times when loss of faith disturbs them.
Accept that answers may not come right away. Maybe you can find inner peace by accepting struggle, which may bring you to a deeper belief.
Jost
Posted by chinchilla1 on July 4, 2006, at 9:42:34
In reply to Re: faith and doubt » runner01girl, posted by Jost on July 3, 2006, at 21:54:57
Hi, here's a quote from an Anglican (Church of England) bishop that I like:
"The act of faith is a constant dialogue with doubt." Bishop J.A.T. Robinson
The Gospel of Mark also has the father of a posessed boy telling Christ, "I believe, help my unbelief!"
St. Augustine is also credited with using that quote as a prayer.
I find that examples like this help me when I feel that my faith is too small.
Chinchilla1
Posted by Dinah on July 7, 2006, at 13:58:30
In reply to faith and doubt, posted by runner01girl on July 1, 2006, at 16:30:01
The faith of a child is a beautiful thing. But many people, certainly not all, have a crisis of faith along the way to gaining the faith of an adult, which is equally as beautiful, in its own way.
Posted by rayww on July 7, 2006, at 20:44:51
In reply to faith and doubt, posted by runner01girl on July 1, 2006, at 16:30:01
There is a pathway between doubt and faith that is always there. Pathways are made for walking.
You can take a step toward faith by exercising it, or you can take a step toward doubt by not exercising faith. Faith in God is here for the benefit of man, to use to get closer to God, and to bless others. Faith is alive and doing very well, but it sits dormant until we pick it up and walk with it. Faith is the power that leads us to salvation. There is much more to understand about faith in God that I can explain here, but if you would like to exercise a portion of your faith to try to learn more about it, here are a few New Testament scriptures that talk about faith and salvation. I hope this gives you some help.
Posted by Declan on July 18, 2006, at 18:24:37
In reply to faith and doubt, posted by runner01girl on July 1, 2006, at 16:30:01
The interesting thing is not whether it's true, but whether it animates your life. I don't think the Nicene Creed is true, but Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven was in front of us, here and now, and we do not see it, which sounds right. It is natural to ask whether it is true, but it's not the most interesting question. In other parts of the world where religion is more entertaining and belief is perhaps understood less literally (Hindus, Buddhists), I don't think that problem arises so accutely.
Declan
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 18, 2006, at 19:01:48
In reply to Re: faith and doubt, posted by rayww on July 7, 2006, at 20:44:51
> Neither is there salvation in any other
Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to put down the beliefs of others, could you link to something different?
But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
You might want to consider asking another poster to be your "civility buddy" and to preview your posts before you submit them your reply before you submit it.
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 29, 2006, at 0:02:03
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » rayww, posted by Dr. Bob on July 18, 2006, at 19:01:48
> Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to put down the beliefs of others, could you link to something different?
Sorry, but since you haven't, I'm going to block you from posting. You're still free to email me, though, and if you rephrase by email before your block is up, I'll unblock you.
Bob
PS: I'm trying out a new system:
previous block: 8 weeks
period of time since previous block: 65 weeks
uncivil toward a particular individual or group: yes
particularly uncivil: no
different type of incivility: no
clearly didn't understand PBC and made effort to reply: no
provoked: no
uncivil in multiple posts at same time: no
already archived: noIf we take 65 weeks, divide by 10, and round down, that's a reduction of 6 weeks. If we apply that to your previous block, that's 8 - 6 = 2 weeks. And if we triple that, that's 6 weeks.
Posted by finelinebob on August 14, 2006, at 21:47:11
In reply to faith and doubt, posted by runner01girl on July 1, 2006, at 16:30:01
Hi runner01girl,
You know, all forms of Judiasm, Christianity and Islam essentially teach that we worship the same God. And no one, even within denominations of subdivisions of divisions of each branch, can agree on what the proper way to worship is.
Personally, I think that faith has little to do with religion. Your religion might teach you how to worship, what you can do, what you cannot do; but all these are means of "proving" your faith. Different paths, same goal. Again, personally, I think they all fall short, because faith for me lies beyond proof.
Maybe I'm saying that faith, in a sense, is truly "blind". It's a "trust fall", if you know what one of those are. I believe in a God that is the essence of love and forgiveness, and I cannot see such a God "dropping" me when my time comes.
And the only way I've come to such an understanding is by questioning my faith.
I have no proof that God exists, that any one holy book is true, that any teacher had all the "message" and that the "message" that teacher had has been passed to us faithfully. Given all the different translations of the Bible, Christians can't even agree among themselves of that last point. I do not know, nor can I prove, that God is loving, that God is forgiving, that God even exists. But I have faith in all of that. Proof is for science and math and logic. Faith is for matters of the spirit, of the soul, and faith is all I believe I need.
I don't know if any of that helps, but maybe this will: questioning your faith is good, but not good enough. You cannot question then give up. You have to pursue that doubt, find its roots. Maybe you'll find a weed; maybe a flower. Either way, you cannot find an answer to your doubts if you fear them too much to turn the tables and chase them down. However you do it, you need to just do it.
Posted by 10derHeart on August 16, 2006, at 23:01:02
In reply to Another non-Christian, posted by finelinebob on August 14, 2006, at 21:47:11
That was a wonderful post, finelinebob. Thanks so much for taking the time to share those wise thoughts here. We share many of the same beliefs, yet I can't imagine being able to articulate them quite like that.
I've no doubt your post will support, help and encourage many posters reading here.
Posted by finelinebob on August 17, 2006, at 2:00:16
In reply to Re: Another non-Christian » finelinebob, posted by 10derHeart on August 16, 2006, at 23:01:02
And thank you for the kind words. Of course, any BPS OCD PTSD ADD such as myself immediately needs to see what he or she did right. ;^)
I guess if I could go back and add anything, it would be this:
Questioning your faith is in a sense a search for Truth. Most of the time, we confuse that with looking for the truth, for which we believe we require proof.
Ask any informed scientist, tho, and you'll find that science isn't based on truths and it may not even be able to address anything of the Truth. Science is based on falsification, not verification ... we root out falsehoods until we find something we cannot find fault with at that moment, but it isn't expected to be true. Science is also based on underdetermination. A good scientist knows we will never be able to fully explain existence through science (alone).
Back to faith and doubt. What strengthens my faith is when all the proofs I can obtain fall short, often far short, of the truth at the least, and of Truth whatsoever. If you can proof for your faith -- well, this is just my lil' ol' humble opinion -- I think you're asking the wrong questions or looking in the wrong place.
Posted by muffled on August 29, 2006, at 21:54:13
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » rayww, posted by Dr. Bob on July 18, 2006, at 19:01:48
> > Neither is there salvation in any other
>
> > http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?type=words&last=salvation&help=&wo=checked&search=salvation&iw=nt&tx=checked&af=checked&hw=checked&sw=checked&bw=1
>
> Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to put down the beliefs of others, could you link to something different?
>
> But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
>
> You might want to consider asking another poster to be your "civility buddy" and to preview your posts before you submit them your reply before you submit it.
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
***So like we supposed to rephrase the BIBLE? GAAAAACK!
This is an ancient text.
Very very ancient.
So like, we not allowed to quote stuff out of the Koran either?
Or nay Buddist texts either?
HUH??????????
BURN the books I say.
Yeah, I find this a huge sticking point in the bible.
Sucks, totally.
Dunno WTF to make of that statement.
But it IS a part of Christian religion.
I truly DO NOT understand WHY you please rephrased that post unless you playing some weird game.
The post IS NOT putting down the beleifs of others.
This is a part of Christianity. This post proly only puts down Christians, not others.
I DON"T GET THIS BLOCK AT ALL.
Please explain.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 30, 2006, at 9:43:17
In reply to HUH?Bob? P.E. (please explain?) » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on August 29, 2006, at 21:54:13
Hi muffled,
I redirected your post to the admin board since it's about the policy, and I replied to it there. Here is a link to your post there.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060826/msgs/681450.htmlThanks,
gg
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Faith | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.