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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jdgjdg on February 19, 2004, at 22:13:05
Has anyone else had experiences with religious/spiritual abuse? If so, how do you deal with your spirituality currently? I grew up in a very hateful church with a terrible preacher. He told me I was bad and I was going to hell all the time when I was a child and teenager. I grew up feeling shameful and guilty. Anytime I go to church or try to read the bible at home, I feel overwhelming guilt and remorse. Even though I know I did nothing. To this day, I cannot set foot in a church(even for a wedding) without having a panic attack. I really feel a need to grow spiritually and would like to be part of a healthy church family someday. Does anyone have any suggestions that may help me overcome this? I have tried christian counseling, EMDR, and Exposure and Response Prevention.
Posted by rayww on February 20, 2004, at 1:22:59
In reply to religious abuse, posted by jdgjdg on February 19, 2004, at 22:13:05
I was once told that any person who tried to make another feel bad about themselves was anti Christ because it is so opposite to every single thing he stood for. I have never even once in my whole entire life been made to feel anything less than divine by my religion. In fact we are constantly reminded of our divine inherant potential.
If you think about your spirit who do you think you are? Is your spirit happy and lively, or solemn and sad? I think everyone's spirit is their light side, it's the physical part that tends to drag us down. Try to separate your physical from your spiritual self, and then try to comune with God through your spirit. After all, religion is about God, not man. What's that scripture that says something about "Let not man put us under"?
http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=%22let+not+man+put+asunder%22&search.x=15&search.y=6
Posted by tabitha on February 20, 2004, at 16:36:30
In reply to religious abuse, posted by jdgjdg on February 19, 2004, at 22:13:05
Hi. It shows strength that you want to reconnect with your spirituality and a faith community after such a negative experience. I'm not sure if you are wanting to heal within a similar tradition, or are open to something very different. I just had a thought that if the Bible and church buildings trigger your phobia, then how about trying a tradition like Zen meditation practice that looks nothing like what you're used to? Or some kind of nature-based spirituality, a new age group.. something radically different.
Posted by jdgjdg on February 20, 2004, at 19:51:03
In reply to Re: religious abuse » jdgjdg, posted by tabitha on February 20, 2004, at 16:36:30
Thank you very much. Those are both very good suggestions. Has anyone heard of the Unitarian church? I have heard they are very accepting and their philosophy is based on love and not fear and judgement.
j
Posted by Karen_kay on February 22, 2004, at 19:26:58
In reply to Re: religious abuse, posted by jdgjdg on February 20, 2004, at 19:51:03
My friend was just telling me about Unitarians the other day. She went to church there as a child and young adult. She said they openly accept anyone from any background. I asked her aobut attending a service, but she didn't call me Sunday morning. I'm very interested in their faith and practices as well. Any first-hand experience would be appreciated...
Posted by Simus on February 23, 2004, at 1:47:33
In reply to religious abuse, posted by jdgjdg on February 19, 2004, at 22:13:05
It's sad, but true, that there have been many abuses throughout the history of the Church. Many leaders, who don't seem to experience the love of God for themselves, have misrepresented Him to their flocks. How sad that they grow up believing that God wants to merely point out their sinfulness & leave them there, feeling condemned! That is NOT the message of Christianity.
This is the message of God, also called the Gospel (or Good News), as understood by the Christian Church for over 2,000 years [NOTE: No one, not even God, forces anyone to believe or accept this message. Everyone is free to accept or reject this message. But this is the message of the Christian Church, & it's being stated here to contrast the condemning message that some "Christians" have falsely given.]:
First, that there is a heaven; it's a real place. And it's a free gift. Heaven can't be earned, & it's not something we deserve, because...
Man (meaning mankind) is a sinner. Not just because of the wrong things we do, but because we're born in a sinful state. We inherit this sinfulness from our parents, & it goes all the way back to the beginning of mankind. We're born being separated from God. (Ever notice how you never have to teach a child to say "no" or to be selfish? It comes very naturally.)
And here's the problem: You see, God is a merciful God; He loves us. He doesn't want to punish us. But... God is also a just God, & He must punish our sin.
And here's the solution: Jesus Christ is the infinite God-Man. He's 100% God, while also being 100% man. He was sent by the Father for two things: to live the perfect life, & to die on our behalf. He died on the cross, paid the penalty of our sins, & purchased a place in heaven for us.
Here's how to apply it to our life: by Faith. Not mere head knowledge. It's not enough to "know" that Jesus is the Son of God; even the demons know this, & they tremble, but they're not in heaven. Saving Faith is also not temporal faith; it's not the kind of faith we can store away "in the closet" until we experience a crisis & have to pull it out. Saving faith is trusting in Jesus alone to restore us to a relationship with God.
This is the message of the Gospel, the Good News. It's not "you're a sinner & God hates you & wants to send you to hell." That's condemnation; God doesn't condemn, but the enemy does. It's "yes, you're a sinner, but God loves you so much He sent His Son to take your punishment so that you can be with Him forever." This is what the followers of Jesus have believed since He walked this earth. This is what He commanded that we tell the world: that there is hope.
Let us then fearlessly and confidently and boldly draw near to the throne of grace (the throne of God's unmerited favor to us sinners), that we may receive mercy [for our failures] and find grace to help in good time for every need [appropriate help and well-timed help, coming just when we need it]. Hebrews 4:16 (amp)
God bless, we are praying for you.
Posted by 64Bowtie on February 23, 2004, at 17:43:10
In reply to religious abuse, posted by jdgjdg on February 19, 2004, at 22:13:05
>Anytime I go to church or try to read the bible at home, I feel **overwhelming guilt and remorse**.
Do you envision an obligation to the image of that preacher? If I discover an obligatory connection, I change the vision of that person (object) and the "overwhelming guilt and remorse" are extinguished, mostly forever.
...a simple visualization technique. I learned it from a mentor. I wonder If I have given you enough information in order for you to employ this technique. Please let me know.
Rod
Posted by rayww on February 23, 2004, at 20:07:06
In reply to Re: religious abuse » jdgjdg, posted by Simus on February 23, 2004, at 1:47:33
> It's sad, but true, that there have been many abuses throughout the history of the Church. Many leaders, who don't seem to experience the love of God for themselves, have misrepresented Him to their flocks. How sad that they grow up believing that God wants to merely point out their sinfulness & leave them there, feeling condemned! That is NOT the message of Christianity.
>> Man (meaning mankind) is a sinner. Not just because of the wrong things we do, but because we're born in a sinful state. We inherit this sinfulness from our parents, & it goes all the way back to the beginning of mankind. We're born being separated from God. (Ever notice how you never have to teach a child to say "no" or to be selfish? It comes very naturally.)
>
> This is the message of the Gospel, the Good News. It's not "you're a sinner & God hates you & wants to send you to hell." That's condemnation; God doesn't condemn, but the enemy does. It's "yes, you're a sinner, but God loves you so much He sent His Son to take your punishment so that you can be with Him forever." This is what the followers of Jesus have believed since He walked this earth. This is what He commanded that we tell the world: that there is hope.(me)
Isn't it abusive to teach a child he is a sinnner? I have raised 8 children and have twice that many grand children. I have never once thought of any of them as a sinner, and we too are Christians who believe in and worship Jesus Christ. Children are to be reverenced and protected because of their innocence.The words to these two songs express how I think Christians should and most do feel toward their children:
I am a child of God
and He has sent me here
Has given me an earthly home
With parents kind and dear.Lead me, guide me, walk beside me
Help me find the way,
Teach me all that I should do
To live with Him some day.http://people.uleth.ca/~anderson/hymns/301.htm
------------Dearest children God is near you
Watching or' you day and nighthttp://people.uleth.ca/~anderson/hymns/096.htm
Music is of the spirit, not the intellect. We can learn much about who God is through music. If you don't feel like praying, listen to or sing a hymn. Hymns are prayers.
http://people.uleth.ca/~anderson/hymns/193.htm
rayww
> And here's the problem: You see, God is a merciful God; He loves us. He doesn't want to punish us. But... God is also a just God, & He must punish our sin.
>
> And here's the solution: Jesus Christ is the infinite God-Man. He's 100% God, while also being 100% man. He was sent by the Father for two things: to live the perfect life, & to die on our behalf. He died on the cross, paid the penalty of our sins, & purchased a place in heaven for us.
>
> Here's how to apply it to our life: by Faith. Not mere head knowledge. It's not enough to "know" that Jesus is the Son of God; even the demons know this, & they tremble, but they're not in heaven. Saving Faith is also not temporal faith; it's not the kind of faith we can store away "in the closet" until we experience a crisis & have to pull it out. Saving faith is trusting in Jesus alone to restore us to a relationship with God.
> >
> Let us then fearlessly and confidently and boldly draw near to the throne of grace (the throne of God's unmerited favor to us sinners), that we may receive mercy [for our failures] and find grace to help in good time for every need [appropriate help and well-timed help, coming just when we need it]. Hebrews 4:16 (amp)
>
> God bless, we are praying for you.
>
>
------------Let us all join in prayer for one another.
ray
Posted by Simus on February 24, 2004, at 1:24:46
In reply to Re: religious abuse » Simus, posted by rayww on February 23, 2004, at 20:07:06
> Isn't it abusive to teach a child he is a sinnner? I have raised 8 children and have twice that many grand children. I have never once thought of any of them as a sinner, and we too are Christians who believe in and worship Jesus Christ. Children are to be reverenced and protected because of their innocence.
The word "sin" is actually an old archery term meaning, "missing the mark". That is exactly what sin is, missing the mark. To be without sin is to be perfect. The only one who ever walked this earth without sin was Jesus. "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are–yet was without sin." Hebrews 4:15 But for a Christian, sin is not a death sentence. "Let us then fearlessly and confidently and boldly draw near to the throne of grace (the throne of God's unmerited favor to us sinners), that we may receive mercy [for our failures] and find grace to help in good time for every need [appropriate help and well-timed help, coming just when we need it]." Hebrews 4:16 (amp) There shouldn't even be any feeling of condemnation for a Christian. "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus" Romans 8:1 But the Bible is clear that Christians do need to recognize sin, repent, and turn from it.
I absolutely adore my children. We have a wonderful, close relationship. But they, like me, are not without sin. We make mistakes, we recognize them, we make it right, then we move on. I would be severely remiss as a Christian parent to knowingly teach my children only the "comfortable" parts of the Bible. My awesome respect for the Lord gives me a great awareness of my responsiblity to teach my children the whole Bible, nothing added and nothing omitted.I am struggling now with how to answer your question. You ask if it isn't abusive to teach a child that they are a sinner. The Bible is so clear that we are all sinners saved by grace. So ultimately, I would have to believe you are asking if it is abusive to teach children the whole Bible. In my case, no, that isn't abuse. (The original poster did however experience severe emotional abuse and I by no means want to belittle that. My heart and prayers still go out to that person.)
Posted by rayww on February 24, 2004, at 8:17:41
In reply to Re: religious abuse » rayww, posted by Simus on February 24, 2004, at 1:24:46
I see your point, but isn't it still nicer to teach a child that
"I am a child of God and he has sent me here, has given me an earthly home with parents kind and dear, lead me guide me walk beside me, help me find the way, teach me all that I must do to live with him some day." That is basically stating the same thing, (we are all sinners) only reversed isn't it? It infers that a child needs to be taught correct principles by his mother and father in order to live with God again some day. In the Mormon church it is basic to our belief that a child is capable of understanding right from wrong at the age of 8, if he or she has been taught correct principles. Therefore, we baptize at the age of 8.The Bible teaches very clearly, as you state, the importance of faith, repentance, baptism, and of course obediance to the commandments of God.
Posted by Simus on February 24, 2004, at 12:00:55
In reply to Re: religious abuse » Simus, posted by rayww on February 24, 2004, at 8:17:41
I guess I don't know what would be nicest. I believe we should speak the truth in love (strong emphasis on love). My children have been taught the Bible and Bible principles (age appropriate, of course) since about preschool age, by many means: church, Christian school, Sunday School, Bible School, through Christian music (and we can't forget VeggieTales - gotta love Larry and Bob). Of course, raising children in this manner can backfire on a parent. I can't get away with anything now. LOL
As far as the age 8 milestone, I will have to agree to disagree with you on that. Many churches seem to disagree on that issue (when to baptize, when to give first communion, etc.) I see learning right from wrong as a lifelong process. I know some five-year-olds who have more "right from wrong" understanding that some of adults. When we understand right from wrong on a specific issue, regardless of the age, the Bible says we are accountable and responsible at that point. I don't personally believe that a person should be baptized or take communion until they understand what they are doing and why they are doing it. Most children don't have that understanding before age 8, but some do. Some don't even have that understanding for some time after 8. But I guess it is a fair age to pick if just one must be picked.
This is the end of the thread.
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